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Old Jan 24, 2012, 01:54 PM   #26
dba7dba
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Originally Posted by FloatingBones View Post
That's fair. But it does show that AAPL is willing to front large capital investments to diversify its suppliers. While those parts (allegedly) are not ready for the (rumored) iPad 3, they may well show up in future products.
My point is having all the $$$ in the world doesn't guarantee you can pick and choose parts supplier whenever you feel like it.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 02:09 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by dba7dba View Post
My point is having all the $$$ in the world doesn't guarantee you can pick and choose parts supplier whenever you feel like it.
The investment hasn't panned out -- yet. It's way to early to judge the value of the investment. All we can really report at this point is that AAPL is willing to use their accumulated cash on hand and make big bets.

Nothing is a certainty in the marketplace. Who would have bet 5 years ago that Samsung Electronics would get their lunch handed to them -- by AAPL?

I can't wait to hear the FY 2012 Q1 results later today!
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 02:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by FloatingBones View Post
AAPL has succeeded in separating the high-profit areas of consumer electronics from the commodity parts. Samsung has not -- while they sell consumer electronics, the lion's share of their numbers come through commodity parts. And many of Samsung's consumer electronics (e.g., smartphones) are using commodity operating systems.

That is part of why Apple's market capitalization is far higher than Samsung's.
While I own a few shares of Apple and own Apple products I have mixed feelings about the huge profit margin on their products. And A4/A5 isn't exactly commodity parts as Samsung is the exclusive maker.

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Originally Posted by FloatingBones View Post
The investment hasn't panned out -- yet. It's way to early to judge the value of the investment. All we can really report at this point is that AAPL is willing to use their accumulated cash on hand and make big bets.

Nothing is a certainty in the marketplace. Who would have bet 5 years ago that Samsung Electronics would get their lunch handed to them -- by AAPL?

I can't wait to hear the FY 2012 Q1 results later today!
No what's really amazing is Samsung at one point (per quarter or per year not sure) made more $$$ than top 9 Japanese electronics makers (including sony) combined.

Apple pays vendors to expand manufacturing capacity (which you call investment) while Samsung expands its own manufacturing (which is investment imo).

The story of how Apple makes more profit with higher market capitalization should be tempered down with what Samsung deals with.

Profit:
Samsung builds own factories, trains its workers, pays for their salary (not slave wage of course), and does most of this in S Korea. What does Apple do? Of course taking the route with LOWEST possible cost and passing on the cost to Foxconn. Now which would you prefer to see for your nation?

Market Capitalization:
Big deal is made about high market capitalization of Apple. You know a lot of that has to do with the extra media coverage. NOT a day goes by without some US newspaper/magazine/blog covering something about Apple. That drives people to look into and buy stocks of Apple. That's not bad in itself but that's a fact.
Samsung is at real disadvantage as they are not officially traded in US and it's not an American firm. But let's assume Samsung were an American company and I bet it would have just as good if not higher market capitalization compared to Apple. What company has a shipyard that builds half-billion dollar floating oil platforms? What company makes smartphones that are just as good as iPhone WHILE also making the core parts like cpu/display/ram.

Yes Apple has big profit and high market capitalization that you say Samsung can't match but look in more and it's not all what it seems.

Last edited by dba7dba; Jan 24, 2012 at 02:42 PM.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 04:27 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by george-brooks View Post
another in a long string or reports where Apple not only comes out at the top of the list but also has grown significantly where others are shrinking. How close are we getting to total world domination??
"We" are not any close to world domination than we were before - I think it's safe to assune that neither you nor anybody else here owns a significant share of Apple or even works for the company. Just owning one of their toys doesn't count.

Besides, when you look at those numbers, very obviously the group naned "Others" very clearly owns the place...
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 06:45 PM   #30
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re original article

whoa - aapl eating all the silicon now

used to be wintel back when i used to suit up for the clean room
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 06:51 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by PlaceofDis View Post
this just illustrates to me that apple needs to start their own plants for making semiconductors and other pieces of their products. there are added costs to buying from someone else, but keeping it an in-house thing should help reduce costs which we could only hope would eventually be passed onto the consumers, but probably not.
Moving in house is not necessarily cheaper and even if it was, it's highly doubtful it would result in any savings for the consumer. Just like Apple tells consumers what they'll want from a product before they even know it, Apple tells people how much they have to pay for it. No incentive to drop prices.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 07:47 PM   #32
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lol isn't it funny how companies have a laugh at Apple then gasp and cling on tight as they are left behind.

eg. adobe laughing at the fact that flash was bad for mobile devices. A year later they say no more development to flash on mobile devices!! They completely changed their attitude toward it. If only they listened to Apple from the beginning.

eg. Ballmer, calling the iPad an oversized iPod toy that won't sell. First day it earned more than Ballmer can count to. Three years later it is the most selling product in Apple and rises them to the top.

eg. Samsung... oh wait I shouldn't go there. Too many Apple haters here :P

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winni View Post
"We" are not any close to world domination than we were before - I think it's safe to assune that neither you nor anybody else here owns a significant share of Apple or even works for the company. Just owning one of their toys doesn't count.

Besides, when you look at those numbers, very obviously the group naned "Others" very clearly owns the place...
even if Apple was dominating. That is not Apple's fault. It is all the competitors not trying hard enough to sway consumers back to them. If I am not mistaken 10 years ago the computer industry was much more dominent to Windows than it is now. It is much more evened out now imo.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 10:01 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by dba7dba View Post
While I own a few shares of Apple and own Apple products I have mixed feelings about the huge profit margin on their products. And A4/A5 isn't exactly commodity parts as Samsung is the exclusive maker.
Apple provides the expertise of the chip's design. Samsung provides the manufacturing expertise -- precise manufacturing, but still commodity manufacturing. Big difference.

Quote:
Apple pays vendors to expand manufacturing capacity (which you call investment) while Samsung expands its own manufacturing (which is investment imo).
They are both investments.

Quote:
Big deal is made about high market capitalization of Apple. You know a lot of that has to do with the extra media coverage.
Nonsense. It has to do with the bottom line. Apple's profits already beat Samsung's. If growth continues, Apple's revenues will beat Samsung's within the next 24 months.

Samsung has chosen to be in a bunch of commodity industries. That's not good or bad, but it does mean that the value of their business is far less than Apple's.

Quote:
But let's assume Samsung were an American company and I bet it would have just as good if not higher market capitalization compared to Apple.
Again nonsense. It is really simple: Samsung's problem is that they generate far less profit for unit of revenue.

Quote:
What company makes smartphones that are just as good as iPhone WHILE also making the core parts like cpu/display/ram.
That's pretty simple. Nobody does.

If Samsung had a superior phone (and a superior phone ecosystem), they could demand the price that Apple gets for their iPhone. But they can't. For better or worse, Samsung sells a phone with a commodity OS -- and commodity margins.

Quote:
Yes Apple has big profit and high market capitalization that you say Samsung can't match but look in more and it's not all what it seems.
It is exactly what it seems. Apple commands the lion's share of profits for smartphones. Samsung and others are fighting for the scraps.
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Old Jan 24, 2012, 10:59 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
When it comes to company size market capitalization means very little (not to shareholders, obviously). Samsung is a much larger company in terms of revenues, number of employees, number of patents etc.
Actually, Samsung is NOT a much larger company in terms of revenues -- not any more. If you multiply Apple's FY12 Q1 revenue of $46.33 by 4, you get a number that well exceeds Samsung's gross revenue last year. While Apple's yearly revenue won't get to $185B, it will be close.

Apple has either passed Samsung Electronics in terms of revenues, or they're damn close.

@lilo777, you clearly picked the wrong day to make that claim!
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 06:31 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
When it comes to company size market capitalization means very little (not to shareholders, obviously). Samsung is a much larger company in terms of revenues, number of employees, number of patents etc.
Why does people keep comparing number of patents from Samsung with the number from Apple? Do Samsung's patents on microwave ovens and washing machines and fridges count when comparing against a computer-centered company?

And that without even going into the whole "patents are bad" mess. The thumb rule seems to be "samsung patents = good, apple patents = bad".

Similar thing with the number of employees. Are they going to fight hand-to-hand or something?

(and if so, will Samsung use korean copies of japanese martial arts? <ducks, runs> )
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 10:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mijail View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
When it comes to company size market capitalization means very little (not to shareholders, obviously). Samsung is a much larger company in terms of revenues, number of employees, number of patents etc.
Why does people keep comparing number of patents from Samsung with the number from Apple? Do Samsung's patents on microwave ovens and washing machines and fridges count when comparing against a computer-centered company?
Hear, hear. Apple clearly realizes far more revenue per employee than Samsung Electronics. If Samsung does have far more patents, then Apple also realizes far more revenue per patent than Samsung does. If you substitute "profit" for "revenue" in those last two sentences, then the ratios are even more pronounced. And if you look at Apple's skyrocketing FY12 Q1 revenues and profits announced yesterday, the comparisons become even more lopsided.

I really have no idea what point lilo is trying to make.

Quote:
(and if so, will Samsung use korean copies of japanese martial arts? <ducks, runs> )
Taking the comment at face value, I must disagree with you here. Korea's martial arts are highly evolved and quite capable.
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Old Jan 25, 2012, 11:19 AM   #37
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Taking the comment at face value, I must disagree with you here. Korea's martial arts are highly evolved and quite capable.
Sorry, it seemed too good a pun to let it pass. You know, Samsung + copying + the eternal hapkido & aikido debates...
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