Peace
Cancelled
If this leads to fewer teachers down the road it most certainly will remove some student/teacher interaction.
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North Carolina School District Has Success With MacBook Air Initiative
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If this leads to fewer teachers down the road it most certainly will remove some student/teacher interaction.
Those increases do indeed seem impressive, but before commenting on them I would like to know for certain that the increases are in fact real and not manufactured. Here in the UK there is an almost annual news story to the effect of "highest level of graduation in history" or something along those lines - on the surface it would certainly seem that kids are getting smarter, but the truth is that the standards are simply being dropped year-on-year.
The sad reality is that kids these days (at least in the UK) are probably *less* educated than those from 5 or 10 years ago, and this pattern continues back for a good number of decades. It's the same all the way up into higher education. Where once a degree was not only impressive, but very hard to achieve, they are now incredibly commonplace to the point of being expected. Even a Master's degree barely raises an eyebrow these days. Is this because we've raised a whole generation of geniuses? Take a look at the world and decide for yourself, but I would say "no".
It's a shame, but it's no doubt true that academic standards and requirements for success in general have been undergoing a decline in many areas over the years, so I would like to be certain that the quoted statistics being referenced here are actual "true" improvements in grades as opposed to a simple shifting of the goalposts.
Then please tell me the rest of the story. As I've said before I am completely open to hearing why programs like these are bad.
However, all I've heard from people who disagree with programs like these are personal opinions and gut feelings. Show me some facts that say otherwise and I'll happily listen and take them into consideration.
maelstromr
macrumors 6502
You mean the vague and entirely unsubstantiated insinuation that the school district is lying about the benefits seen from the program? The completely objective numbers like graduation percentages and student retention? 🙄
My macbook is better at defending cruddy teachers. Maybe one of the new macbook airs can run your union for you?
jayducharme
macrumors 601
I don't like the tradeoff either, not only the large number of layoffs but the large class sizes. Technology is not a bandaid that can fix the problems with education in this country. You can't mass-produce learning. What I think is the most significant (and barely mentioned) aspect of this article is that the school and community actually funded this effort. What's missing from education in the U.S. is financial support. I teach at a community college and less than half our funding now comes from the state, even though our enrollments increase every year. We're continually asked to do more with less. But it reaches a point where this trend collapses on itself.
I'm all for "smart" classrooms and bringing interactive technology to students. But that can never substitute for excellent teachers who inspire their classes. Who cares if a teacher uses a blackboard or an iPad? A good teacher is a good teacher. You can't force a teacher to use a medium that doesn't fit his or her teaching style. That would be like telling Bob Dylan, "Sorry, but from now on you can only make songs by sampling and looping." (That's one reason unions are important, sorry Steve.)
I have the same high standards I've always had when I teach. What's changed are students' expectations. A lot of students now seem to think that if they show up (at their convenience) they deserve an A. They're genuinely shocked when they turn in shoddy work and get a poor grade. When their mindset finally changes so that they realize that good grades are a result of hard work, then maybe education will begin to reverse its decline in this country.
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Talk to someone who did it
I went to a technology highly several years ago. We were one of the first with the Vice President coming to see what were were doing. We received millions in funding form the Gates Foundation and other non-profits because this was going to be the "future of education". Guess what. It did well for a few years as the school attracted top talent who were interested in having a computer at every desk. Eventually the allure wore off as every kid had as much tech at home as the school provided. Test scores dropped and the school fell apart. I learned some great stuff about technology during my time there, and I had some fantastic opportunities in technology that in part helped to make me a very high income earner today. Having said that the school was a failure in my opinion. Teachers relied on technology to interest students and not the curriculum. I graduated with a fantastic technology education, but I lacked a basic high school education in math and sciences that left me struggling in college. This is not the future of education. The future of education is parents who do their jobs and trust their teachers to do theirs. It's parents who take the technology away from their children until they do basic learning. iPads are not going to save this country's education system. Only basic parenting can.
I went to a technology highly several years ago. We were one of the first with the Vice President coming to see what were were doing. We received millions in funding form the Gates Foundation and other non-profits because this was going to be the "future of education". Guess what. It did well for a few years as the school attracted top talent who were interested in having a computer at every desk. Eventually the allure wore off as every kid had as much tech at home as the school provided. Test scores dropped and the school fell apart. I learned some great stuff about technology during my time there, and I had some fantastic opportunities in technology that in part helped to make me a very high income earner today. Having said that the school was a failure in my opinion. Teachers relied on technology to interest students and not the curriculum. I graduated with a fantastic technology education, but I lacked a basic high school education in math and sciences that left me struggling in college. This is not the future of education. The future of education is parents who do their jobs and trust their teachers to do theirs. It's parents who take the technology away from their children until they do basic learning. iPads are not going to save this country's education system. Only basic parenting can.
hobo.hopkins
macrumors 6502a
Exactly. This isn't an either-or situation; availability of computers can increase and the number of teachers can decrease, but it doesn't mean that there must be either no teachers and all computers or vice-versa. If this is benefiting the school system (and more importantly the students), then how can anyone think negatively of it?
Epic Xbox Revie
macrumors 6502a
I think it's a great idea to incorporate laptops into elementary and secondary schooling. We basically require it for upper level education in college, why not get them used to it earlier, and it seems to be helping attendance and grades, and probably overall happiness.
Good work.
Good work.
This sounds more like a technology based magnet school. Not what this article is about.
They came to my middle school to try and convince us to go to one as well. Their idea was to throw funds at a school and convince students from outside the area to attend it.
Really what they were doing was getting smart children to go to a school located 'in the ghetto' for lack of a better term, to increase overall scores.
InuNacho
macrumors 68010
That is so true.
A kind and caring teacher saved me from suicide in my early high school years, I doubt any piece of software can do anything like that.
maelstromr
macrumors 6502
Absolutely true. And we should do everything in our power to keep and reward the best, brightest and most dedicated teachers out there. Unfortunately, our current public education system does nothing even resembling this.
Will do good
macrumors 6502a
You did read the story right? You do notice all the scores are better, right?
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Please explain the better scores and graduation rates...
whooleytoo
macrumors 604
IMO, that's just it. Give a child a shiny new 'toy', tell them they're going to be part of a new initiative, and they see their school being mentioned in the news, their classmates photos on the web; and dozens of visitors coming to see how it's all working out... of course there will be a response.
They probably would have seen improvements if they'd just been given a new refill pad and a shiny new pen. </cynical> 😉
Children thrive when given attention and approval.
jclardy
macrumors 601
I see some people aren't into checking sources...
One of the poorest school districts in $/child but top 5 in test scores and graduation rates when they were no where near that before? Hmm...
Numbers aren't everything of course, but there is no way for us to quantitatively measure their future success as of yet, as it has only been going 3 years. It is funny that people in this thread just assume because of the larger class sizes that the kids obviously aren't learning.
The reality is that education in America is declining compared to other countries who aren't tied down to antiquated methodologies as if they are the only way to learn.
A bigger problem in the US is teaching unions. All teachers are not created equal. If a teacher is constantly producing poor performing students (relatively, of course) they should be fired. Like the real world that everyone else lives in. Do good - get rewarded, do bad - find another job.
Will do good
macrumors 6502a
You assume all teachers are good and add values to students, if that's the case why so many of our US school are failing so many of our kids?
I say we should give this a chance to see how much more success can we have comparing to the old system. We should always look forward and not the Status quo.
Look at their results, they speak for themselves.
evaluation of changes is hard
One can hope that they have carefully looked, but the world is full of newly implemented plans of all sorts (educational, social, governance, industrial, etc.) which were never properly tracked or analyzed. "We changed this 'cause it seemed like a good idea, but no we didn't think about how we would measure the results, and we took no care to limit or track the confounding effects of other changes in the system." is the sort of statement you seldom see on reports or proposals, but truthfully it should be in bold on almost every project of this type that I have encountered.
Tracking and measuring this sort of thing is quite hard, so it is not surprising that it is often skipped or done poorly. It also costs more to do that sort of thing well (in time and implementation dollars), so it is often the first thing to scale back when resources are limited.
Possible confounding effects: perhaps the student cohort recently is different than the group ahead of them - I wonder what the statistics on year-to-year variation in the schools might be - maybe these results are within the expected "noise" of the system and many more years of data are needed to see if it is significant. The positive impact of almost anything "new" is well known in education research - will any effects persist beyond the 2-3 year window when the "new" system becomes the "standard/old" system both from the point of view of the students and the teachers. Are the benefits arising due to individual laptops or perhaps due to increased student tracking and focus on student outcomes? Perhaps the laptops are not necessary and just better tracking would have the same impact? Are the student outcomes actually what is desired? How well do the students perform on other tasks like independent work or critical analysis - there is much debate on the value of standardized testing - is that the best way to gauge results?
As an example, back in the 1990s I saw some work done at UIUC in computer led instruction for intro physics courses. They managed to produce data for a few years over a few thousand students showing that the students from sections of the physics course using this computer-aided instruction performed on average way better than those sections not using the computer delivered material. Then they had a few semesters where the effect largely disappeared. It was a mystery until it was noticed that the Math Department had changed their schedules for the "Advanced Intro Calc" course to conflict with the sections of the physics course using the CAI system. It turns out that much of the gains in the physics course was due to the people choosing to be in the CAI sections. Even when assigned randomly, external effects impacted which students got assigned to which section of the course enough to have significant impact on the resulting grade differences between students.
In any case, I am pleased that they seem to have positive results from their changes to their system, and hope that they do manage to maintain such improvements for the long term, and that they can figure out what parts of their changes were positive and if any changes have drawbacks. Anything that focuses kids, teachers, administrators, and the public on the challenges facing our educational system and on ways that it can be improved both individually and systemically would seem to be a good thing.
One can hope that they have carefully looked, but the world is full of newly implemented plans of all sorts (educational, social, governance, industrial, etc.) which were never properly tracked or analyzed. "We changed this 'cause it seemed like a good idea, but no we didn't think about how we would measure the results, and we took no care to limit or track the confounding effects of other changes in the system." is the sort of statement you seldom see on reports or proposals, but truthfully it should be in bold on almost every project of this type that I have encountered.
Tracking and measuring this sort of thing is quite hard, so it is not surprising that it is often skipped or done poorly. It also costs more to do that sort of thing well (in time and implementation dollars), so it is often the first thing to scale back when resources are limited.
Possible confounding effects: perhaps the student cohort recently is different than the group ahead of them - I wonder what the statistics on year-to-year variation in the schools might be - maybe these results are within the expected "noise" of the system and many more years of data are needed to see if it is significant. The positive impact of almost anything "new" is well known in education research - will any effects persist beyond the 2-3 year window when the "new" system becomes the "standard/old" system both from the point of view of the students and the teachers. Are the benefits arising due to individual laptops or perhaps due to increased student tracking and focus on student outcomes? Perhaps the laptops are not necessary and just better tracking would have the same impact? Are the student outcomes actually what is desired? How well do the students perform on other tasks like independent work or critical analysis - there is much debate on the value of standardized testing - is that the best way to gauge results?
As an example, back in the 1990s I saw some work done at UIUC in computer led instruction for intro physics courses. They managed to produce data for a few years over a few thousand students showing that the students from sections of the physics course using this computer-aided instruction performed on average way better than those sections not using the computer delivered material. Then they had a few semesters where the effect largely disappeared. It was a mystery until it was noticed that the Math Department had changed their schedules for the "Advanced Intro Calc" course to conflict with the sections of the physics course using the CAI system. It turns out that much of the gains in the physics course was due to the people choosing to be in the CAI sections. Even when assigned randomly, external effects impacted which students got assigned to which section of the course enough to have significant impact on the resulting grade differences between students.
In any case, I am pleased that they seem to have positive results from their changes to their system, and hope that they do manage to maintain such improvements for the long term, and that they can figure out what parts of their changes were positive and if any changes have drawbacks. Anything that focuses kids, teachers, administrators, and the public on the challenges facing our educational system and on ways that it can be improved both individually and systemically would seem to be a good thing.
guzhogi
macrumors 68040
While I'm all for getting rid of bad teachers, how do you fairly & objectively see how good a teacher is? Test scores? How do you make the teachers teach the material & not teach to the test then?
That already happens in my district; give high grades and the parents and admin love you. If you have high academic standards there is a concerted effort to drive you out. No one questions a teacher who gives A's to every student but any student earning a D or F is a sign of a lazy teacher.
Will do good
macrumors 6502a
You are all about protecting your role as a union teacher and not of the interest of your students. If you care about the students, you will care that they ARE getting better with all the scores. YOU are the problem.
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OK, I bite. Give me some proofs. Not because I feel it...
It's been 3 years since they've started and numbers are still up. I would say give it another 5 years before deciding to roll it out further but overall I'm impressed with it.
BornAgainMac
macrumors 604
I bet those 37 teachers were not very effective. In college, I tried a Computer-based training for my accounting class and it helped my grades far more than when I had a teacher and text books. Sometimes a interactive approach that uses technology for some students works better than traditional approaches.
JackHobbs
macrumors regular
"A bigger problem in the US is teaching unions. All teachers are not created equal. If a teacher is constantly producing poor performing students (relatively, of course) they should be fired. Like the real world that everyone else lives in. Do good - get rewarded, do bad - find another job."
So who is going to make the test that grades "poor teachers"? Be very careful, in the UK we have league tables that grade the poor schools. What happened? Schools learnt what was important in the tables i.e. the test, and started pushing easy courses that had a lot of points values for the table. Schools allegedly improved massively and whizzed up the tables. Someone noticed and the easy exams were removed. Schools then whizzed back down the tables again. Meanwhile, education, that is education in the rounded sense, suffered. Learning stuff because it helped your thinking or enriched your life fell out of favour. Education became a means to an end. A way of getting qualifications that got you the next step.
If you want teachers to be like everyone else that's great. The marking I just did whilst I'm on holiday, well I won't do that. The students that ask for help after school, I won't do that. In fact anything outside of my contract won't be done. Any out of hours trip or optional stuff will be gone. i'm happy with that.
As for the crap about unions protecting their members, I think you'll find that's what they are paid/meant to do!😀
So who is going to make the test that grades "poor teachers"? Be very careful, in the UK we have league tables that grade the poor schools. What happened? Schools learnt what was important in the tables i.e. the test, and started pushing easy courses that had a lot of points values for the table. Schools allegedly improved massively and whizzed up the tables. Someone noticed and the easy exams were removed. Schools then whizzed back down the tables again. Meanwhile, education, that is education in the rounded sense, suffered. Learning stuff because it helped your thinking or enriched your life fell out of favour. Education became a means to an end. A way of getting qualifications that got you the next step.
If you want teachers to be like everyone else that's great. The marking I just did whilst I'm on holiday, well I won't do that. The students that ask for help after school, I won't do that. In fact anything outside of my contract won't be done. Any out of hours trip or optional stuff will be gone. i'm happy with that.
As for the crap about unions protecting their members, I think you'll find that's what they are paid/meant to do!😀
This is great news for this school district. I wish that my high school had done a pilot program with laptops and actually letting people use wireless internet throughout the building. The problem with the district was that they had a serious taboo with any new technology and the IT guy is a moron who thinks that CRT monitors take less energy than LCD flatscreen monitors (just as an example). They were/still running 5 year old hp computers with windows 2000 on them because they seem to think that this is enough. I just graduated last year and it was sad that even my Palm Pre Plus could do more then the computers at my school.
Even though this program did come at a cost (cutting teachers) the education system in the United States is seriously behind in terms of technology and I am glad to see that they are having success.
Even though this program did come at a cost (cutting teachers) the education system in the United States is seriously behind in terms of technology and I am glad to see that they are having success.