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Old Feb 24, 2012, 01:44 PM   #26
Shaun, UK
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Originally Posted by Medic278 View Post
I gather that but I was wondering if those in Brazil are happier/better paid etc etc and therefore more likely to do a better job.
Somehow I doubt it. Those kids in China are trying to escape grinding poverty in their rural homeland with a job in the city. The average Brazillian is escaping from a beautiful beach with lovely ladies wearing skimpy bikinis in the sunshine. Or maybe that's just my imagination. Must be watching too much beach volleyball again lol.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:16 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by techfest View Post
brazilian quality vs china quality
It's the same.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:23 PM   #28
antmarobel
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Only in Brazil...
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 02:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Thunderhawks View Post
Who says China is doing a bad job? QC is QC wherever.

As with all factory work it doesn't matter how much one would pay. It is
boring, monotonous, depressing depending on ones attitude and rarely happy, plus people would still complain.
That is why I can't understand all those people who complain that those manufacturing jobs have gone away. Do they really want to spend their entire life installing LCD screens on phones by hand, year after year for close to minimum age until they retire. Yes bring those jobs back.

I read it takes about 40 hours of hand labor to make an iPhone. They said over 300 steps of hand work. In the US a low-end factory worker might make $12 per hour. But add in taxes, medical and other insurance, the cost to run the lights and it about doubs the cost to $24. That comes to $960 of labor per USA made phone. Likely more as many of the workers would be making over $12.

Last edited by ChrisA; Feb 24, 2012 at 02:57 PM.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:14 PM   #30
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Just wondering, does the mark of origin on the reverse of the phone say "assembled in Brazil"?
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 04:41 PM   #31
iMacian
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That is why I can't understand all those people who complain that those manufacturing jobs have gone away. Do they really want to spend their entire life installing LCD screens on phones by hand, year after year for close to minimum age until they retire. Yes bring those jobs back.

I read it takes about 40 hours of hand labor to make an iPhone. They said over 300 steps of hand work. In the US a low-end factory worker might make $12 per hour. But add in taxes, medical and other insurance, the cost to run the lights and it about doubs the cost to $24. That comes to $960 of labor per USA made phone. Likely more as many of the workers would be making over $12.
40h hours sounds kind of unbelievable to me. They are assembling the parts, not carving the thing out of friggin marble.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Thunderhawks
Quote:
Originally Posted by deannnnn View Post
Let me know when the MD128US/A are available.
Not in this life!

Production will go all around the globe first to all the places where humans make too many humans (as in overpopulation!)
Overpopulation causes joblessness (There aren't enough jobs in the world for everybody anyway) and thus low wages.
So, next in line will be India (somewhat) and eventually Afrika will be targeted.

Yes, you read it here first.

If African countries get political stability figured out with currency issues, they'll see a lot of business. (I wouldn't be surprised if FoxConn was already in talks over there)

That excludes the famous Nigerian Princess married to the honorable Rev. Pashkali Tmubab, who is leaving the usual 60 million dollars in a special account for anybody to claim.
The letter after the PPN indicate the localization of an Apple product. For instance the keyboard layout etc. Not the country where the thing is made. See intl Apple online stores they offer products with different MPN (PPN+localization) references, e.g. French language products MPNs end with F/A. xZ/A usually stands for international/multi-lingual versions.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 05:38 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
The iPhone is not that affordable in the UK either. The cheapest iPhone 4S on PAYG is 500 quid. Apple has made it's fortune building premium products which by definition are targetted at wealthier customers. Given the way they're raking in the profits I can't see that changing anytime soon.

I've also read many reports of people in the US and the UK being mugged for their iPhone or iPad. Sadly it's a fact of life these days. There are many parts of the UK that I wouldn't want to go after dark, especially some of our inner city ghettos.
I'm just curious, but what android smartphones are targeted at the "less fortunate?" they are roughly $200 a phone. Hell, right now you can get a free 3GS. The cost of any phone is a drop in the bucket. It's the $100/mo that gets you, and that isn't Apples doing.

You probably think the price of gas going up 50 cents a gallon is a national emergency too.

I also can't remember the last time I heard of someone being mugged for their phone. Maybe 3 years ago.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:02 PM   #34
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I'm just curious, but what android smartphones are targeted at the "less fortunate?" they are roughly $200 a phone. Hell, right now you can get a free 3GS. The cost of any phone is a drop in the bucket. It's the $100/mo that gets you, and that isn't Apples doing.

You probably think the price of gas going up 50 cents a gallon is a national emergency too.

I also can't remember the last time I heard of someone being mugged for their phone. Maybe 3 years ago.
you are talking about US prices.... the 3gs in brazil can be had for a good U$500, unlocked, with a carrier, you are still going to pay around U$200.

My mbp I paid U$ 2k, its a 13'' 2011 base model.

My android phone I paid U$ 333, and its a free carrier plan android, the motorola charm. The moto razrx retails for around U$1k.

Its all quite expensive in here. I wouldnt actually be extremely annoyed on those prices if it came with a good return in terms of services per taxes
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 06:02 PM   #35
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If I take it as read that we are talking USD here, then how on earth can the normal Brazlian ever afford an iPhone?

The elite, and the fortunate will remain the only ones who can purchase one. San Paulo is a beautiful, but notorious place for high crime etc. No go areas where ( I am going back a ways ) was told that if I showed my face in I WOULD be attacked, mugged or possibly killed.

I can't see how Apple can achieve widespread sales unless they can bring down those prices.
Please stop your ignorant ramblings. São Paulo has half the homicide rate of D.C. and 1/3 of places like Detroit, New Orleans or Philadelphia...as for Brazilians, there at least 50 million of them who are more than able to buy iPhones, don't worry about that.

Just before people think that I am lying:

São Paulo has a 9.8/100,000 homicide rate. New Orleans: 49; St. Louis, 40; Baltimore, 34; Detroit, 34; D.C., 22; Philadelphia, 19.6; Miami, 15.4; Chicago, 15; Dallas, 11.3; etc. Is this enough?

Last edited by 50548; Feb 24, 2012 at 06:08 PM.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 07:20 PM   #36
Shaun, UK
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Originally Posted by bretm View Post
I'm just curious, but what android smartphones are targeted at the "less fortunate?" they are roughly $200 a phone. Hell, right now you can get a free 3GS. The cost of any phone is a drop in the bucket. It's the $100/mo that gets you, and that isn't Apples doing.

You probably think the price of gas going up 50 cents a gallon is a national emergency too.

I also can't remember the last time I heard of someone being mugged for their phone. Maybe 3 years ago.
There is no such thing as a free iPhone - you either pay for it up front or you pay for it in instalments as part of your monthly contract. Either way you pay for it.

I agree with you - all smartphones are targeted at wealthier customers. The iPhone is not exceptional in that respect. It will be a few years before smartphones are for everyone as component costs come down.

I'm assuming you're in the US. The current price of petrol (gasoline) in the UK is approx £6.30 per gallon which is approx £10 dollars a gallon. I think you would complain if "gas" cost you $10 a gallon.

You must live in a nice area because every few weeks I read in the papers here or on websites like this of people being mugged for their iPhones. A few years ago it was people being mugged for their Nike trainers. It's not unique to Apple it's just whatever is the hot must have product at the time.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 08:44 PM   #37
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Why are people surprised at these prices? are they silly enough to think that just because it is assembled there, it would sell at the price the rest of the world pays?

In Brazil, the world price is inflated by import tariffs. To avoid the cost of import tariffs a company can choose to do the final assembly of a product that is mostly assembled overseas in Brazil. But they can still charge what they want.

The price the manufacturer can now charge is the world price plus a margin up to the value of the tariff. It can charge up to that because an importer has to pay all of the tariff.

The price of an iphone in brazil =
  • (world price of part, cost of preliminary assembly and shipping of partially assembled iPhones)+
  • (final assembly cost in brazil)+
  • (economic rent obtained by Apple up to the cost of the tariff).

A side bonus for the manufacturer is there is no need for the producer to finally assemble the absolute latest product in Brazil until the demand curve adjusts over time. Hence at this time only iphone 4 undergoes final assembly in Brazil, with iphone 4S assembled later, possibly not until iphone 5 is on the market.

The end result of all this economic reality is that Brazilian iPhones sold in Brazil will be more profitable to Apple than imported iPhones. Brazilians with a limited budget still pay more regardless and must forego purchases of other goods (including possibly revenue generating ones) if the desire for iPhones outweighs those other products.

In the long run, tariffs are counterproductive for the Brazilian economy, but good for Apple Inc, even if the economic rent component of the price should decline over time.

In fact, depending on assembly and shipping costs differences, it might be profitable enough to sell Brazilian iPhones in other south american countries at prices lower than they are sold in Brazil.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 09:15 PM   #38
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Good to hear Foxconn is continuing its humanitarian efforts in brazil too so I can enjoy a new phone every year instead of every other year...
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 09:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Macman45 View Post
The elite, and the fortunate will remain the only ones who can purchase one. San Paulo is a beautiful, but notorious place for high crime etc. No go areas where ( I am going back a ways ) was told that if I showed my face in I WOULD be attacked, mugged or possibly killed.
I'd rather walk around the Favelas of Sao Paulo instead of going around certain cities here in the U.S
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 05:24 AM   #40
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In Brasil, there isnt a law that removes the import taxes from iphones. there is only a law for ipads. Ipads will be cheaper (aka, finally match USA price), ipads nowadas are $900 (for the $500 USA model). The reason why iphones are being assembled in Brazil is just a "warming stage" for the factory start producing the ipads, wich are way more complicated.

BTW, this crazy prices is applied to everything. The PS3 base model, $250GB in USA is $700 in Brasil. A regular game wich usually have prices falling to $20, sells for $120 in Brasil.

I really dont get when people say eletronics are expensive in America
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 05:33 AM   #41
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In Brasil, there isnt a law that removes the import taxes from iphones. there is only a law for ipads. Ipads will be cheaper (aka, finally match USA price), ipads nowadas are $900 (for the $500 USA model). The reason why iphones are being assembled in Brazil is just a "warming stage" for the factory start producing the ipads, wich are way more complicated.

BTW, this crazy prices is applied to everything. The PS3 base model, $250GB in USA is $700 in Brasil. A regular game wich usually have prices falling to $20, sells for $120 in Brasil.

I really dont get when people say eletronics are expensive in America
The same Brazilian decree that established such fiscal exemptions for tablets is now being adjusted to also include smartphones - therefore, it's only a matter of time before the price of the Brazilian iPhone falls to more reasonable levels.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 08:17 AM   #42
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40h hours sounds kind of unbelievable to me. They are assembling the parts, not carving the thing out of friggin marble.
It took me less than an hour to dismantle a HP laptop that was also produced at Foxconn. I've also put it mostly back together at some point in the same amount of time.

Imagine an assembly line where each person puts one part, tightens one screw, or whatever. So if a phone has 350 steps, but each step only takes a minute, it only has 6 hours of actual assembly time.

Given that there are no moving parts, the iPhone assembly "time" , as done by one person might actually be faster than a full assembly line, but there are far more mistakes introduced.

At any rate, Apple's products are much more elegantly designed, even if not meant to be user serviceable (The laptops for example, take the back case off and everything is just there, and easy to swap out one part at a time. I can't say the same of any other device which seems like it was assembled intentionally to waste as much labor as possible.)
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 11:14 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by ChrisA View Post

I read it takes about 40 hours of hand labor to make an iPhone. They said over 300 steps of hand work.
Hell no does it take 40 hrs to put an iphone together. I took a 3gs apart and put it back together in under 2 hours, with just basic tools. This is being super careful without being familiar with the hardware. If I had all the specialized tools I bet I could do it in an hour.
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 04:24 PM   #44
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I'm not following. It costs Apple $1400 to make an iPhone 4s?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tariff
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 02:30 AM   #45
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Hell no does it take 40 hrs to put an iphone together. I took a 3gs apart and put it back together in under 2 hours, with just basic tools. This is being super careful without being familiar with the hardware. If I had all the specialized tools I bet I could do it in an hour.
I don't think it's just assembly. I think they make some parts, but mostly just glass, aluminium, and moulded plastic. They probably do some more advanced stuff, within limits.
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Old Feb 27, 2012, 09:03 AM   #46
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Please stop your ignorant ramblings. São Paulo has half the homicide rate of D.C. and 1/3 of places like Detroit, New Orleans or Philadelphia...as for Brazilians, there at least 50 million of them who are more than able to buy iPhones, don't worry about that.

Just before people think that I am lying:

São Paulo has a 9.8/100,000 homicide rate. New Orleans: 49; St. Louis, 40; Baltimore, 34; Detroit, 34; D.C., 22; Philadelphia, 19.6; Miami, 15.4; Chicago, 15; Dallas, 11.3; etc. Is this enough?
What about kidnappings, theft, and violent crimes? Brazil has some crazy numbers across the board for crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Brazil
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