Apple Touts U.S. Job Creation with Claims of 514,000 Jobs Tied to its Products

drummingcraig said:

I wonder what those numbers would look like if Apple's manufacturing was done in the US as well. Not flaming them for being offshore. Just curious what the impact would be.

Edit: Geez...relax with the down votes people. It was a rhetorical question. Again...I'm not blaming Apple for having overseas operations.

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I down vote you for caring about down votes.

PeterQVenkman said:

Doesn't Apple, like many major corporations, hold it's profits and "treasure chest" offshore in a way that they paying massive amounts of US tax on it?

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I don't believe they move their U.S. profits offshore, which is what it sounds like you're saying.

What they are doing is keeping the money they make in other countries in those countries. Since they're not using it for anything there's no sense in moving it and paying taxes until they actually want to do something with it.

So your answer is 'sort of, but not exactly.'

Puh leaze. This is a desperate PR advertisement. Apple never should have posted this...makes Apple look like they are trying to hide something.

NeverhadaPC said:

Finally someone talking sense. Manufacturing products in US would lead to marginal increases in product prices [labor is a small amount of product cost] ... the problem is, however, more likely tied to the lack of expertise on the manufacturing side in the USA --- 15 years of outsourcing has that effect. The other issue is of course the capitalistic goal of profit maximization and share prices. Apple wants $100B in the bank, not 200,000 blue-collar workers in USA.

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As the recently published articles on Apple's manufacturing in China have shown, the products are essentially assembled by hand. The work could be done here, but at labor rates about ten times what assembly line labor is paid in China. Specialty product manufacturing still thrives in the U.S., where skills and automation are required, but not general hand assembly of consumer products. This has been true for decades now.

nonsense - you really must be one of the new generation of iOS kids to believe such idiotic marketing.

nagromme said:

The numbers would be much closer to zero, if the resulting higher prices made their sales tank and prevented their products from getting any traction in an electronics market dominated by their low-cost Asia-sourced competitors

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Oh No It would be unbelievable for Apple to make anything in the US.



It's something that can never generate a penny of profit its not sustainable.

PR....

First - App developers have to PAY to get into the program. When was the last time you paid for a job? Not to mention - most developers aren't really developing apps as a job. Many are - or trying. But most are hobbyists (of that 200k+ figure)

Second - How come people are OK lumping in employees of Samsung, UPS, FEDEx, etc with THESE numbers - but when FoxConn is under the microscope everyone points out that those employees are NOT Apple employees but FoxConns.

Can't have it both ways. I'm not saying Apple doesn't have influence and hasn't supported jobs. But this is such blatant PR "crap" that it makes my eyes want to bleed.

theheadguy said:

Yes.


Where are you getting these "facts" from? Call center support for Apple is not entirely in the USA. They do have reps in India to handle many first-level calls. Secondly, it's part of why Apple can charge an arm and a leg for its products. They move this stuff all overseas, and their brand loses some of its shiny appeal. In other words, Apple would suffer consequences from such a move... they aren't doing it all for charity. Sorry, but the argument that Apple keeps it in the US just because they "care about the experience" is BS.

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Did you not even read the article or the linked content on Apple's webpage? How about you display a junior high school-level of reading comprehension and then coming back? READ:

ericinboston said:

Puh leaze. This is a desperate PR advertisement. Apple never should have posted this...makes Apple look like they are trying to hide something.

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Or they understand that the average Apple user has now hit Windows level - they can use any idiotic marketing they want.

Would you like a bag for that? I see, your new jobs is "thiers a bag for that"

Are people still worry about their jobs or getting jobs, really pathetic. Have yet to be unemployed, get your lazy self and upgrade your skill in real careers and knowledge and stop taking those Psychology classes.

ericinboston said:

Puh leaze. This is a desperate PR advertisement. Apple never should have posted this...makes Apple look like they are trying to hide something.

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Or, that they are responding to being singled out for bad press whenever anyone wants to spotlight Chinese labor issues.

nagromme said:

The numbers would be much closer to zero, if the resulting higher prices made their sales tank and prevented their products from getting any traction in an electronics market dominated by their low-cost Asia-sourced competitors

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Now your talking reality, you know they don't like reality in these forums

clibinarius said:

Actually you're mostly wrong. Apple could absorb the hit on their profit margins and still make a profit. It'd make the items apple produces cost 33% more to make (if they're priced to perfection and the margins are above 33% including all costs to the business factored in, that means it'd be able to keep prices where they are, but the returns would take a beating).

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Their margin is 33% when the goods are manufactured in China. What is the cost of building factories the size of small cities in the US? What is the cost of removing the factories from the proximity of their supply chains, which will still be in China? What is the cost of staffing the US factories? How much does the regulatory environment of the US increase the manufacturing cost compared to China? How would the effect of all of the above let Apple get products rapidly to market to compete with Android, et al.? Do you think Apple could sell their products at anywhere near the price they do now given these factors? I am asking that sincerely. Could they? I think it's a very difficult question to objectively analyze.

clibinarius said:

When people talk about "Job creation" they almost never talk about how many jobs are middle/upper class and above the poverty line. Notice it says full time employees in 50 states-it doesn't talk about how many there are.

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I wonder who might be a full-time employee in a state like Montana? There are no Apple Stores in Montana. When I lived there, I had met an Apple Rep for education, but he covered the Rocky Mountain region and was based out of Colorado. So I can't imagine who might be a full-time Apple employee in Montana right now.

More pr bs from Tim Cook's apple. So now a job is equated as someone who is paying apple instead of getting paid by apple...cause for sure the 200,000 devs are paying apple, but it's open to statistics as to how many of them are actually earning a living from their sales....

How about to get foxconn to reduce working hours (from about 12-14 a day) to something more akin to humans instead of human slaves Tim? We know you are not much of a visionary, so about being decent instead?

I would love to see Wal-Mart calculating jobs this way.

2.1 million jobs directly tied to Wal-Mart + X jobs tied its business partners + another X gazillion jobs that are part of the "In store and online shopping economy".

Now that number would blow our minds.

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Dear Apple, this is BS. Yuck.

tschull said:

Their margin is 33% when the goods are manufactured in China. What is the cost of building factories the size of small cities in the US? What is the cost of removing the factories from the proximity of their supply chains, which will still be in China? What is the cost of staffing the US factories? How much does the regulatory environment of the US increase the manufacturing cost compared to China? How would the effect of all of the above let Apple get products rapidly to market to compete with Android, et al.? Do you think Apple could sell their products at anywhere near the price they do now given these factors? I am asking that sincerely. Could they? I think it's a very difficult question to objectively analyze.

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It would take years to come down the pipe. But Apple still has factories here, or had, and they're now idling. You want to see something horrible? Go to Binghamton NY and check out all the empty IBM factories, and the one building that has its lights on to prove IBM still creates jobs in Binghamton, despite the fact they don't make anything there.

It can be done, just there's neither will or incentive. Apple's margins are big enough such that it can be done here, but isn't. And the iphone's margins are absurd, as are their PCs. And their G5s were made in the US.

Oh, an analysis showing that they could still churn a smaller profit making the things in the US and barely charging more:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business...if-it-were-made-in-the-us-about-1-140/238508/

Yay for defending ridiculous margins though.

theheadguy said:

They do have reps in India to handle many first-level calls. Secondly, it's part of why Apple can charge an arm and a leg for its products. They move this stuff all overseas, and their brand loses some of its shiny appeal. In other words, Apple would suffer consequences from such a move... they aren't doing it all for charity. Sorry, but the argument that Apple keeps it in the US just because they "care about the experience" is BS.

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Apple's support is top-class. No, they don't do it for charity - they do it for our money. The difference is that they still treat customers with respect even after taking their money, something very few other companies do. In this case, it would be disrespectful to customers to give them such poor support after having troubles with your product, even if you could save some money that way.

The difference people never got with Apple is that they build relationships with their customers. It's an old-school idea for doing business, from the days when people when to the same shop for 30-odd years because they built a relationship with the people, the place and the atmosphere there. Companies who think purely in terms of rapid turnaround and sales figures don't afford any time to support their customers.

Small White Car said:

I don't believe they move their U.S. profits offshore, which is what it sounds like you're saying.

What they are doing is keeping the money they make in other countries in those countries. Since they're not using it for anything there's no sense in moving it and paying taxes until they actually want to do something with it.

So your answer is 'sort of, but not exactly.'

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Apple, like many other companies, is keeping profits in a select few international tax havens in order to pay as little tax as possible to anyone (not just the US Government).

IJ Reilly said:

As the recently published articles on Apple's manufacturing in China have shown, the products are essentially assembled by hand. The work could be done here, but at labor rates about ten times what assembly line labor is paid in China. Specialty product manufacturing still thrives in the U.S., where skills and automation are required, but not general hand assembly of consumer products. This has been true for decades now.

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From what I've read paying US worker wages would add about $65 to the manufacturing costs of the devices which isn't that big a deal compared to things like the increased logistics of more transoceanic shipping and finding mid-level engineers in the quantity they need. I read one report that said it took Apple 2 weeks to hire all the mid-level personal they needed in China and if they would've tried the same thing in the US the search would have taken around 9 months. The US has bigger hurdles to overcome right now than blue collar wages.


Lethal

Small White Car said:

I don't believe they move their U.S. profits offshore, which is what it sounds like you're saying.

What they are doing is keeping the money they make in other countries in those countries. Since they're not using it for anything there's no sense in moving it and paying taxes until they actually want to do something with it.

So your answer is 'sort of, but not exactly.'

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really?, you really think that Apple leaves the money offshore because they "not using it"

they help put together the loby for the "tax holiday" - with the aim to win a one-year tax amnesty on foreign earnings - at a tax rate of about 5%, instead 35%.

it is offshore because Apple does not want to pay tax on it. if they get the TH from Obama it will be back here in a heartbeat.

NeverhadaPC said:

So Apple puts $100B in the bank to help the banks loan money to individuals. How come Apple does not list these individuals as employees too then... would boost their figures surely... Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

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They're not doing it to help the banks, I never said that. Nonetheless, Apple putting money into banks is a lot different than the idea that Apple is hoarding cash in a warehouse someplace, which seems to be the argument people are making.

drummingcraig said:

I wonder what those numbers would look like if Apple's manufacturing was done in the US as well. Not flaming them for being offshore. Just curious what the impact would be.

Edit: Geez...relax with the down votes people. It was a rhetorical question. Again...I'm not blaming Apple for having overseas operations.

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The numbers for days until you get your product would be measured in months.

Lets let the unions make Apple products! That would work well.

blow45 said:

More pr bs from Tim Cook's apple. So now a job is equated as someone who is paying apple instead of getting paid by apple...cause for sure the 200,000 devs are paying apple, but it's open to statistics as to how many of them are actually earning a living from their sales....

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I imagine that number is largely made up by companies who hire iOS developers. For example, I currently work as an iOS developer (but not in the US) for an international company. We make a business product that provides real-time data to businesses via a web interface. Our iOS app is seen as a critical interface to the product - broadening the customer base (particularly in involving small businesses).

It used to be a sort of trivial product, but we're doubling our people on it because the response has been so positive.

There is a real app economy, and it is supporting people's jobs.

PeterQVenkman said:

Doesn't Apple, like many major corporations, hold it's profits and "treasure chest" offshore in a way that they paying massive amounts of US tax on it?

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Money earned overseas is often kept overseas, I believe the statements made by Tim Cook indicate that. The reason is as much to keep the money locally where they're building and buying stuff, as it is to avoid repeatedly running into tax and business regulations involved with moving money around the world.

Apple earns a lot of money here, though, and I don't believe anyone has made the claim Apple is shipping their money overseas that they earn here as a tax dodge. I could be wrong of course, but somebody is paying sales taxes somewhere. People are paying payroll taxes as well. Income off of Apple's banked money is taxed in whatever jurisdiction it is held, and of course every time Apple spends some of that money to invest in research or whatever else, they're taxed on that too.

But global businesses are going to have money globally, and it doesn't make a lot of sense consolidating it all in one place if you need to keep spending it in many places. Leave the income where you bring it in, and then spend it locally when you need it.