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Old Mar 5, 2012, 06:39 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Why? Because I am anti-murder and anti-funding medicine for all that isn't life and death (except maybe rare cases)?
It's a public health issue. If contraceptives were readily available, the number of births in this country would go down, and so would the money spent on those births and the after care for people that cannot afford to have children in the first place. Studies have shown that it is unequivocally cheaper for society to provide free and low cost contraceptives. Not to mention better for the health of women in general.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 06:44 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by FX120 View Post
.... Either purchase heath insurance that covers your contraception (most do) or pay for it yourself. Or don't have sex.
the problem is that some social conservatives don't think your health insurance should pay for contraception.......the idea that "free birth control" is being proposed is an invention that's come from Rush et al
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 06:48 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Why? Because I am anti-murder and anti-funding medicine for all that isn't life and death (except maybe rare cases)?

Maybe that makes me intolerable of certain women. But don't forget that also makes me intolerable of men who support such stances as well.
No, that's not why.


Your example was that women would make a medical condition up (like PMS - typical male response by the way, and acne) in order to get a prescription for birth control. A completely ignorant, sexist, and disrespectful statement.

And than there were the insinuations in another thread that a woman would get an abortion because she didn't want to get "fat".


You, sir, are the very example of a man who doesn't have respect for women. You have belittled and disregarded the women who have come into these threads to provide a personal perspective. Somehow, though, you believe your opinon carries more weight than those who would actually be effected by such things. And that, sir, isn't intolerablity of certain women - that makes you intolerable of all women.

Last edited by Moyank24; Mar 5, 2012 at 06:55 PM. Reason: Grammar
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 06:53 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
No, that's not why.


Your example was that women would make something a medical condition up (like PMS - typical male response by the way, and acne) in order to get a prescription for birth control. A completely ignorant, sexist, and disrespectful statement.

And than there were the insinuations in another thread that a woman would get an abortion because she didn't want to get "fat".


You, sir, are the very example of a man who doesn't have respect for women. You have belittled and disregarded the women who have come into these threads to provide a personal perspective. Somehow, though, you believe your opinon carries more weight than those who would actually be effected by such things. And that, sir, isn't intolerablity of certain women - that makes you intolerable of all women.

Well said.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 06:54 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Macky-Mac View Post
the problem is that some social conservatives don't think your health insurance should pay for contraception.......the idea that "free birth control" is being proposed is an invention that's come from Rush et al
I haven't heard that.

I have heard some social conservatives stating that they don't believe insurance companies should be forced to provide free contraceptive coverage.

Frankly, I have found the arguments of the aforementioned people to be pretty stupid, because they have typically try and infer that somehow offering contraceptive coverage is a strike against their "religious freedom". That I think is a load of BS.

My objection to the whole ordeal is that hormonal contraceptives have been singled out and elevated as if they were some sort of super critical drug so necessary in the lives of the 21st century woman that they have to be provided for free.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:03 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
No, that's not why.


Your example was that women would make a medical condition up (like PMS - typical male response by the way, and acne) in order to get a prescription for birth control. A completely ignorant, sexist, and disrespectful statement.
Other than the obvious contraception, PMS is one of the conditions that birth control is most prescribed for. A typical educated response.

And it's not ignorant, sexist or disrespectful. It's congruent with the current state of human condition and with those who would expect us or others to pay for their birth control.

Quote:
And than there were the insinuations in another thread that a woman would get an abortion because she didn't want to get "fat".
Quote, please.

Quote:
You, sir, are the very example of a man who doesn't have respect for women. You have belittled and disregarded the women who have come into these threads to provide a personal perspective. Somehow, though, you believe your opinon carries more weight than those who would actually be effected by such things. And that, sir, isn't intolerablity of certain women - that makes you intolerable of all women.
Oh yeah? lol
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:24 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
No, that's not why.


Your example was that women would make a medical condition up (like PMS - typical male response by the way, and acne) in order to get a prescription for birth control. A completely ignorant, sexist, and disrespectful statement.

And than there were the insinuations in another thread that a woman would get an abortion because she didn't want to get "fat".


You, sir, are the very example of a man who doesn't have respect for women. You have belittled and disregarded the women who have come into these threads to provide a personal perspective. Somehow, though, you believe your opinon carries more weight than those who would actually be effected by such things. And that, sir, isn't intolerablity of certain women - that makes you intolerable of all women.
Well said, and I agree completely.

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Originally Posted by FX120 View Post
I haven't heard that.

I have heard some social conservatives stating that they don't believe insurance companies should be forced to provide free contraceptive coverage.

Frankly, I have found the arguments of the aforementioned people to be pretty stupid, because they have typically try and infer that somehow offering contraceptive coverage is a strike against their "religious freedom". That I think is a load of BS.

My objection to the whole ordeal is that hormonal contraceptives have been singled out and elevated as if they were some sort of super critical drug so necessary in the lives of the 21st century woman that they have to be provided for free.
Frankly, - while I can have some understanding of why individuals become passionate on the matter of abortion even if I disagree with them - I am utterly astonished that the argument on contraception is still being fought with such.......feeling.

I am astounded, simply astounded.

On this forum, daily, we read threads from guys asking why women 'won't' and asking for advice on how to persuade women to fancy them and sleep with them. Yet, by contrast, here, on this thread, we get casually contemptuous responses - the old, yes, conservative, mantra - 'just say no' suggesting that women simply forego a sex life if you cannot afford to pay for contraceptives.

As Lord Blackadder correctly pointed out, this is one of those areas where gender and class intersect. While the upper middle classes can generally well afford elective medical provision, and services, and goods, many people don't have the means to afford health insurance. Thus, not for the first time, the less well off and the poor are penalised, penalised for poverty and for having the temerity to even contemplate a sex life without having to pay the possible cost, financial, physical, psychological, of pregnancy. Likewise, surprisingly, women don't always have a choice on whether or not to have sex, even in the first world, and even in the upper middle class.

In other parts of the world, this situation is even more pronounced and the debate about the public provision of health - and access to publicly funded access to birth control - is, even more, literally, a question of denial of choice, and sometimes, even more literally again, quite simply a matter of life and death for women.

This is why I find coalitions of controlling conservatives, invariably male, and implacably informed of the rightness of their view by their hotline to their respective divinities so utterly repellant. An especially grotesque example of one of these ghastly coalitions occurred during the Bush administration, when that administration, along with the Catholic Church and representatives of Islam, managed to end funding via the UN of access to birth control for women in parts of sub-Saharan Africa. Again, the argument was couched in terms of cost, and public funding, rather than crude misogyny. But the effect is to deny control of their lives and choice to many millions of women.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:34 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Why? Because I am anti-murder and anti-funding medicine for all that isn't life and death (except maybe rare cases)?
Which kind of puts you in a tight spot. If you want people to pay for their own (very expensive in some cases) contraception and it is too much for their budget, you are by implication inviting them to take action you might find even more objectionable (post-conception remedies).

The argument that sex should only be for baby-making is naïve and absurd. It provides humans with much needed stress relief and contributes to the economy in ancillary ways. To use some quaint moral code to argue that it is "optional" is a ridiculously impractical waste of spleen.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:35 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by FX120 View Post
If you choose to be sexually active and don't want to get pregnant, you should take into account the associated costs of that decision. Either purchase heath insurance that covers your contraception (most do) or pay for it yourself. Or don't have sex.
Birth control has far more uses besides preventing pregnancy. Someone who chooses to abstain from sex their entire life might still be prescribed birth control for certain medical conditions.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:37 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Other than the obvious contraception, PMS is one of the conditions that birth control is most prescribed for. A typical educated response.

And it's not ignorant, sexist or disrespectful. It's congruent with the current state of human condition and with those who would expect us or others to pay for their birth control.



Quote, please.



Oh yeah? lol
From This post:

Quote:
It is the woman's decision to terminate another life to save her from expenses, or getting chubby, or to avoid the pain endured in giving birth.

And pray tell, what exactly is PMS? It's a catch-all phrase for numerous ailments...And it's a typical male response - if you want to call it educated, so be it. I call it ignorance.

You can argue you aren't sexist, ignorant, or disrespectful until you are blue in the face. The truth is, your words speak for themselves.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:50 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
And pray tell, what exactly is PMS?
You really don't know?
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:54 PM   #137
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With the majority of reasons for abortions being social implications I think the use of "chubby" in a list of reasons is obviously not the majority but certainly not off base.

Quote:
And pray tell, what exactly is PMS? It's a catch-all phrase for numerous ailments...And it's a typical male response - if you want to call it educated, so be it. I call it ignorance.
Venture over to the U.S. National Library of Health to learn all about PMS. I look forward to your email write-up addressing their ignorance.

Quote:
You can argue you aren't sexist, ignorant, or disrespectful until you are blue in the face. The truth is, your words speak for themselves.
Eh, I disagree but then again I am rational.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:56 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by obeygiant View Post
You really don't know?
Apparently not. Which is why I'm waiting for Renewed to tell me what it is. He seems to know more about women than women do...

/Sarcasm


My point was...you don't get a prescription for birth control because of "PMS"...He says he is educated in the subject - so I'm waiting for the educated portion of his response. There have been many real medical conditions brought up in prior posts where Birth Control is prescribed. He seems to have ignored those in favor of "PMS".
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 07:59 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
He says he is educated in the subject - so I'm waiting for the educated portion of his response. There have been many real medical conditions brought up in prior posts where Birth Control is prescribed. He seems to have ignored those in favor of "PMS".
From the link above:

Quote:
Birth control pills may decrease or increase PMS symptoms.

In severe cases, antidepressants may be helpful.

The first options are usually antidepressants known as selective serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs).

Cognitive behavioral therapy may be an alternative to antidepressants.

Light therapy may decrease the need for antidepressant medications.

Patients who have severe anxiety are sometimes given anti-anxiety drugs.

Diuretics may help women with severe fluid retention, which causes bloating, breast tenderness, and weight gain.

Bromocriptine, danazol, and tamoxifen are drugs that are occasionally used for relieving breast pain.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:00 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
With the majority of reasons for abortions being social implications I think the use of "chubby" in a list of reasons is obviously not the majority but certainly not off base.
It is 'off base' if it is presented, as you did, in such a manner as to massively overstate its incidence as an excuse for birth control use.

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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Venture over to the U.S. National Library of Health to learn all about PMS. I look forward to your email write-up addressing their ignorance.
Leave it to you to tell a woman to look at a website in order to learn about PMS.

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Originally Posted by renewed View Post
Eh, I disagree but then again I am rational.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:02 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Lord Blackadder View Post

Leave it to you to tell a woman to look at a website in order to learn about PMS.
She didn't even realize it was a medical condition. She perceived it as me being ignorant and sexist to say PMS so I was educating her, a female.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:07 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by kavika411 View Post
The reason is that there is a broader tactic at play here - to make the term "conservative" synonymous with "racist," "homophobic," and/or "sexist."

I consider myself a conservative? Why? Because I want to drastically reduce the size of and dependence upon government. To me - hell, perhaps only me - that is the core of the term "conservative."

Am I in favor of gay marriage? Yes. (Why the government has any involvement in marriage is beyond me.)

Do I give a flying **** about the color of someone's skin? No. (As I've said in other threads, I support slavery reparations with the caveat that every single race-based law is overturned.)

Do I give a damn what what one, two or more (consenting) people do sexually in the privacy of their bedroom? God no.

Do I support a woman's right to an abortion as outlined in Roe v. Wade? Yes.

But back to your comment, Tomorrow, the idea is to make the term "conservative" a pejorative term. I think some of the roots of this movement is that some liberals are frustrated that the term "liberal" got hijacked in recent years to have a negative connotation, and are interested in returning the favor.


This is hilarious and ironic considering just how often and how insane the depth of depravity most Conservatives are willing to go to, just to use the word "Liberal" as a smear term.

But, then again, I suppose you believe the "liberal media conspiracy" really exists. Otherwise, I can't think of a single good reason you'd throw in with a party line so clearly out of touch with reality, and so diametrically opposed to what you claim your core beliefs to be.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
And pray tell, what exactly is PMS? It's a catch-all phrase for numerous ailments...And it's a typical male response - if you want to call it educated, so be it. I call it ignorance.
syn·drome/ˈsinˌdrōm/
Noun:
A group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms.
A characteristic combination of opinions, emotions, or behavior: "the “Not In My Back Yard” syndrome".


I get what you're saying here, but "Syndrome" is a set of symptoms, even if they're from different underlying ailments.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:12 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Birth control has far more uses besides preventing pregnancy. Someone who chooses to abstain from sex their entire life might still be prescribed birth control for certain medical conditions.
Exactly. I've been on birth control for years and I'm a lesbian. Two of my best friends are prescribed birth control for PCOS. And while these examples are anecdotal, research suggests it's not uncommon.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:16 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Queen of Spades View Post
It's a public health issue. If contraceptives were readily available, the number of births in this country would go down, and so would the money spent on those births and the after care for people that cannot afford to have children in the first place. Studies have shown that it is unequivocally cheaper for society to provide free and low cost contraceptives. Not to mention better for the health of women in general.
The only reason Conservatives oppose these simple, common sense solutions to things they claim are fundamental problems is that they don't really give a rats ass about anyone or anything, save for the numbers in black at the bottom of their account statements.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:20 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Rampant.A.I. View Post
syn·drome/ˈsinˌdrōm/
Noun:
A group of symptoms that consistently occur together or a condition characterized by a set of associated symptoms.
A characteristic combination of opinions, emotions, or behavior: "the “Not In My Back Yard” syndrome".


I get what you're saying here, but "Syndrome" is a set of symptoms, even if they're from different underlying ailments.
Oy Vey.

I understand what PMS is.

I took issue with the fact that Renewed said women would start to make up excuses (including PMS and acne) in an effort to get birth control prescribed. He wasn't using it as a real reason - but as one that someone would use as an excuse.


Quote:
Then let's limit the ability for birth control to be prescribed only to those who can prove that this is the best option for them and that any other choice would prove harmful to their health. And let's mandate that those seeking birth control for their contraceptive properties must pay for it like other medications their insurance covers.

Let us then see how many women all of a sudden have PMS, acne, endometriosis and other conditions that were not reported before hand.
Anyone have the definition of the term context?
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:25 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post

Your example was that women would make a medical condition up (like PMS - typical male response by the way, and acne) in order to get a prescription for birth control. A completely ignorant, sexist, and disrespectful statement.
Who is sexist, ignorant and disrespectful? I listed legitimate conditions that birth control is used to treat. You made up what you thought I was indicating in order to belittle my responses into a sexist and ignorant agenda of some sorts against women.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:28 PM   #147
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The only reason Conservatives oppose these simple, common sense solutions to things they claim are fundamental problems is that they don't really give a rats ass about anyone or anything, save for the numbers in black at the bottom of their account statements.
I have been following this thread, having read and considered every one of the 145 replies to date.

I am just compelled to respond to this post. In my opinion, it has to be the most absurd, immature, unfounded and generally moronic thing I have read on this forum for a long time.

Don't even bother replying to me or challenging this... obviously it is not a factual statement, simply my opinion. Down vote me, call me an idiot, blah blah it makes no difference. It's simply my opinion, and I just had to inject it into this discussion. No redeeming value, other than I felt it needed to be said.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:31 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by yg17 View Post
Birth control has far more uses besides preventing pregnancy. Someone who chooses to abstain from sex their entire life might still be prescribed birth control for certain medical conditions.

Quote:
Exactly. I've been on birth control for years and I'm a lesbian. Two of my best friends are prescribed birth control for PCOS. And while these examples are anecdotal, research suggests it's not uncommon.
And? I don't personally care if it's used to prevent pregnancy, regulate menstrual activities, or die hair purple.

I've yet to hear a legitimate reason on why specifically contraceptives should be offered for free, while many other medications (many of which much more critical to a persons survival) will still only be covered partially or not at all by most insurers.

Honestly it doesn't affect me one bit, but I find the arguments on both sides to be inconsistent and hypocritical.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:33 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by FX120 View Post
I've yet to hear a legitimate reason on why specifically contraceptives should be offered for free, while many other medications will still only be covered partially or not at all.

Honestly it doesn't affect me one bit, but I find the arguments on both sides to be inconsistent and hypocritical.
You haven't read the thread, then, as I've made several arguments as to why it's actually cheaper and more beneficial for society to offer it for free.
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Old Mar 5, 2012, 08:33 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by CalWizrd View Post
I have been following this thread, having read and considered every one of the 145 replies to date.

I am just compelled to respond to this post. In my opinion, it has to be the most absurd, immature, unfounded and generally moronic thing I have read on this forum for a long time.
Thank you, I'm waiting for your concise explanation as to why, and your inferred rationale as to why conservatives claim they have specific core values, and then consistently vote against and throw out simple, common sense solutions when it saves them money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWizrd View Post
Don't even bother replying to me or challenging this... obviously it is not a factual statement, simply my opinion. Down vote me, call me an idiot, blah blah it makes no difference. It's simply my opinion, and I just had to inject it into this discussion. No redeeming value, other than I felt it needed to be said.
I see, you don't actually intend to take part in the discussion, and just wanted to anonymously vent your vitriol. Carry on then.
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