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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:24 PM   #1
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FAA Taking a 'Fresh Look' at Digital Device Use During Takeoff and Landing




The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration is reexamining regulations banning the use of digital devices like the iPad or Amazon Kindle during taxi, takeoff and landing of commercial aircraft. Passengers are banned from using electronics while the aircraft is under 10,000 feet, but pilots and crew are allowed to use their iPads during all phases of flight. This is especially important because many airlines are replacing pilot flight bags with iPads to reduce weight and save money.




Nick Bilton, writing for the New York Times:
Quote:
When I called the F.A.A. last week to pester them about this regulation -- citing experts and research that says these devices could not harm a plane -- the F.A.A. responded differently than it usually does. Laura J. Brown, deputy assistant administrator for public affairs for the F.A.A., said that the agency has decided to take a "fresh look" at the use of personal electronics on planes.
Good news for some, but there are some peculiar quirks to the FAA's bureaucratic approval process. Under current guidelines, individual tablet models will need to be tested separately -- on each different aircraft model. The iPad, iPad 2 and iPad 3 will be individually tested, each on a separate flight, on an empty plane, for the Boeing 737, 747, 757, etc. Smartphones are not being considered for approval, which will be good news for those hoping to keep the skies a relatively quiet place.
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The F.A.A. said it is exploring how to bring together electronics "manufacturers, consumer electronic associations, aircraft and avionics manufacturers, airlines, pilots, flight attendants and passengers" to figure out how to allow greater use of these electronics on planes. That's a lot of people, organizations and bureaucracy to juggle. Plus the money to do this testing is going to have to come from somewhere.
We are a long ways off from seeing iPads in use during takeoff and landing, but the fact that the FAA is willing to consider changing the regulations is very promising.

Article Link: FAA Taking a 'Fresh Look' at Digital Device Use During Takeoff and Landing
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:30 PM   #2
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Ok for iPad owners. But what about Galaxy Tab owners?
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:30 PM   #3
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The older man seems upset in the photo. The younger one looks like he messed up on something.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:30 PM   #4
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Nice to see some rational thought behind this. I wouldn't mind the pilots getting what they need - passengers will always be rude whether or not they're allowed to play angry birds during takeoff.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:31 PM   #5
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Smartphones are not being considered for approval, which will be good news for those hoping to keep the skies a relatively quiet place.

I am 100% all for this, as nothing would be more annoying than a plane full of people on their phone. I wonder if they'll allow iPhones during taxi/takeoff/landing as long as they're in Airplane mode.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:31 PM   #6
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Although it would be nice to be able to use my iPad or iPod on and before takeoff, it's really not that big of a deal. Read a magazine or do a crossword for 15 minutes.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddie760 View Post
Ok for iPad owners. But what about Galaxy Tab owners?
The story seems to imply that this is "bureaucracy." But in the interests of safety, of course each device will have to be tested in each airplane. The radiation emissions will be different, and the wiring of each model of plane is different.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:33 PM   #8
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To people who are worried about the iPad suddenly not working, creating some sort of accident: Why buy one iPad when you can buy two at twice the price?

EDIT: I wonder how many people will get the reference...

Last edited by DESNOS; Mar 19, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:34 PM   #9
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starting to get board of this photo...

To be honest I don't think what apple devices are being used for should be "news" here. Only apple endorsed programs like ibooks should feature here.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:36 PM   #10
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Great news for frequent fliers.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:36 PM   #11
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I always thought it was all about not having the passenger during takeoff and landing, which are key periods where things might go wrong..

We obviously all know that iPads and other devices can't bring down (or interfere) the aircraft communications systems..

I mean, haven't we all left it on Airplane mode/Sleep at one time or other?
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:36 PM   #12
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If I were Tim Cook, I would be on the phone with the FAA as soon as humanly possible, offering to outright pay for all the testing.

Being the first ones to have a certified platform to allow you to work/play door-to-door would be right up their ally.

Karl P

Edit:

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

It would simultaneously be a good marketing opportunity, a nice gesture to their growing list of aerospace companies, and it would set a precedent of the end company paying for qualification, which keeps it off of needing to add another federal budget line item.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post
The story seems to imply that this is "bureaucracy." But in the interests of safety, of course each device will have to be tested in each airplane. The radiation emissions will be different, and the wiring of each model of plane is different.
There's gotta be an app for that!
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:37 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlieegan3 View Post
starting to get board of this photo...

To be honest I don't think what apple devices are being used for should be "news" here. Only apple endorsed programs like ibooks should feature here.
If only things "Apple Endorsed" got posted here, "MacRumors" would have to change its name to "MacFacts", thereby making this site pointless.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stridder44 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Smartphones are not being considered for approval, which will be good news for those hoping to keep the skies a relatively quiet place.
I am 100% all for this, as nothing would be more annoying than a plane full of people on their phone. I wonder if they'll allow iPhones during taxi/takeoff/landing as long as they're in Airplane mode.
I was going to quote the EXACT same thing! It would make flying more dreadful than it can be already.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stridder44 View Post
I wonder if they'll allow iPhones during taxi/takeoff/landing as long as they're in Airplane mode.
Too difficult to enforce
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:39 PM   #17
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The current situation is far too overly safe because there is no evidence of a problem. And the route to change has been impeded by overly complex bureaucracy. nice to see there is a chance of this improving.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift
Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddie760 View Post
Ok for iPad owners. But what about Galaxy Tab owners?
The story seems to imply that this is "bureaucracy." But in the interests of safety, of course each device will have to be tested in each airplane. The radiation emissions will be different, and the wiring of each model of plane is different.
But if pilots are already using iPads during takeoff and landing that implies that they have been tested and proved to be safe. And let's face it, whereabouts on an aeroplane is an iPad etc. likely to be the greatest risk? Yep, on the flight deck which is stuffed to the gunwales with electronic equipment. So I would say it's bureaucracy.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caligomez View Post
I always thought it was all about not having the passenger during takeoff and landing, which are key periods where things might go wrong..
I think you a word there.

But yes, my understanding has always been that the rule was more about removing extra distractions during the two most likely phases of flight for a crash to occur. If an evacuation is necessary, you need passengers paying attention.

I'm sure when portable electronic devices started showing up, there was some real concern about interference until comprehensive tests were done. But now that we know better (?), flight crews simply use that explanation to help enforce the safety rule.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:45 PM   #20
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I never understood the crews saying the devices must be turned OFF, even if they have an airplane mode. To me its called 'airplane mode' for a reason...
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DESNOS View Post
To people who are worried about the iPad suddenly not working, creating some sort of accident: Why buy one iPad when you can buy two at twice the price?

EDIT: I wonder how many people will get the reference...
That would be "Contact". But I don't get why the reference is relevant.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:47 PM   #22
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The U.S.'s stance toward electronic devices on planes crossed the line in to absurdity a long time ago. There are planes in the UAE that have cell phone repeaters hooked to satellite receivers to tie them in to the mainland lines so that everyone on the plane gets cell reception and can text and make calls.


I understand people who dislike the social ramifications of having cell reception on phones (you thought the lady with the loud baby was annoying? Wait till a teen talks on the phone next to you the whole trip).

But the fact that the airlines think that a kid playing his iPod or GameBoy- devices with no wireless communication whatsoever- can bring down a plane and have to be shut off is crazy if we can have cell phone repeaters on planes in the UAE.

There is absolutely no reason that Airplane Mode would be insufficient during takeoff and landing for an iPhone/iPad.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:47 PM   #23
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Instead of approving individual devices, couldn't they create a UL listing for "plane-safe" electronics, e.g. those that would pass the FAA test? Or does FAA not acknowledge UL?
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bankshot View Post
But yes, my understanding has always been that the rule was more about removing extra distractions during the two most likely phases of flight for a crash to occur. If an evacuation is necessary, you need passengers paying attention.
That's not the reason for the rule:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/1...and-ipad-html/

Quote:
The F.A.A. admits that its reasons have nothing to do with the undivided attention of passengers or the fear of Kindles flying out of passengers’ hands in case there is turbulence. That leaves us with the danger of electrical emissions.
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Old Mar 19, 2012, 01:50 PM   #25
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I have a feeling that a lot of the issue revolves around the fear that an electronic device will be used to detonate an explosive device somewhere else on board.

Or using your phone to setup tracking for an outside source to down a plane.

It has nothing to do with any device interrupting the pilots ability to control the plane - although wouldn't it be cool to use an app like flight control and start maneuvering the real plane using your finger on the app?

The FAA will make the testing so cumbersome and time consuming that it will effectively kill the ability to get any product certified. The fact that they're already using iPads should tell you that their testing methodology is just a deterrent.
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