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Official Complaints Over '4G' Marketing of New iPad Taking Hold in Europe

Slovak said:
This means I should be able to sue every sports car manufacturer that shows an ad with their car going 100+ mph. My country/state/city doesn't have suitable roads and/or arbitrarily low speed limits. Waaaah!
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Hum, there's about 3 tracks where I can drive their car going 100+ mph in a lesser than 30 minute drive from my house. Pretty much every country where cars are sold have motorsport tracks where you can go for track days.

Notice how they never show 100+ mph on public roads in their advertising.
 
Wow this is funny, this is becoming a EU/US war in here. Soon we're gonna see the classics: dark red European socialists vs. crazy US citizens obeying the big corporations that enslave them 🙂

Let us summarize the different bad-faith arguments here:
1) But there is a disclaimer, people are stupid in Australia/Europe
2) Americans have broken the sanctity of 4G by associating HSPA+ and other 3G something technologies to it
4) People are stupid and just want to sue

So let's take those arguments 1 by 1, and try to be fair:
1) Yes, there is a disclaimer. But Apple is marketing the new iPad on their website as "lightening fast Wifi + 4G". If Nokia advertised a phone in the US, as "The Nokia Gold; the best phone to make phone calls", and it had a disclaimer down below stating: "Phone calls are only available in limited areas, such as Sweden and Norway"; then the consumer protection associations in the US would also be complaining about false advertising.
Remember people: we are talking about "misleading advertising" here, so it doesn't matter the legal copy, what matters is what is believed to be sold to the consumers on the big billboards.

2) Yes, maybe AT&T and others wanted to sell more by pretending 3G++ networks were 4G. But let's be honest, though Europe was way ahead for 3G (the release of the first EDGE iPhone was a joke at the time, 2G phones had nearly completely disappeared in Europe); the US clearly are ahead in terms of 4G (both "fake" and "LTE"). Very few big European countries have commercially available LTE; and even HSPA+ penetration is not that good.
So whether we do or do not market 3G++ as being 4G is not the matter: Europe has lost this battle, get over it, we'll see for 5G 🙂

3) This is not about suing anyone, or wanting to take down Apple. Yes, Apple fans or tech savvy persons do understand the frequency game; but here in Europe the mentality is different when it comes to corporations: a company is not a person, and none of its rights comes before the ones of the individuals. As opposed to the US, no one gets millions of dollars for suing a company (or anyone); compensations are always in the hundreds or the thousands of Euros depending on the country. And it's not even the question here; no one wants to hurt Apple (no one could), it's just a matter of forcing Apple to slightly rephrase its adds, so that a standard 50-something user won't buy an iPad for its 4G compatibility, thinking in 6 months with the commercial LTE launch, his iPad will be faster.

So don't make a fuss about it, Apple will rephrase its adds and learn the lesson. Being an American company, using the 4G term for HSPA+ seemed natural, and they didn't need a lot of bad faith to think it would pass in Europe. That's it.
 
I think we should complain how Apple advertised on its UK website that the 4S was a world phone compared to the 4, when it supports the same amount of countries to roam too.
 
Therbo said:
No, dosen't support any of the bands.
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what the hell?! that's terrible! so it only works in the US and Canada? who to blame here? Apple or Mobile companies?

isn't there a 4G technology that work on ALL 4G networks? i guess this for the iPad 4 wooooo! 😀
 
applesith said:
Yeah but you don't really look to the EU for technology breakthroughs or new consumer tech roll-out. It's nothing personal, it's just the way it is.
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Uhm, Sweden launched the first commercially available LTE network in the world in 2009. What's more, Ericson, a Swedish company, is one of the largest mobile network tech providers on the planet. Oh, and we had the our first commercially available mobile phone network up and running in 1981, two years before America.

Get your facts straight before you make grand assumptions about tech origins.
 
sclawis300 said:
From Apple's website. When you see something with an "*" or a little number by it, that means there is a footnote. READ IT. It is not that hard.

"2. 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S. and on Bell, Rogers, and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details."
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Details and fine print don't matter when it comes to Apple aka the most valuable company in the world. Governments love to go after large corporations under the guise of consumer protection. 🙄

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Stella said:
You shouldn't have to... Apple should be more clear about about 4G claims. 4G is a major feature of the iPad.. that only works in North America.

Strong consumer protection laws are for government busy bodies.
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fixed it for you.
 
Rogifan said:
Details and fine print don't matter when it comes to Apple aka the most valuable company in the world. Governments love to go after large corporations under the guise of consumer protection. 🙄

----------


fixed it for you.
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Corporate tin-foil hat?
 
sweetbrat said:
You keep talking about the disclaimer. Let's say that Apple created an iPad that uses the European LTE frequency so it works on their LTE networks. Then, without making any changes to the device, they marketed it here in the US as a 4G LTE device, but included a tiny disclaimer at the bottom of the website saying that it only does LTE in Europe. Everyone here in the US would buy it, and everyone here in the US, including you, would be pissed off.

Yes, the disclaimer might be there on the website. And yes, people should read disclaimers. But not everyone orders from the website. Even if they do, the fact is that the websites are directed towards different countries. Apple can change the prices on the UK website so that they're in pounds instead of dollars. But they leave the same LTE claims on there, knowing that it won't work in the country they're selling it in. That's wrong. Legally it MIGHT be just enough to keep them from getting in real trouble, but it seems very, very shady to the people purchasing the device. Apple should take the high road here and change their advertising in the countries that can't make use of the 4G LTE that it offers.
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you know what they say about people who assume. I would probably not buy it because I would have read the disclaimer. And clearly you have not looked at the UK website. Maybe you should check it out. Also, pretty sure it is printed on the box too. Also, show me an advertisement that says it is 4G in a country that it does not work.
 
almost everybody visiting this site, and many other Mac sites, knows the facts about availability of 4G around the world. But, 90% or more of the iPad users never visit sites like these. They go to the online Apple store and read text like "full speed", "all over the world" "superfast" "4G" and a lot of other terms expressing network speed, fontsize 15 and up.....and only ONE small "2" after after the words 4G LTE, fontsize <6, stating all of the above is not available in your country.

According to the law they probably don't do anything wrong, but it'a bit too clever marketing. Apple doesn't need that...Apple shouldn't need it. I hate it buying products were disclaimers are of more importance the accurate product information.
 
KnightWRX said:
Seems it isn't to all these consumer protection agencies, or otherwise, we wouldn't have these threads.



No, I mentionned the footnote when replying to you. Obviously, you did not read my post.

And yes, again, I linked the UK website where it clearly states "Up to 4G LTE". They do mention it in several areas of their UK site. I posted a link and a quote.

Again, you obviously have not read my post in your haste to reply and "defend" Apple. Let it go, they made a marketing oopsie and are catching flak for it. They'll adjust and move on. It's no big deal for them, they won't go out of business over it, no need to get so frenzied about it like you've been in this thread.
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pot meet kettle.
 
Lennholm said:
Corporate tin-foil hat?
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nah I just think governments have bigger issues to worry about than Apple's iPad advertising. But now that Apple is the most valuable coomapny in the world everything they do is going to be under the microscope. Tim Cook farts and someone will complain he's contributing to global warming.
 
KnightWRX said:
Seems it isn't to all these consumer protection agencies, or otherwise, we wouldn't have these threads.



No, I mentionned the footnote when replying to you. Obviously, you did not read my post.

And yes, again, I linked the UK website where it clearly states "Up to 4G LTE". They do mention it in several areas of their UK site. I posted a link and a quote.

Again, you obviously have not read my post in your haste to reply and "defend" Apple. Let it go, they made a marketing oopsie and are catching flak for it. They'll adjust and move on. It's no big deal for them, they won't go out of business over it, no need to get so frenzied about it like you've been in this thread.
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Sorry, I was thrown off by your including the language from the website in a quote box. I thought you were quoting someone else from the thread.
 
Celf said:
almost everybody visiting this site, and many other Mac sites, knows the facts about availability of 4G around the world. But, 90% or more of the iPad users never visit sites like these. They go to the online Apple store and read text like "full speed", "all over the world" "superfast" "4G" and a lot of other terms expressing network speed, fontsize 15 and up.....and only ONE small "2" after after the words 4G LTE, fontsize <6, stating all of the above is not available in your country.

According to the law they probably don't do anything wrong, but it'a bit too clever marketing. Apple doesn't need that.
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Exactly, Apple didn't become the company with the most satisfied customers in the world by being satisfied with just "covering its rear".
 
Celf said:
almost everybody visiting this site, and many other Mac sites, knows the facts about availability of 4G around the world. But, 90% or more of the iPad users never visit sites like these. They go to the online Apple store and read text like "full speed", "all over the world" "superfast" "4G" and a lot of other terms expressing network speed, fontsize 15 and up.....and only ONE small "2" after after the words 4G LTE, fontsize <6, stating all of the above is not available in your country.

According to the law they probably don't do anything wrong, but it'a bit too clever marketing. Apple doesn't need that. I hate it buying products were diclaimers are of more importance the accurate product information.
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I'd love to know how many people bought the device thinking it was something it's not. My guess is it's a small number of people. But even if it was one person some government busy body would make sure to investigate it.
 
Rogifan said:
nah I just think governments have bigger issues to worry about than Apple's iPad advertising.
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So they have to dismantle consumer protection agencies?


Rogifan said:
But now that Apple is the most valuable coomapny in the world everything they do is going to be under the microscope.
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Apple is not the only company involved on those investigations?

You know, there is a world outside Apple and it isn't centered on them
 
sclawis300 said:
From Apple's website. When you see something with an "*" or a little number by it, that means there is a footnote. READ IT. It is not that hard.

"2. 4G LTE is supported only on AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S. and on Bell, Rogers, and Telus networks in Canada. Data plans sold separately. See your carrier for details."
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fine print like that is not an acceptable excuse for false advertising.
The 4G LTE part should not be used in any country except where it will work end of story. That is only in the US and Canada. No where else in the world.
 
flynndean said:
I didn't criticise anybody and was very careful with my wording so as to make sure that I didn't. In fact, I'm not attempting to voice an opinion either way, just highlighting my interpretation of the situation based on my own experience. If you have been offended in any way, please feel free to highlight the offending passage and I'll be the first to back down.

One thing I would note is that every analogy eventually breaks down, particularly if you have a preconceived view that is going to help it fall over. You found issue with the fact that I used companies to analogise my experiences, well done in finding a fault with the analogy, I'm very pleased for you.

My point was that as a consumer, I should have the same if not MORE rights than a business, and I should certainly have agencies, authorities and avenues to make my concerns known so as to highlight the malpractice of companies that sell to me. It regulates and rationalises the practices of companies and keeps them in check, so that no other people are avoidably misled.
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"The criticism is certainly hypocritical coming from a land where people can (rightly or wrongly) attempt to sue fast-food companies for making them fat..."

Doesn't this sound like criticism? What if I said a person from a region where people throw bananas at soccer players because they are not white has no right to bring up something like suing fast food companies?
 
Rogifan said:
nah I just think governments have bigger issues to worry about than Apple's iPad advertising. But now that Apple is the most valuable coomapny in the world everything they do is going to be under the microscope. Tim Cook farts and someone will complain he's contributing to global warming.
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the ASA and Ofcom in the UK are both independent, nothing to do with the government.

you've shown what side you are on unfortunately you are wrong, Apple should never have called it the WiFi+4G anywhere apart from North America, they should have just called it the WiFi+3G like all the other years.
 
Is Apple naïve? Me thinks not and they deserve being on the receiving end. Launching a "4G" device worldwide that is only "4G" in North American is not what one expects from a world-class company.

Having said that, the real issue is the screwed up carrier business and their pet, pathetic, sorry-excuse-of regulators. The so-called standard organisations (a glorified collection of regulators) aren't any better.

How is it possible that to this very day that we can't all get along on unique, compatible, worldwide frequency allocations?

The only answer I can find (and a pretty cynical one at that) is carrier wishing to lock customers in through incompatible technology.
 
sclawis300 said:
"The criticism is certainly hypocritical coming from a land where people can (rightly or wrongly) attempt to sue fast-food companies for making them fat..."

Doesn't this sound like criticism? What if I said a person from a region where people throw bananas at soccer players because they are not white has no right to bring up something like suing fast food companies?
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You can't say that if you're from America. You're stupid, drive a muscle car, and do nothing intelligent.

Now get back to your life in the colonies.
 
KnightWRX said:
Hum, there's about 3 tracks where I can drive their car going 100+ mph in a lesser than 30 minute drive from my house. Pretty much every country where cars are sold have motorsport tracks where you can go for track days.

Notice how they never show 100+ mph on public roads in their advertising.
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According to that logic, you can get on a plane and use 4G in the US and Canada, too.
 
Slovak said:
According to that logic, you can get on a plane and use 4G in the US and Canada, too.
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Not exactly the same thing. Again, car manufacturers don't show you their cars going 100 mph+ on public roads (at least not here in their advertising).

Not to mention there's nothing actually preventing the car from doing it on a public road. Heck, I've gone down roads at that speed.

But the analogy does not apply. No matter how hard I try, there's no way to use 4G LTE in the UK.
 
Apple can't have it both ways... They can't come out blazing with a marketing campaign partially centred around the 'WiFi + 4G' line, then in the fine print state that this critical feature isn't supported anywhere outside North America. It's frankly ridiculous...

Some might be interested to know that Apple's lawyers here in Australia have come out with the "HSPA+ is 4G" line, yet this is clearly contradicted by Apple's fine print, which itself defines 4G as LTE.

The biggest problem - the lack of new features Apple has included in this iteration. I'm not complaining, I think it's an awesome product and I just got one the other day. But the only new things here really are the Retina Display and 4G capabilities. There's also the A5X, but even Apple realises that they can't boast about this beyond "four times the graphics capabilities". To lose the ability to quip "4G" around the world is effectively halving Apple's marketing strategy with this update IMO.

Will it be an issue for them trying to sell this device, absolutely not. They will see anyway, so I don't get the issue with doing the right thing by the consumer. If this was Samsung or Nokia or anyone, Apple would be all over it...

Edit - sorry, forgot to weigh in on the car example. My hypothetical parallel: Car Company A states that the fuel economy of their latest vehicle is 1L/100km (ie extraordinarily low) 'around the world', but in the fine print specifies that this is on a specific type of futuristic road located only in a small town in North America. I cannot reasonably expect to gain 1L/100km fuel efficiency in any situation outside of that small town, so am being promised excellent performance that I cannot hope to gain. Apple here is promising speeds that I cannot reasonably hope to gain. The advertising makes me (the average home consumer, sat in my lounge room watching the ads) think that this product will yield better performance than others, when this is simply not the case. That's misleading.
 
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rum said:
How is it possible that to this very day that we can't all get along on unique, compatible, worldwide frequency allocations?

The only answer I can find (and a pretty cynical one at that) is carrier wishing to lock customers in through incompatible technology.
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Its not possible because American networks won't use the same technologies and frequencies as the rest of the world.
 
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