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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:31 AM   #26
GunZi
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isn't smaller = better

if it's smaller can't there fit more hardware inside?
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:32 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Consultant View Post
Exactly. And Apple's proposed sim would be backwards compatible!
exactly, I'm unsure 'how much' would be gained over a micro sim, but if one has to win apple's looks the much better solution,
but I question the need for a 'sim tray' to use it, it could easily be used in phones without a tray using a 'door' or such to hold it down, at least in rival phones where the back comes off.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:32 AM   #28
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Don't care about what SIM cards are used TBH, but.. Apple don't stoop so low as to break voting rules!!!
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:34 AM   #29
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C'mon really? I think Micro-Sims are small enough, we're at the point where Phones are actually getting bigger, not the other way around.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:35 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by androiphone View Post
powerless in the vote yes, but powerful to know and argue which I would prefer to see in potentially my next phone.

and after reading the Verges article I much much prefer Apple's solution, purely I can use an adaptor for older phones, nokia's solution I could not.



it's even more important, many a time I have purposely used my old nokia n95 on a night out because I don't mind (as much) if it gets stolen, I'd be devastated if my iPhone was stolen, plus thieves specifically target iPhone users.

but in all honesty I would say micro sim is small enough how much more battery capacity would you get from using a nano sim?
Who told you, you cannot use an adapter with Nokia's solution? I think, adapters can be made for either solution. I guess, until now, you must have been saying that Apple's solution was better since it saves space. Now you find out that it doesn't save space, so came up with another reason.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:42 AM   #31
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Nokia has a point on Apple's design idea.

Quote:
Another ETSI requirement for the 4FF standard reads:
The design of the fourth UICC form factor shall prevent the 4FF from becoming jammed in a Mini-UICC reader. An example is that if the 4FF is turned 90 degrees and it fits perfectly into the Mini-UICC reader (4FF length = Mini-UICC width).
Nokia contends that Apple's design violates that requirement, and it's easy to see why: its nano-SIM is roughly 12mm long while the existing micro-SIM is 12mm wide, giving users the opportunity to jam a nano-SIM sideways into a micro-SIM slot and get it hopelessly stuck. It's a scenario that the ETSI's documentation specifically calls out.
I'm not to keen on Nokia or RIM and their MicroSD card style SIM either. I don't see how a backward compatible adapter could be made for this design.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Apple is also coming under fire from the other participants in the negotiations, with Research in Motion accusing Apple of hiding its efforts to stack the voting panel by having at least three of its employees re-register for voting purposes as representatives of various carriers. It is unclear exactly what Apple's justification is for changing the registered affiliations of its representatives ahead of the previously-planned voting.
Deep pockets make for shallow morals it would seem.
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Last edited by daxomni; Mar 30, 2012 at 11:55 AM.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:54 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by djdover View Post
<chant>Sim-less, sim-less!</chant>
Actually, just last year I was shocked when a Japanese exchange student of mine told me that in Japan they DON'T use SIM-cards.

Every phone has a unique identifier -- and apparently, at least in Japan, they use this ID as THE sim card. Really, all a sim card is (in smart phones) is an ID that communicates with the telco and gets permission to make and accept calls. Back in the old days SIM cards would also be used to hold contact data etc. but this has all since been passed on to the device's internal storage.

Every wonder how you can still use a sim-less phone to call emergency numbers?

So yeah -- SIM-lessness is possible, but you'd have to get networks the world over to do business nicely with each other. Can you imagine a person switching from one network to the other and the amount of work the networks will have to process then -- rather than just relying on easily-swappable SIM cards? Yeah, that'll be the day.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:57 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hary536 View Post
Seems you don't read the articles fully or don't follow the story correctly.
In the leaked docs, it was shown that Apple's proposal actually increases the total area of the sim area(with the required tray). So though actual Sim size is smaller, it requires a tray which in turn increases the space rather than what many uninformed folks like you believe.
Go and read the leaked documents on The Verge or on MacRumors.(not sure, if it was published here).
Nokia's design actually reduces the total sim area giving the benefit of more space for battery and other components as you mentioned.
Open your eyes and ears and then comment.



----------



Go and read the actual leaked docs and then see whose design actually frees up the space. You will be surprised to know that you were sleeping till now.

point taken! rather bluntly though lol.. and maybe i was sleeping im about 10 hours ahead of you so... middle of the night for me
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hary536 View Post
Seems you don't read the articles fully or don't follow the story correctly.
In the leaked docs, it was shown that Apple's proposal actually increases the total area of the sim area(with the required tray). So though actual Sim size is smaller, it requires a tray which in turn increases the space rather than what many uninformed folks like you believe.
Go and read the leaked documents on The Verge or on MacRumors.(not sure, if it was published here).
Nokia's design actually reduces the total sim area giving the benefit of more space for battery and other components as you mentioned.
Open your eyes and ears and then comment.



----------



Go and read the actual leaked docs and then see whose design actually frees up the space. You will be surprised to know that you were sleeping till now.
Perhaps Apple has more going on with that tray than just the sim...

http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/tech-nfc/

There is also the probability that Nokia's entry is violation IP from the Secure Digital Organization as a representative from SanDisk stated.

http://www.electronista.com/articles....to.divisions/

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Old Mar 30, 2012, 11:59 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by theanimaster View Post
Actually, just last year I was shocked when a Japanese exchange student of mine told me that in Japan they DON'T use SIM-cards.
Don't they use a form of CDMA that is incompatible with virtually every other country on earth?
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:04 PM   #37
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Going to lose these

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Originally Posted by FFArchitect View Post
Can we get a grain of rice next to it?
They are way too small! I hope they won't be making sim cards any smaller in the future. People who travel will be losing these for sure.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:08 PM   #38
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Harry,

While you appear to follow this issue more closely than others, you also seem rather involved emotionally. A more civil tone would be appreciated by most readers, if not all.

Dave

Quote:
Originally Posted by hary536 View Post
Seems you don't read the articles fully or don't follow the story correctly.
In the leaked docs, it was shown that Apple's proposal actually increases the total area of the sim area(with the required tray). So though actual Sim size is smaller, it requires a tray which in turn increases the space rather than what many uninformed folks like you believe.
Go and read the leaked documents on The Verge or on MacRumors.(not sure, if it was published here).
Nokia's design actually reduces the total sim area giving the benefit of more space for battery and other components as you mentioned.
Open your eyes and ears and then comment.



----------



Go and read the actual leaked docs and then see whose design actually frees up the space. You will be surprised to know that you were sleeping till now.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:12 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daxomni View Post
Don't they use a form of CDMA that is incompatible with virtually every other country on earth?
Most probably.

But even if they didn't, the SIM card really isn't anything more than digital ID.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:19 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by fruitycups View Post
Wirelessly posted

Companies r so greedy. They never think in terms of happiness but profit
They think of happiness...of the shareholders and hopefully employees. They can't sacrifice profit to make people feel all warm a fuzzy. They'd go out of business. Besides, Nokia could probably use all the money it can get.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:25 PM   #41
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Why don't they just make it so you pair your phone with a SIM card via an external adapter? That way you don't need to keep the physical SIM card inside your phone.

https://twitter.com/#!/shurcooL/stat...55837651972097
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:28 PM   #42
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Wirelessly posted

I think this is a way that Microsoft (through Nokia) can foil Apples design plans using a smaller chip. Apple is offering the card royalty free and most carriers support their design. Typical Microsoft, late to the game and holding things up for their own gain.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimaster View Post
Can you imagine a person switching from one network to the other and the amount of work the networks will have to process then
It seems like an internal ROM could be flashed to change the necessary data, a sort of virtual SIM card. I really don't see the point of an external SIM card except for customers who want to use multiple phones with a single account (and I doubt there are an overwhelming number of those customers).
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:40 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by djdover View Post
<chant>Sim-less, sim-less!</chant>
I'd go for carrier-less. WiFi Networks EVERYWHERE!!
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 12:42 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by hary536 View Post
Who told you, you cannot use an adapter with Nokia's solution? I think, adapters can be made for either solution. I guess, until now, you must have been saying that Apple's solution was better since it saves space. Now you find out that it doesn't save space, so came up with another reason.
sorry what? until you told us how to find out what each proposed sim looked like I was completely unaware and frankly had no opinion (how could I without knowing what they were).

I would assume that an adapter could be made for nokias solution but it would have to be a complex adaptor with connection pass-throughs and not just a bit of plastic like how microsims are made full size now.

I will take an apology for your derogatory and disrespectful tone, how dare you assume anything about me, but I feel you have shown exactly the type of person you are in your post.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 01:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimaster
Can you imagine a person switching from one network to the other and the amount of work the networks will have to process then
is that not what pac codes are for
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 01:23 PM   #47
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Just ditch the bloody SIM card, it's past-millenia technology, and unify the damn internet with the phone network. Give users a username and a password, and let's forget about fiddling with 2 phones or swapping stupid annoying tiny SIM cards from one phone to the other at the airport while trying to carry 2 super heavy bags without dropping the damn phones (of which one is made entirely of glass) or the SIM card. I do this 6 times a year and I can tell you that in the 21st century this is very out of place.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 01:26 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by androiphone View Post
as long as you can use an adaptor to make it a full size sim card so you can switch it to any other phone, I don't care which one wins.

I definitely never ever want no sim at all, what do you do if you you want to take a cheap rubbish phone on a night out?
Go to your carrier's website >> Activate phone >> Enter ESN >> Done. I used to do it all the time. It may be a pain in the butt, but it works! What we need is a simpler system.
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Old Mar 30, 2012, 01:28 PM   #49
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There is an easy solution to this. The rights holders could be paid a one-time fee from Apple with it's deep pockets and its advocacy for a particular design as consideration. That way they would not be giving up money, only future cash flows and IP management overhead.

Done.

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Old Mar 30, 2012, 01:36 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Consultant View Post
So apple wants to use the existing SIM card contacts (but smaller)
but the competitors want to switch to a new proprietary card

I am guessing the competitors is seeking new licensing fees?
What's happening is Apple is trying to seek more votes than they have, putting them in a winning position. If they win, the deal is they offer their design royalty free, but in exchange, anyone that Apple has a licensing deal with had to offer their patents for free.

In essence, if this goes through Apple will have successfully strong-armed their competitors into "letting" Apple use their IP for free. Apple won't "make" money, but they'll "save" money. As the expression goes, a penny saved is a penny earned.

Apple's competition - e.g. every other phone company - doesn't like this because they 1) Make money off of their IP, and 2) because Apple's idea is arguably worse. The only thing gained by siding with Apple is lost IP revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimaster View Post
Actually, just last year I was shocked when a Japanese exchange student of mine told me that in Japan they DON'T use SIM-cards.

Every phone has a unique identifier -- and apparently, at least in Japan, they use this ID as THE sim card. Really, all a sim card is (in smart phones) is an ID that communicates with the telco and gets permission to make and accept calls. Back in the old days SIM cards would also be used to hold contact data etc. but this has all since been passed on to the device's internal storage.

Every wonder how you can still use a sim-less phone to call emergency numbers?

So yeah -- SIM-lessness is possible, but you'd have to get networks the world over to do business nicely with each other. Can you imagine a person switching from one network to the other and the amount of work the networks will have to process then -- rather than just relying on easily-swappable SIM cards? Yeah, that'll be the day.
I can store contact information and text messages on my SIM, and I do. I realize that I'm in the minority, but it's nice to have all the same. I'd be sad if that functionality went away.
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