MBA vs MBP 2012

Risasi said:

Hmm, I wonder. What about a 13" 16:9 screen, stuffed into the current 11" MBA chassis?

- 11" MBA w/ 1600x900 13" screen
- 5.5 - 6.5 hours battery life
- option for 6GB or 8GB of memory
- HD 4000 graphics on a 1.7ghz dual core Ivy Bridge chip.
- just make sure TB and USB 3.0 are on there
- wireless air card ready
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$1300 - $1500


Feasable? And would you buy?

P.S. I'm guessing this might be a little difficult to achieve an extra hour of battery life, trying to drive a 13" screen off of an 11" MBA's current battery.

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I dont think you can squeeze a 13" into the 11" chassis, but you can certainly make it 12" into the current 11", and 14" into the current 13".

And yes, I would buy the specs you listed in a heartbeat, specially if it's in the shape of the 11" chassis.

Skoopman said:

You know the 13" display would draw a lot more power than a 11"? I don't see the 5+ hours battery life happening that way unless Apple did some magic with the new batteries.

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Uh, yeah. That was in my P.S.
Need to figure out what the battery life would be, but I'll bet it's bad enough it's not worth doing.

EDIT: I found it; 35w hour for the 11" battery vs 50w hour for the 13" battery. That makes me wonder what the power draw would be on a 13" screen, might not be as bad as I thought. Maccrazy has an article where they claim 25% more power draw on the 13" screen. With a more efficient IB CPU that probably works out to be just a slight loss in runtime.




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KohPhiPhi said:

I dont think you can squeeze a 13" into the 11" chassis, but you can certainly make it 12" into the current 11", and 14" into the current 13".

And yes, I would buy the specs you listed in a heartbeat, specially if it's in the shape of the 11" chassis.

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Well, it could work on paper. The 13" MBA is 16:10, whereas the current 11" is 16:9. But I woke up this morning and almost immediately realized the big hang up must be power. Battery life is a balancing act.

nope, there is a clear market for slim ultraportable laptops. intel has bet hundreds of millions on it, so i don't think a slimmer mbp will have any effect on the mba.

rockyroad55 said:

They need to improve the resolution of the screen if they keep the 13" Pro around.

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Wouldn't it be great to see a retina screen in a 13" laptop?

Although if they did merge the 13" air and pro, I'm curious on how they would prioritize the thinness, functionality and speed?

Would they just cancel the pro and use the air form factor as thin as possible? Or would they give a little extra thickness for cpu, ports and battery?

My guess, they'll take the air and include a spec upgrade to fast processor and RAM and cancel the 13" pro straightout.

The 13" pro is completely redundant. I can def see the Pro line going thin tho! With the extra width there would be enough room for the discrete graphics card. The pros are just SO thick compared to the airs...its the next logical step!

Risasi said:

Uh, yeah. That was in my P.S.
Need to figure out what the battery life would be, but I'll bet it's bad enough it's not worth doing.

EDIT: I found it; 35w hour for the 11" battery vs 50w hour for the 13" battery. That makes me wonder what the power draw would be on a 13" screen, might not be as bad as I thought. Maccrazy has an article where they claim 25% more power draw on the 13" screen. With a more efficient IB CPU that probably works out to be just a slight loss in runtime.




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Well, it could work on paper. The 13" MBA is 16:10, whereas the current 11" is 16:9. But I woke up this morning and almost immediately realized the big hang up must be power. Battery life is a balancing act.

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The IB CPU's use the same 17W the c2d and SB processors use.

Xgm541 said:

The IB CPU's use the same 17W the c2d and SB processors use.

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http://newsroom.intel.com/community...reinvents-transistors-using-new-3-d-structure

My take:

Mac Air may become smaller because of a reduction in the edges of the bezel around its screen, but the size of the display would remain at 13.3 inches. Macbook Pro may take the current form of the air with a thick bezel around its screen.

Macbook Air may have retina display whereas the pro may have one with and one without retina display.

Air may become sleeker with an improved battery life of perhaps 10 hours, whereas the pro would just have the standard 7 to 8 hours.

Everyone with an existing MBA would then want to get the new MBA 2012, and everyone with an existing MBPro would want the get the newer version.

Pro will go

Hi,

I also think the 13" pro will go the way of the dodo. Here are the current advantages of the 13" pro over the air:

1- optical drive
2- faster processor
3- user swappable memory & SSD
4- faster TB

Of these, 1 is rumoured to go and 3 is of no benefit whatsoever to Apple. So that would leave Apple basically with 2 semi-identical laptops: one with higher specs (faster processor and TB, possibility to sell a wider range of hard drives or SSDs) and another one with more fixed specs.

So either Apple kicks out the 13" pro and replaces it by the 13" Air, which should be plenty capable for 95% of current 13" pro users when it gets Ivy Bridge, more memory and a larger SSD. Or, Apple decides to keep the 13" pro but needs a new differentiator. Because I think it is most likely that all the Airs will get retina displays, the one thing that could differentiate is discrete graphics. There should be plenty of room to do this and to manage battery and heat with the ODD gone. The weird thing about this approach, though, is that the 13" pro would have to get a retina display if the Airs also get them. Otherwise, the 13" pro would still have a worse screen than the 13" Air. But I don't see Apple building 15" and 17" retinas, so that would leave the pro range as a mixed bag.

I don't know what will happen, but it seems most likely to me that the 13" pro will be retired for a better spec Air.


Peter.

I don't think they're gonna get rid of the 13" MBP for the fact that it was introduced over a year AFTER the 13" MBA first came out. It does not seem very Apple-like to introduce a product for only 3 years and replace it with another product that was already in existence.

Risasi said:

http://newsroom.intel.com/community...reinvents-transistors-using-new-3-d-structure

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As far as I know, and my knowledge in this is limited so do take me with a grain of salt, the current sandybridge i7 used in the mba is rated at 17W TDP (the lower model) while the higher model is rated at 25W. (http://ark.intel.com/products/54615/Intel-Core-i7-2657M-Processor-(4M-Cache-up-to-2_70-GHz))

And the new ivy bridge have the same 17W TDP.



Which means that my point is still valid as both SB and IB have the same TDP but as your article points out the performance vs tdp ratio is better in IB. But the battery requirements will likely not go down in the new model.

Again, this is my understanding and it may very well be incorrect.

Xgm541 said:

As far as I know, and my knowledge in this is limited so do take me with a grain of salt, the current sandybridge i7 used in the mba is rated at 17W TDP (the lower model) while the higher model is rated at 25W. (http://ark.intel.com/products/54615/Intel-Core-i7-2657M-Processor-(4M-Cache-up-to-2_70-GHz))

And the new ivy bridge have the same 17W TDP.

Image

Which means that my point is still valid as both SB and IB have the same TDP but as your article points out the performance vs tdp ratio is better in IB. But the battery requirements will likely not go down in the new model.

Again, this is my understanding and it may very well be incorrect.

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TDP just has to do with thermal design limits.


With tri-gate 22nm vs the old 32nm technology we should see better efficiency when actually using the CPU. (i.e. it burns less juice to crunch some numbers than when doing the same on SB, it will also finish faster due to performance gains).
Take note, this is Intel claiming this, which isn't saying much with a long history of empty promises. However SB was real. It's amazing to me the balance of performance and efficiency found in that design.



Last night I measured power usage of my MBA 13" and my MBP 13", both Sandy Bridge, both running wifi, browser open. BT disabled. The MBP also has an OWC 120GB SSD.
- The device used to measure was a kill-a-watt with the corresponding power adapter plugged into it.
-At half bright the MBP was pulling 24-27w, the MBA was pulling 29-31w. At full bright the MBP jumped to 29-30w. The MBA went to 39-41w.

I can't really explain why my MBP was pulling less juice...



My point? At idle I think the screen definitely matters more than the CPU. When using it and actually burning CPU cycles you're using more power. Yeah, they probably won't realize a lot of extra battery life, under use I anticipate maybe an hour extra battery life on the 11", maybe an hour and a half for the 13's. Another possibility is they take the power savings and shrink the battery size a bit. 20% reduction in weight and size would be appealing, but I would take the extra battery.

I do know this, under typical business usage (for me), I get about 7.5-8 hours out of my MBP. About 6.5 out of the 13" MBA. And I haven't tested the 11" MBA thoroughly enough, about would guess I would get a solid 4-4.5 hours for my typical day. This is a couple notches about half-bright (depends on what office I find myself in that day).

Anyway, assuming there is still a 13" MBP this year it's going to be a contest between it and the 11" Air. If they find a way to sneak an extra hour into the 11" MBA I'm leaning heavily toward that.

I love how the Airs look! In my opinion, its the best looking Laptop ever created. I dont care who you ask, it looks really damn nice.
I am getting a laptop at the end of this year. This year will be a big year for Mac's. Im hoping that the 13 inch air, by the end of the year, will get a higher (retina!) screen. Mountain Lion implements HiDPi mode, and with the iPad getting a higher resolution than a TV, Apple would be insane not to finally implement them in their Mac hardware as well! To be honest, we might see them in the Pros first, but by the end of the year, we will see them Across the entire Macbook line. With Ultrabooks getting better by the day, a Retina Screen is SURE to boost the Macbook air's sales.


Even if they put it in the Pro's first, we have no need to worry, because by the end of the year, Apple's Nicest Laptops will get the Retina Treatment as well

As for the whole "no more 13 inch Pro" suggestions, I think that is a big possibility. The Macbook air has a better design than the Pros, which are thick compared to the Air. PLus with Ivy Bridge, a bigger battery, ect, the Air will be JUST as good as the Pro. Who would want a pro when the Air can be just as good? The Air is Cannibalizing the Pro's sales. Time to put an end to the Pro's misery, and let the 15 and 17 inch Pro's hold the "Professional" name

I dont think a refresh for the Airs are as close as the pros (which is rumored to be this Month!). The Airs will Probably get a spec bump with Ivy Bridge, (and hopefully retina) at the same Keynote that Mountain Lion is released.

Its time for the macs to get some special treatment!

Yggbert said:

The 13" Pro in its current form is ridiculous. 1280x800 in 2011? Pro? Come on.

Can't believe people buy that model. It needs to go or match the 13" Air in resolution, why it doesn't already is a bit weird.

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I think the reason people buy the 13" Pro currently is because of the lack of an 8GB+ RAM option on the Air. The 13" Pro is still relatively portable (for sure more so than the 15" Pro) and you have to jump up to the 15" Pro in order to get the better resolution screen. That is a huge increase in price and a decrease in portability.

MBP 13inch not dead yet

IMHO the 13inch Pro will stick around for at least a little while longer.

The main reason is that since Apple killed off the white macbook they really don't have any other general purpose budget computer except for the 13inch MBP.

Think about it. A college student or other person who wants ONE computer for everything and doesn't want to spend a fortune is probably looking at the 13inch MBP or a 13inch MBA.

The base model 13inch MBA is $100 more expensive that the Pro and offers only 128GB of storage which even for a general consumer is a little on the low side especially if this is your only computer. To get what might be considered only adequate storage you have to spend A LOT more. $1600 is no longer an entry level machine for a lot of people.

The 13inch MBP offers a flexible capable machine for a low price. I know Apple doesn't care too much about price sensitive customers but I think the reason why they were comfortable knocking off the white macbook was not because the MBA could be the new consumer computer but because they realized most people shopping for a white macbook would just as easily get a 13inch MBP and be just as happy. This is probably also why they have left the 1280x800 resolution the way it was.

The 13inch MBP is actually below the 13inch MBA in terms of "Pro-ness" (aka for the elite consumer) in Apple's mind. Until SSD prices get low enough to change this I think the 13inch MBP will stick around. Hopefully it drops the optical drive loses 0.5 lbs and retains large storage options. I still haven't decided which I value more - upgradable storage and ram or a super light computer...decisions decisions...