Apple TV's A5 Chip Includes Surprise Die Shrink to 32nm [Updated: Same Chip Found in iPad 2]

[nick_elt]

Ahh yes. The 7.85" ipad. All coming together.

[guspasho]

Originally Posted by chrmjenkins

You're comparing flash and magnetic media. Completely different.

True, but it's essentially an unimportant distinction to the user. This is a point that Apple usually cares about- hide the innards because they don't matter to the user. In that context, it's a perfectly valid point, and by Apple's own standards. Capacity is all that matters.

[WLS]

Looks like this is for the "new" iPad2 and any possible mini iPad along with the ATV.
A new Touch would likely get it also. I would not assume that this is going into the new iPhone although it could go into the 4s.
This new A5 seems to be made for cost cutting and power saving. I think the iPhone will get the A6

[milo]

Originally Posted by Small White Car

Yeah. It seems like everyone out there wants to make an 'iPhone killer' and an 'iPad killer' but hardly anyone cares about even making an iPod competitor, even.

I find it hard to understand. How many kids with iPod touches are going to eventually move on to iPhones just because it's the path of least resistance? I seriously don't understand the lack of phone-less Android devices.

Isn't that exactly the niche Kindle Fire is targeting?

I've always said it's closer to the touch than anything else from apple, and I suspect those are the sales it will most effect. Apple has let the touch coast for a while now but now it has some actual competition, so hopefully they'll make it competitive again.

[nick_elt]

Originally Posted by bse3

My sources close to Apple indeed indicate that the iPhone 5 will feature a battery!

Im no analyst but maybe to solve the battery issues they might scrap it and keep it mains powered?

[chrmjenkins]

Originally Posted by guspasho

True, but it's essentially an unimportant distinction to the user. This is a point that Apple usually cares about- hide the innards because they don't matter to the user. In that context, it's a perfectly valid point, and by Apple's own standards. Capacity is all that matters.

Valid point, so here's probably what happened.

1) They could get limited quantity of the 64GB NAND chips, so they all went to iPhones
or 2) They determined potential sales of a 128GB iPod touch didn't make sense in their market given potential pricing for said device.
or 3) They simply didn't want to add yet another size and SKU to the iPod touch lineup.

Originally Posted by jlc1978

Test runs while gearing up for a smaller A5X?

Could be, but I doubt for the next iPhone, given there's already a name out there for an 'A6' chip and the GPU power doesn't make sense for the 960x640 screen.

[nutmac]

My theory is that these new A5s are ultimately destined for 6th generation iPhone. Bad yields (one bad core) are being used on Apple TV. Good yields are being stockpiled for new iPhone.

[chrmjenkins]

Originally Posted by nutmac

My theory is that these new A5s are ultimately destined for 6th generation iPhone. Bad yields (one bad core) are being used on Apple TV. Good yields are being stockpiled for new iPhone.

Nope. Someone already posted that the fully functional dual cores are already being used in the low cost iPad 2.

Originally Posted by kiranmk2

New chip in lower cost iPad 2:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/5742/a...a5-s5l8942-soc

[WatchTheThrone]

This chip WILL be in the 6th Gen iPhone.
The new iPhone will practically be a 4S with new outer design and die shrunk A5 for better battery life and a bigger battery because of bigger screen and LTE.
THAT'S MY PREDICTION YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST LOL

[Small White Car]

Originally Posted by milo

Isn't that exactly the niche Kindle Fire is targeting?

I've always said it's closer to the touch than anything else from apple, and I suspect those are the sales it will most effect. Apple has let the touch coast for a while now but now it has some actual competition, so hopefully they'll make it competitive again.

A little bit, but it's not exactly pocketable. Honestly, a 10 year old would want an iPod more than a Kindle, I think. Smaller really is better for that exact demographic.

And even if it IS targeting them, that's what...1 device? There are dozens and dozens of devices going after the iPad. The imbalance is still very lopsided.

[macrumors12345]

Working out any issues with the new process before release of the iPhone 5?

[Mac_Max]

Originally Posted by bobborries

Could a software hack turn the 2nd processor on in the Apple TV?

Its possible but unlikely. Usually the fab will blow fuses/laser gates that disable the CPU. This is very common in GPUs where they not only test new parts on new processes but derive a lot of submodels from a single part by disabling functional units.

[chrmjenkins]

Originally Posted by Mac_Max

Its possible but unlikely. Usually the fab will blow fuses/laser gates that disable the CPU. This is very common in GPUs where they not only test new parts on new processes but derive a lot of submodels from a single part by disabling functional units.

AMD didn't with the 6950's, hence a lot of 6950's unlocked to become 6970's.

[Eidorian]

Originally Posted by Small White Car

Yeah. It seems like everyone out there wants to make an 'iPhone killer' and an 'iPad killer' but hardly anyone cares about even making an iPod competitor, even.

I find it hard to understand. How many kids with iPod touches are going to eventually move on to iPhones just because it's the path of least resistance? I seriously don't understand the lack of phone-less Android devices.

Samsung's Galaxy Player comes close with GPS and an FM radio over the Touch. Then again in the $200-300 range there enough Android phone options to choose from. You are stuck on Gingerbread for the majority of them though.

2012 is going to be interesting with more budget dual core options , A15, and Tegra 3+/4. Maybe Google and vendors can get more ICS hardware before 5.0 is out.

Originally Posted by chrmjenkins

AMD didn't with the 6950's, hence a lot of 6950's unlocked to become 6970's.

I guess they did not fuse them on die but only in BIOS. It was a popular trend when they first came out with few bad results. Maybe a few extra degrees Celsius or watts that AMD did not want to send to the HD 6790 line.

[Riemann Zeta]

So if Apple has a 32nm process A5 working perfectly and in full production, why the hell didn't they use that for the iPad 3? Considering that the A5X is the largest, most power-hungry SoC core ever, wouldn't it have benefited tremendously from a smaller fab--there would be less heat and greater battery life.

[shawnce]

Seems like a perfect way to validate and refine a manufacturing process... lower volumes are needed for AppleTV, it is ok if one core is dead, it could even have memory blocks that could be dead and still fit the requirements, etc.

----------

Originally Posted by Riemann Zeta

So if Apple has a 32nm process A5 working perfectly and in full production

How do you know it is working perfectly and in the volumes even close to what is needed for the iPad 3? ...seeing how it isn't in the iPad 3 I can almost 100% assure you that the process wasn't ready in terms of volume, yield, costs and/or maturity for the newer A5X.

[firewood]

Makes perfect sense to try out a newer higher-risk lower-volume production run on a "hobby" product instead of one's cash-cow revenue stream.

Depending on the leading edge of the semiconductor process roadmap to deliver in volume on time can be quite perilous... (anyone here still waiting for their 4 GHZ G5 PowerBook?)

[C. Alan]

Originally Posted by macrumors12345

Working out any issues with the new process before release of the iPhone 5?

This would be my guess. Put the chip in a low volume device in order to get the kinks out of your manurfacturing process. Then be ready to crank up the production volume for the iPhone 5.

[JHankwitz]

What products would use a dual-core A5? If both cores are good, it would be used in those product. If one of the cores was bad, it would be used in the Apple TV. Great way to make use of defective parts that would normally be scrapped out.

[rimcrazy]

"This is a very complex chip for a relatively low volume part (for Apple); one would think they have greater plans for this new A5 variant."

All of the iPhone 4S volume and iPad2's is low volume.... Is this person on crack?

[chrmjenkins]

Originally Posted by Riemann Zeta

So if Apple has a 32nm process A5 working perfectly and in full production, why the hell didn't they use that for the iPad 3? Considering that the A5X is the largest, most power-hungry SoC core ever, wouldn't it have benefited tremendously from a smaller fab--there would be less heat and greater battery life.

It was likely a combination of too much design risk and not enough fab capacity to make A5X on a 32nm process. I can guarantee they would have wanted to if they could do it sensibly.

Originally Posted by rimcrazy

"This is a very complex chip for a relatively low volume part (for Apple); one would think they have greater plans for this new A5 variant."

All of the iPhone 4S volume and iPad2's is low volume.... Is this person on crack?

There's no evidence to cause us to believe the 4S is using or will use it in the near future.

[shawnce]

Originally Posted by JHankwitz

What products would use a dual-core A5? If both cores are good, it would be used in those product. If one of the cores was bad, it would be used in the Apple TV. Great way to make use of defective parts that would normally be scrapped out.

Exactly

[Lukeyy19]

Originally Posted by bobborries

Could a software hack turn the 2nd processor on in the Apple TV?

What purpose would there be even if it was possible? the Apple TV doesn't do anything remotely close to needing dual core. What do you want to do, play 4 movies at the same time?

[chrmjenkins]

Originally Posted by Lukeyy19

What purpose would there be even if it was possible? the Apple TV doesn't do anything remotely close to needing dual core. What do you want to do, play 4 movies at the same time?

Well, arn did want someone to run 4 movies on the new iPad at once.

[Diode]

Probably to gear up production for a low cost 4s to be released next to the iPhone 5/6/8 or whatever it will be called.