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Old Apr 12, 2012, 12:22 AM   #101
TelevisionTV
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AVCHD is misunderstood by many

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Originally Posted by goodcow View Post
It should let you drag .mts (AVCHD) files directly into a project like Premiere can, without having to wrap them in a QuickTime file.
AVCHD is divided into .mts files because memory cards are formatted FAT32 which can only handle single files up to 4GB in size. Dividing it into .mts files and then re-combining them in software as a format that an NLE can easily work with is a way around that limitation and enables you to shoot for longer than 15 minutes at a time, and enables you to shoot for hours on end.

You have to think of AVCHD as tapeless tape, in that you still must log it.

Dragging .mts files into an NLE is what rookie editors do when they're used to shooting with cameras who's primary function is not to shoot video but still pictures. Many shooter/editors who get paid "professional" rates get so stuck in that DSLR workflow that they freak out when you give them something that was shot on an actual video camera because they never took the time to learn the difference between delivery, shooting and editing formats and they would never survive in an actual professional environment without significant re-education. FCPX is perfect for them because it allows them to edit multiple formats and frame rates, and they still call it "pro" for all of those "pro" wedding videographers who don't use video cameras but still cameras that also shoot video. It puts all that technical stuff in the background, out of their way so they can get to making "professional" movies.
And for us smartie pants folks who watched the industry go from DVCAM to HDV tape formats to solid state AVC- formats, they still have the log and transfer function.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 12:27 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by mBox View Post
Crazy that they are starting to advertise their users again. I think the last one I saw was the Walter Murch one years ago during Cold Mountain.
There have been more recent ones than that w/people like the Coen Brothers, David Fincher and Francis Ford Coppola. I think they stopped doing them around the time FCP6 was released. That time frame only sticks in my head because one of the 'case studies' was an ad agency that used Color on a Jaguar commercial.

Apple didn't even support Murch on Cold Mountain. Murch's AE, Sean Cullen, and Digital Film Tree had to come up with a bunch of home-brew work arounds to make the whole thing work. Apple stayed distant because they didn't think FCP was up to the task at the time.


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Old Apr 12, 2012, 12:50 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by fox10078 View Post
Yes, Make a folder called "Card 1" copy whats on the card exactly as it is, put it on your hard drive and when you tell final cut the location of the card you point to that folder. Final cut will see the File Structure like it would be on the card and start importing.
What I do to archive AVCHD footage is
1. Select the "PRIVATE" folder on the memory card and see how big it is.
2. Make a .dmg on the external drive I archive stuff on that's the same size as the "PRIVATE" folder, formatted as FAT32.
3. Drag that "PRIVATE" folder into the .dmg when it mounts.

That way I can mount the .dmg I want to transfer footage from and I don't have tons of other stuff on that drive in AVCHD folders that will show up in the import from camera window (I started doing this while using FCP 7 because that's the problem I was having with those folders when I would log and transfer footage, I don't know if FCPX has that problem because I still make .dmg files of my stuff.)
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 01:32 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by TelevisionTV View Post
What I do to archive AVCHD footage is
1. Select the "PRIVATE" folder on the memory card and see how big it is.
2. Make a .dmg on the external drive I archive stuff on that's the same size as the "PRIVATE" folder, formatted as FAT32.
3. Drag that "PRIVATE" folder into the .dmg when it mounts.

That way I can mount the .dmg I want to transfer footage from and I don't have tons of other stuff on that drive in AVCHD folders that will show up in the import from camera window (I started doing this while using FCP 7 because that's the problem I was having with those folders when I would log and transfer footage, I don't know if FCPX has that problem because I still make .dmg files of my stuff.)
I'll have to do that. Excellent idea that way it will mount like a card
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:31 AM   #105
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For me it does not support just because it shows a picture . For me it supports when it's fully functional and useful in a professional manner. I'm sure they will fix it - Apple and BM - but it's not supporting today - for me.
We just have different views on what "support" means. That's ok.

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Originally Posted by djrockadoo View Post
Jorgus - It does support those cards. Im using the Decklink Extreme 3D card right now, and the update did indeed improve performance. Not perfect and not ready for client review, but getting there.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 11:02 AM   #106
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The whole "pro" category is a mess anyways, because the guys working with "Recorded live in front of a studio audience" are different than feature film producers, who have different needs than commercial houses, music video production, Special-effect-heavy tv series, internet video, gaming cinematics, etc. etc.

It would be nice if people who complain that FCPX is missing or incapable of performing a "Pro" feature would specify exactly which feature and for what industry.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 11:53 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by darthraige View Post
It's still crap. This is no longer a "PRO" app. Bring back the old interface and maybe I'll reconsider. Until then, CRAP!
I own and run two production houses, and we're in the middle of switching much of our workflow over to FCPX. We also cut on FCP7, Premier, and Avid. We use what the job and client require, and I can't be more excited about FCPX. It's different sure, but not pro? Hardly.

I have no problem with anyone not liking FCPX. The reasons are obvious. Being a first generation program, it's understandably not ready for many professional uses. Apple made this a problem with the horrible way they launched the program. They should have done a better job communicating that this was a first gen product, and I would have liked to see them release a beta version with FCP7 still supported. Taking FCP7 off the shelves the same day was a huge mistake. So I get it. FCPX is aggravating for a lot of people. It's a lot of new stuff to get used to, and a lot of pro features to have to wait for.

But as someone who regularly sub-contracts videographers and editors, when I see someone posting a bunch of nonsensical fanboy knee-jerk reactions like that, I don't hire them. I hire professionals, not fanboys. Sorry.

And I'm sure you're thinking, "Well I wouldn't work for you anyway!" You're probably right, but you will want to work for someone, and that someone, whoever they are, if they're professional, won't appreciate these kinds of uninformed, unproductive arguments.

Dicklacara is correct. "The true "pro" is defined by his abilities... not the tools he uses!"
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 01:55 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
I have no problem with anyone not liking FCPX. The reasons are obvious. Being a first generation program, it's understandably not ready for many professional uses. Apple made this a problem with the horrible way they launched the program. They should have done a better job communicating that this was a first gen product, and I would have liked to see them release a beta version with FCP7 still supported. Taking FCP7 off the shelves the same day was a huge mistake. So I get it. FCPX is aggravating for a lot of people. It's a lot of new stuff to get used to, and a lot of pro features to have to wait for.
I think this pretty much sums up the problem with FCPX. I am an admitted amature user of the old Final Cut Express (I primariliy use it to cut together videos for my Church), and I have stayed away from FCPX due to lack of multi-cam support. I know FCE does not support mulit-cam either, but it has always been on my 'wish list' of features.

I think as FCPX matures, and if it stays at the current price point, alot more folks both pros and amatures will adopt it.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 02:13 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by C. Alan View Post
I have stayed away from FCPX due to lack of multi-cam support. I know FCE does not support mulit-cam either, but it has always been on my 'wish list' of features.
Well then Happy Birthday!!! You should check this out...

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/software-update.html
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 02:17 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
Well then Happy Birthday!!! You should check this out...

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/software-update.html
Heck its even up to 10.0.4
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 02:17 PM   #111
Boisv
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C. Alan View Post
I think as FCPX matures, and if it stays at the current price point, alot more folks both pros and amatures will adopt it.
I agree. I think that within three years the joke is going to be how everyone wrote Final Cut off in 2011. It's not going anywhere. I already see a big shift in how professionals are approaching it. The features that have been reinstated with the first two updates are doing a lot to stem the tide. Apple did a terrible job launching this program, but they're doing a pretty good job of damage control. They seem to be listening to the complaints and addressing them. Lets hope that they continue on this path.

I just don't believe all the hullabaloo about Apple supposedly abandoning the professional market. I'll believe it when I see it.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 02:29 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
Well then Happy Birthday!!! You should check this out...

http://www.apple.com/finalcutpro/software-update.html
That is what I was looking for... Now I just need to justify this with the local finance comittee (aka The Wife).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
I just don't believe all the hullabaloo about Apple supposedly abandoning the professional market. I'll believe it when I see it.
I think alot of this 'hullabaloo' is also coming from the fact that Apple has let the Mac Pro get stale. It has not been updated in over a year.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 02:41 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by C. Alan View Post
That is what I was looking for... Now I just need to justify this with the local finance comittee (aka The Wife).

----------



I think alot of this 'hullabaloo' is also coming from the fact that Apple has let the Mac Pro get stale. It has not been updated in over a year.
Haha well technically longer than that
Hey, just say you bought Angry Birds X for $299 USD in iTunes
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:03 PM   #114
Boisv
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Originally Posted by C. Alan View Post
That is what I was looking for... Now I just need to justify this with the local finance comittee (aka The Wife).

I know the feeling. Good luck.
----------



I think alot of this 'hullabaloo' is also coming from the fact that Apple has let the Mac Pro get stale. It has not been updated in over a year.
That's a good point. I do see why people are saying that Apple is leaving us behind, and it's largely Apple's fault. They could certainly be doing more to show us that they still care.

If Apple drops the Mac Pro line, as some have predicted, then I might start to believe it.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:09 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
I just don't believe all the hullabaloo about Apple supposedly abandoning the professional market. I'll believe it when I see it.
Abandoned might be too dramatic of a word, but I do think Apple refocused on a lower end of the market when they launched FCPX. While I certainly don't think they are actively shunning the high end they certainly aren't trying to cater to them. Apple seems to waffle about how deep down the post production rabbit hole they really want to go (Shake, Color, DVD SP, Final Cut Server... etc.,) and FCP X is just the latest example. IMO if Apple was really concerned about retaining high end users then features like multicam and broadcast monitoring would've been in 10.0.0 and Import from iMovie and Share to CNN iReport would've been added later. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if I'm launching a brand new product I'm targeting my core demo first and working out from their.

Apple's not like most other companies though. Apple makes products and expects people to come to them. Apple, at least Apple under Jobs, very rarely solicited outside opinions and even when they did those opinions would be ignored if they didn't mesh w/the direction Apple wanted to go. For better or for worse Apple doesn't need high end users in order to survive (Unlike Adobe, Avid, Autodesk, etc.,) so Apple isn't beholden to the needs of high end users. Adobe and Avid have retooled their software into modern, 64-bit code w/o throwing the baby out w/the bathwater because they can't afford to alienate their entire user base. Apple can afford to take more risks because if FCPX fails it probably won't even impact their stock price.


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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:14 PM   #116
mBox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
That's a good point. I do see why people are saying that Apple is leaving us behind, and it's largely Apple's fault. They could certainly be doing more to show us that they still care.

If Apple drops the Mac Pro line, as some have predicted, then I might start to believe it.
Well the marketing ploy released today is a positive direction. It got the same flack as any other Apple release but any news is good news

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
Abandoned might be too dramatic of a word, but I do think Apple refocused on a lower end of the market when they launched FCPX...
Its like they moved the pro-division into the iPod Nano dept
I wonder what kind world would it be if last years release was simple FCP 8.
We wouldnt have all these heated discussions period.
Ive been in so many different forums and have had many online fist-fights and starting to enjoy it
I feel so ALIVE!!
LOL!
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:33 PM   #117
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Compressor seems to have been improved, e.g., the in/out points. It works better now, especially there are no in/out points on the timeline.

Anyway, I like FCPX. I don't care who hates/likes FCPX or any other NLE. Everybody exists in their own cage, that's all that matters.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 03:42 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by mBox View Post
Ive been in so many different forums and have had many online fist-fights and starting to enjoy it
I feel so ALIVE!!
LOL!
It's like Fight Club but for geek editors.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 04:36 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
Abandoned might be too dramatic of a word, but I do think Apple refocused on a lower end of the market when they launched FCPX. While I certainly don't think they are actively shunning the high end they certainly aren't trying to cater to them. Apple seems to waffle about how deep down the post production rabbit hole they really want to go (Shake, Color, DVD SP, Final Cut Server... etc.,) and FCP X is just the latest example. IMO if Apple was really concerned about retaining high end users then features like multicam and broadcast monitoring would've been in 10.0.0 and Import from iMovie and Share to CNN iReport would've been added later. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but if I'm launching a brand new product I'm targeting my core demo first and working out from their.

Apple's not like most other companies though. Apple makes products and expects people to come to them. Apple, at least Apple under Jobs, very rarely solicited outside opinions and even when they did those opinions would be ignored if they didn't mesh w/the direction Apple wanted to go. For better or for worse Apple doesn't need high end users in order to survive (Unlike Adobe, Avid, Autodesk, etc.,) so Apple isn't beholden to the needs of high end users. Adobe and Avid have retooled their software into modern, 64-bit code w/o throwing the baby out w/the bathwater because they can't afford to alienate their entire user base. Apple can afford to take more risks because if FCPX fails it probably won't even impact their stock price.


Lethal
Very true. And you either love the fact that Apple takes these risks or you hate it. I love it.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 04:44 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
It's like Fight Club but for geek editors.
Ha ha true
I try to defend it and at times its just futile with some users.
Ultimately the only people Im worried about dealing with this is my students.
Night courses are tough enough without having to field questions as to why the college doesnt use Avid/PPro.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
Very true. And you either love the fact that Apple takes these risks or you hate it. I love it.
Apple is that kind of company that you love to hate.
Then theirs Microsoft (do they even matter?)...
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 05:00 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Boisv View Post
Very true. And you either love the fact that Apple takes these risks or you hate it. I love it.
I love it... except when it torpedoes my ability to do my job. Then I just move on. If FCPX ever becomes useful for me I'll pick it up. If it doesn't it doesn't.

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Apple is that kind of company that you love to hate.
Then theirs Microsoft (do they even matter?)...
Over the past decade that I've been a Mac user, and a member of this forum, it's been very interesting to see how both the haters and the fanboys have changed. To be honest, if I was forced to be stuck in a room with one I'd rather be stuck w/the hater... the Apple-can-do-no-wrong fanboys drive me insane. I much prefer the old school fanboys.


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Old Apr 12, 2012, 05:10 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
I love it... except when it torpedoes my ability to do my job. Then I just move on. If FCPX ever becomes useful for me I'll pick it up. If it doesn't it doesn't.
Im just glad Ive had the pleasure of learning it. Fun learning new things

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Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
Over the past decade that I've been a Mac user, and a member of this forum, it's been very interesting to see how both the haters and the fanboys have changed. To be honest, if I was forced to be stuck in a room with one I'd rather be stuck w/the hater... the Apple-can-do-no-wrong fanboys drive me insane. I much prefer the old school fanboys.


Lethal
No not the good old IRC days :P Ive been thru a few wars. Mac vs Windows, Max vs Maya, HD-DVD vs BD.
I think I can go thru another one
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 08:40 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by LethalWolfe View Post
Over the past decade that I've been a Mac user, and a member of this forum, it's been very interesting to see how both the haters and the fanboys have changed. To be honest, if I was forced to be stuck in a room with one I'd rather be stuck w/the hater... the Apple-can-do-no-wrong fanboys drive me insane. I much prefer the old school fanboys.


Lethal
Amen brother. I especially hate the voting system MacRumors implemented, it only creates more passive-aggressive behavior. People get too heated up over silly things and get personal behind screen names and anonymity. Doesn't speak well of us as humans.
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Old Apr 12, 2012, 09:37 PM   #124
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Im just glad Ive had the pleasure of learning it. Fun learning new things
I agree that learning is fun. And thanks to Apple I've been motivated to relearn Avid, check out DaVinci...


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Old Apr 15, 2012, 02:24 PM   #125
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The true "pro" is defined by his abilities... not the tools he uses!
I wish everyone understood this principal.

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Originally Posted by mBox View Post
No not the good old IRC days :P Ive been thru a few wars. Mac vs Windows, Max vs Maya, HD-DVD vs BD.
I think I can go thru another one
Don't forget Canon vs Nikon!
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