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Old Apr 15, 2012, 08:32 PM   #1
stylinexpat
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Democracy and Democratic protests in Israel's eyes

Interesting how protestors are being sent away. Imagine this happening in New York or Washington where Israeli Jewish protestors are placed on planes and sent back to Israel or where ever they came from had they come to the US to either protest or Demonstrate for a certain cause.


http://news.yahoo.com/israel-nabs-fl...161232869.html

This is seen as bad









This of course is seen as good and ok..






The Syrians won't allow it and neither will we but we are Democratic lol..



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Old Apr 15, 2012, 08:48 PM   #2
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"we must protect Israel, the only democratic nation in the middle east"- every USA politician.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:36 AM   #3
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It seems a pity that country like Isreal – which was founded to protect a vulnerable people – has resorted to legal, economic and military oppression of another vulnerable people just to appease its own religious zealots*. I despair at the state of the world.

*[braces for inevitable digs about the US]
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:38 AM   #4
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"We're democratic because we are"

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Old Apr 16, 2012, 10:30 AM   #5
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Anyone see how this soldier struck this demonstrator?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17726614



http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&v=FLsA6OyJV_A
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:10 AM   #6
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Anyone see how this soldier struck this demonstrator?
Those shirts are getting perilously close to brown.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 11:22 AM   #7
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I'm not sure what the point is. Are people upset that protestors were denied entry into Israel? I'm fairly certain a visitor Visa can be revoked if you lied to obtain it, or indicate your desire to break the law of the country you are visiting. Not to mention, by denying foreign protestors, Israel prevents a potential international controversy.

As for the pros and cons of supporting Israel, I'm all for ending our support. The only precondition I see that would keep that from happening almost immediately would be the "palestinians" need to negotiate for their own country and demonstrate an ability to live peacefully as a neighbor to Israel.

(edit) I almost forgot. All the other countries in the region need to recognize Israel. Peace treaties would be nice, but that's just being picky.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 12:27 PM   #8
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I'm not sure what the point is. Are people upset that protestors were denied entry into Israel? I'm fairly certain a visitor Visa can be revoked if you lied to obtain it, or indicate your desire to break the law of the country you are visiting. Not to mention, by denying foreign protestors, Israel prevents a potential international controversy.

As for the pros and cons of supporting Israel, I'm all for ending our support. The only precondition I see that would keep that from happening almost immediately would be the "palestinians" need to negotiate for their own country and demonstrate an ability to live peacefully as a neighbor to Israel.

(edit) I almost forgot. All the other countries in the region need to recognize Israel. Peace treaties would be nice, but that's just being picky.
Doesn't Israel make anyone wanting to get to Palestine have to land at Israel's Airport
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 01:43 PM   #9
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Doesn't Israel make anyone wanting to get to Palestine have to land at Israel's Airport
Get to where? There is no place on any map I've ever seen called "Palestine." There would have been roughly 50 years ago had they agreed to it, but they didn't. There might have been in the years since had they agreed to it. They didn't. The restrictions exist as a security measure. If you, or they, or anyone else wants those types of restrictions to end, all you have to do is get along. As an outsider, I just do not understand why two people who live in close proximity can't at least try to get along.

(edit) Yes, I am aware that one side wants things that it won't get.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 02:51 PM   #10
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Get to where? There is no place on any map I've ever seen called "Palestine." There would have been roughly 50 years ago had they agreed to it, but they didn't. There might have been in the years since had they agreed to it. They didn't. The restrictions exist as a security measure. If you, or they, or anyone else wants those types of restrictions to end, all you have to do is get along. As an outsider, I just do not understand why two people who live in close proximity can't at least try to get along.

(edit) Yes, I am aware that one side wants things that it won't get.
There is little chance of getting along when there are groups within that feel it is their religious duty to destroy the other... and since there is no questioning the laws of god there is little room for accommodating others.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 04:17 PM   #11
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A bad move on Israel's part. It would have been better to admit the protesters as long as they did not violate any laws--and then expel them later if they did.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 04:30 PM   #12
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There is little chance of getting along when there are groups within that feel it is their religious duty to destroy the other... and since there is no questioning the laws of god there is little room for accommodating others.
The video in your link is blocked in the UK so I cant see the point, but if you honestly believe a majority of Muslims (or Palestinians specifically) believe its a duty to destroy Israel, then you're beyond help, or worth reasoning with.

EDIT: misunderstanding
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 04:46 PM   #13
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The video in your link is blocked in the UK so I cant see the point, but if you honestly believe a majority of Muslims (or Palestinians specifically) believe its a duty to destroy Israel, then you're beyond help, or worth reasoning with.
Maybe you did not read my post very carefully. Paraphrasing what I said: "Groups within want to destroy each other" does not suggest an accusation of the entirety of the population.

The linked video is hosted by YouTube and is a clip from "Root Of All Evil" where Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim in Isreal.

As far as your personal attack, it isn't necessary and I hope simply a misunderstanding.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:11 PM   #14
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Those shirts are getting perilously close to brown.
Wow, you're old. Of course, the original brownshirts maxim fits the new breed as well: "All opposition must be stamped into the ground."
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:32 PM   #15
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As far as your personal attack, it isn't necessary and I hope simply a misunderstanding.
Fazzy's leanings are well documented.

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Wow, you're old. Of course, the original brownshirts maxim fits the new breed as well: "All opposition must be stamped into the ground."
Yes, born just after the war started, so I cannot be blamed.

The concept of a common "perceived" enemy has been used time and again over the centuries.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 05:54 PM   #16
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Israel does have a right to exist and defend themselves.


But damnit, they're being such *******s about it.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 06:12 PM   #17
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Israel does have a right to exist and defend themselves.

But damnit, they're being such *******s about it.
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do."

I don't condone rifle-butting someone just because he/she is voicing their opinion. If these people were allowed to leave the airport, then they should at least have the courtesy of non-violent treatment.
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:39 PM   #18
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Does Israel have a constitutionally protected right of assembly/protest?
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 08:59 PM   #19
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Does Israel have a constitutionally protected right of assembly/protest?
For Israeli Jews?
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Old Apr 16, 2012, 09:20 PM   #20
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For Israeli Jews?
For whatever
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 12:15 AM   #21
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For whatever
Depends on whom you ask. If you ask either one of these guys they will tell you no

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Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:20 AM   #22
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In my life time I have watched as Israel becomes more isolated.

Actions like this don't help.
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:21 AM   #23
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Maybe you did not read my post very carefully. Paraphrasing what I said: "Groups within want to destroy each other" does not suggest an accusation of the entirety of the population.

The linked video is hosted by YouTube and is a clip from "Root Of All Evil" where Richard Dawkins interviews a Muslim in Isreal.

As far as your personal attack, it isn't necessary and I hope simply a misunderstanding.
You're right, it was a misunderstanding. Sorry if I appeared harsh, I misread what you were saying. I couldn't see the video because its been blocked in the UK, which lead me to believe that was what you were saying.

Sorry
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Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:29 AM   #24
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When I was growing up I remember there was a lot of respect for the plucky oppressed Israeli's. (I was 7 when they fought the Yom Kippur war etc). I even had a model Airfix Mirage in amongst my Spitfires etc! My father - who wasn't exactly a liberal used to hold them in a very high regard.

A few years ago we watching the TV together and something came up about them - his one comment was unrepeatable about what they were doing and he changed the channel. I was really surprised.

After the way they've behaved in the past twenty years - I know no-one who respects them anymore. Their reactions are depressingly predictable. (Which is a tragedy for both them and the whole Middle East.)

I do not understand the hold Israel seems to manage over US politics. It just defies all logic.

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Old Apr 17, 2012, 07:53 AM   #25
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I do not understand the hold Israel seems to manage over US politics. It just defies all logic.
The U.S. needs them to keep the region in-check.

Additionally, it would be political suicide at home to even censure them.

And even if they do, it is prearranged, including the resulting indignation from Israel.

Chess.
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