Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:33 AM   #1
phas3
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
A discussion about god...

So me and my girlfriend just had a heated discussion about god. Not religion but God/Jesus because she says she's a christian but doesn't really believe in religion but does believe in god.

I was raised a Catholic and as I grew older I started to stem away from that way of thinking and exercised the ideas of science but still believe in a higher power such as god.

See my way of thinking she says that I'm contradicting myself and that if I am a true believe of God that I would not be exercising the ideas of science. I'm either in or I'm out.

I find that I'm not playing both fields but I keep an open mind to the other possibilities out there, its not that one day I'm a believer in god and the next I'm all about science. I called her on her biased towards god and she claims she's not biased blah blah blah.

The argument which just started out calm and was just a discussion turned into a heated debate/argument. At which point she claimed that she didn't even care about what everyone else thinks unless they are all about God.

After that, I told her the discussion was over and what the heck was she doing arguing for.

The point of this thread is to see if it is possible to believe in god and at the same time be open minded to the other possibilities that isn't god.

I want to hear from others who strongly believe in god, and those that don't. I want to see if her rationality is right or wrong.
phas3 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:40 AM   #2
Huntn
macrumors 603
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tallest Tree in The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
The point of this thread is to see if it is possible to believe in god and at the same time be open minded to the other possibilities that isn't god.
It's sounds to me like your girlfriend has made her mind up and does not want anyone to confuse her with alternate possibilities.

God and science are not exclusive from each other. Both could exist hand in hand. The problem is the Bible and people reading the Bible as the 100% truth, when in actuality it's a bunch of old stories handed down through millennium with no more weight than any other fairy tale.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:43 AM   #3
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Just explain to her that science is man's way to explore how god does some of the things it does.
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:48 AM   #4
phas3
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
It's sounds to me like your girlfriend has made her mind up and does not want anyone to confuse her with alternate possibilities.

God and science are not exclusive from each other. Both could exist hand in hand. The problem is the Bible and people reading the Bible as the 100% truth, when in actuality it's a bunch of old stories handed down through millennium with no more weight than any other fairy tale.
this also came up, I like to play the devils advocate. I told her everything that everyone believes about GOD/Jesus comes from a book, a book created by man.

And she tells me to go on the internet and look up some of the evidence that they have found about the existence of god. And to quote "artifacts and scrolls" SCROLLS THAT WERE CREATED BY MAN! COME ON!
phas3 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:48 AM   #5
MonkeySee....
macrumors 68040
 
MonkeySee....'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
So you say you use scientific reasoning but also think their is some hairy bearded chap in the sky?

I'm with you other half*. Sorry.

*contradicting yourself
__________________
If you’re busy making everything, how can you perfect anything? - Apple

Always keep the rhythm in your feet and a little party in your shoulders. - Phil Dunphy
MonkeySee.... is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:53 AM   #6
phas3
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
So you say you use scientific reasoning but also think their is some hairy bearded chap in the sky?

I'm with you other half. Sorry.
not exactly, I do believe that there is a God, but I keep an open mind to other possibilities.

I believe that there is only soo much science can do until it is up to God. Her argument is that if I do believe in god, then I can't keep an open mind to other possibilities.
phas3 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 09:58 AM   #7
MonkeySee....
macrumors 68040
 
MonkeySee....'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
not exactly, I do believe that there is a God, but I keep an open mind to other possibilities.

I believe that there is only soo much science can do until it is up to God. Her argument is that if I do believe in god, then I can't keep an open mind to other possibilities.
Sorry you lost me.

If you're open to other possibilities then you must be doubting your belief in God, no? That won't get you into "heaven" you know.

You'll end up rotting on earth with the rest of us Atheists.
__________________
If you’re busy making everything, how can you perfect anything? - Apple

Always keep the rhythm in your feet and a little party in your shoulders. - Phil Dunphy
MonkeySee.... is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:08 AM   #8
phas3
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
Sorry you lost me.

If you're open to other possibilities then you must be doubting your belief in God, no? That won't get you into "heaven" you know.

You'll end up rotting on earth with the rest of us Atheists.
okay I think I see the lost in translation lol, I'm open to other possibilities but it doesn't mean that I follow them....does that make sense?

If something happens and its unexplainable, my first thought is God. My first thought is not "this unexplainable event can be explained by science". Yeah maybe it can be, but my first thought is God.
phas3 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:11 AM   #9
niuniu
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A man of the people. The right sort of people.
Two people arguing about something neither are able to prove.

Always fruitful.
niuniu is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:13 AM   #10
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
I want to hear from others who strongly believe in god, and those that don't. I want to see if her rationality is right or wrong.
Buddhists believe (and experience) "formless fields of benefaction".

We just don't call it "God" ... make it human ... etc.
citizenzen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:19 AM   #11
ericrwalker
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albany, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
not exactly, I do believe that there is a God, but I keep an open mind to other possibilities.

I believe that there is only soo much science can do until it is up to God. Her argument is that if I do believe in god, then I can't keep an open mind to other possibilities.
I am with you on this. I am open to the possibility that there is a greater being that created everything. Maybe one God, maybe many, or maybe it's all just science. That's why I fall into the agnostic category.

I always keep the possibility that the people in bible stories as they were either high, schizophrenic, or suffering from heat exhaustion. There is also the possibility that immaculate conception story was the cover to a cheating spouse story.
ericrwalker is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:20 AM   #12
MonkeySee....
macrumors 68040
 
MonkeySee....'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
okay I think I see the lost in translation lol, I'm open to other possibilities but it doesn't mean that I follow them....does that make sense?

If something happens and its unexplainable, my first thought is God. My first thought is not "this unexplainable event can be explained by science". Yeah maybe it can be, but my first thought is God.
ahhh I gotcha. Well in hindsight, you'll never win an argument with a women so you may as well give up now
__________________
If you’re busy making everything, how can you perfect anything? - Apple

Always keep the rhythm in your feet and a little party in your shoulders. - Phil Dunphy
MonkeySee.... is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:27 AM   #13
phas3
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
ahhh I gotcha. Well in hindsight, you'll never win an argument with a women so you may as well give up now
that I know is TRUE and its FACT, god proven and science proven lol. Hence her last sentence "I don't care about what you or anyone else thinks anyway"
phas3 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:37 AM   #14
AP_piano295
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
okay I think I see the lost in translation lol, I'm open to other possibilities but it doesn't mean that I follow them....does that make sense?

If something happens and its unexplainable, my first thought is God. My first thought is not "this unexplainable event can be explained by science". Yeah maybe it can be, but my first thought is God.
So you're saying a part of your mind is open to reasoned thought and study.

While the other part of your mind assumes that Zeus is the cause of all lighting?

You're just arguing a "god of the gaps" perspective while your girlfriend wants to explain everything with "god" regardless if those gaps have already been filled or not.
__________________
Smile
AP_piano295 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:43 AM   #15
Tomorrow
macrumors 603
 
Tomorrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Always a day away
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
God and science are not exclusive from each other. Both could exist hand in hand.
This.

</thread>
__________________
I would scream just to be heard, as if yelling at the stars - I was bleeding just to feel.
You would never say a word, kept me reaching in the dark - always something to conceal.
Tomorrow is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:02 AM   #16
AP_piano295
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
God and science are not exclusive from each other.
Yes they are: science is the study of the physical world based on empirical data.

God and other such concepts are not based in the natural world hence the term "supernatural". The supernatural is separate from scientific study and exploration.
__________________
Smile
AP_piano295 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:07 AM   #17
Macaddicttt
macrumors 6502a
 
Macaddicttt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
Yes they are: science is the study of the physical world based on empirical data.

God and other such concepts are not based in the natural world hence the term "supernatural". The supernatural is separate from scientific study and exploration.
It depends on how you mean the word "exclusive."

Yes, they are exclusive in that they do not concern themselves with each other, so it is possible to hold both in your mind.

No, they are not exclusive in that if you subscribe to one, you cannot subscribe to the other; it is in fact possible to hold both in your mind without contradiction.
__________________
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
Check out my band: The Band Geek Mafia
Macaddicttt is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:13 AM   #18
AP_piano295
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macaddicttt View Post
It depends on how you mean the word "exclusive."

Yes, they are exclusive in that they do not concern themselves with each other, so it is possible to hold both in your mind.

No, they are not exclusive in that if you subscribe to one, you cannot subscribe to the other; it is in fact possible to hold both in your mind without contradiction.
It is possible though not advisable, leaving a "space" in your mind for god as an explanation for anything in the physical world is poor scientific practice.

Facts should be used to build theories.

Theories should not be built in the absence of facts. It seems unfortunately inevitable that thiests use their beliefs to influence the physical "real" world where their beliefs have no place.
__________________
Smile
AP_piano295 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:16 AM   #19
Mousse
macrumors 65816
 
Mousse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The Mended Drum, Ankh-Morpork
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
Sorry you lost me.

If you're open to other possibilities then you must be doubting your belief in God, no? That won't get you into "heaven" you know.
Oh...eh? I think I got the gist of what the OP is talking about. Think of what Science has explained to us about existence and everything as a tiny bubble. Everything in that bubble, he says, "Science can explain this." Everything outside the bubble, he attributes to God.

As time goes on and our science discovers more about everything around us, the bubble expands. What was once the purview of God is now within mortal reach. For him, and for me as well, there will always be things that cannot be explained by any science we know of. Ergo, Science and God can easily co-exist in our line of thinking.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
__________________
D'oh! (_8(|)
Mousse is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:18 AM   #20
0dev
macrumors 68040
 
0dev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 127.0.0.1
When it comes to matters of religion, I have two words: Russell's Teapot.

If someone wants to claim there's some sort of all-powerful god up there, the burden of proof lies on that person to prove it, not on me to disprove it. Since, in the case of Christianity (and in fact most religions) the only "proof" is a 2,000 year old story book, they might as well claim Harry Potter is real.

I will happily become religious the day there is actual solid scientific evidence for a god. I base my beliefs on what can be proven at the current time.
__________________
"What kind of arrogant ass would quote themselves in their signature?" -0dev
0dev is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:18 AM   #21
AP_piano295
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mousse View Post
Oh...eh? I think I got the gist of what the OP is talking about. Think of what Science has explained to us about existence and everything as a tiny bubble. Everything in that bubble, he says, "Science can explain this." Everything outside the bubble, he attributes to God.

As time goes on and our science discovers more about everything around us, the bubble expands. What was once the purview of God is now within mortal reach. For him, and for me as well, there will always be things that cannot be explained by any science we know of. Ergo, Science and God can easily co-exist in our line of thinking.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
In other words god of the gaps.

I don't know so I'll make something up until I do know. And because we can never know everything there will always be places where my fantasy can exist.
__________________
Smile
AP_piano295 is offline   -1 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:30 AM   #22
Huntn
macrumors 603
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tallest Tree in The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
So you say you use scientific reasoning but also think their is some hairy bearded chap in the sky?

I'm with you other half*. Sorry.

*contradicting yourself
No he's not. He is staying open minded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phas3 View Post
this also came up, I like to play the devils advocate. I told her everything that everyone believes about GOD/Jesus comes from a book, a book created by man.

And she tells me to go on the internet and look up some of the evidence that they have found about the existence of god. And to quote "artifacts and scrolls" SCROLLS THAT WERE CREATED BY MAN! COME ON!
When it comes to God there is NO evidence, which leaves only faith. Does that mean faith could not possibly lead you in the right direction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
Sorry you lost me.

If you're open to other possibilities then you must be doubting your belief in God, no? That won't get you into "heaven" you know.

You'll end up rotting on earth with the rest of us Atheists.
If there was a supreme being just how petty do you think it would be?
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:47 AM   #23
Zombie Acorn
macrumors 65816
 
Zombie Acorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
A few thousand years ago you would be arguing about Zues and Hera Of course if a lightning storm started you could just say "look you angered the gods". Auto win.
__________________
--2.6 C2Q 4gb DDR3 GTX 260-Win 7--
--2.0 CE Macbook Alum-Leopard--
Zombie Acorn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:54 AM   #24
Macaddicttt
macrumors 6502a
 
Macaddicttt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by AP_piano295 View Post
It is possible though not advisable, leaving a "space" in your mind for god as an explanation for anything in the physical world is poor scientific practice.

Facts should be used to build theories.

Theories should not be built in the absence of facts. It seems unfortunately inevitable that thiests use their beliefs to influence the physical "real" world where their beliefs have no place.
No, you seem to misunderstand religion. It's purview is not the empirical unknown, but rather the non-empirical. Science cannot empirically figure out, for example, the meaning of life, as science describes the how, not the why. Science cannot answer what is "good" or "bad," merely what is.

Religion should concern itself only with the questions that science cannot answer, that is, the questions that science has no ability to answer, not the questions that science currently can't answer, but might in the future.
__________________
"All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost."
Check out my band: The Band Geek Mafia
Macaddicttt is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 11:54 AM   #25
Huntn
macrumors 603
 
Huntn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Tallest Tree in The Misty Mountains
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
A few thousand years ago you would be arguing about Zues and Hera Of course if a lightning storm started you could just say "look you angered the gods". Auto win.
I've been arguing for neither, just exploration.
__________________
The modern business ethos: "I'm worth it, you're not, and I'm a glutton!"
MBP, 2.2 GHz intel i7, Radeon HD 6750M, Bootcamp: W7.
PC: i5 4670k, 8GB RAM, Asus GTX670 (2GB VRAM), W7.
Huntn is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:51 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC