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Old Apr 18, 2012, 03:49 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
There is no difference between the author aborting a life and having a toddler and killing it. Both the fetus and the toddler are living things.
The pork chop I just ate started out as a living thing too.

Unlike the pig which was a conscious animal, a foetus will only develop the brain functions to allow consciousness in the 24th to 28th week. I feel sadder for the pig than an aborted foetus.

Unless you eat rocks, chrono, you're killing living things for your own sustenance every day of your life.

Your argument is ludicrous.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 03:49 PM   #27
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Apologies for not agreeing that discarding a human life is an effective means of birth control.
What is life to you is not life for some. For me it's a potential life, tragic when it is wanted and lost, but not tragic when it is not wanted and removed.

If you insist on preserving all of these human lives, why are you not concerned about how they will be raised or the quality of that life that they will have?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 03:53 PM   #28
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The pork chop I just ate started out as a living thing too.

Unlike the pig which was a conscious animal, a foetus will only develop the brain functions to allow consciousness in the 24th to 28th week. I feel sadder for the pig than an aborted foetus.

Unless you eat rocks, chrono, you're killing living things for your own sustenance every day of your life.

Your argument is ludicrous.
Your analogy is ludicrous. Although I love animals, most people, including myself put people first.

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What is life to you is not life for some. For me it's a potential life, tragic when it is wanted and lost, but not tragic when it is not wanted and removed.

If you insist on preserving all of these human lives, why are you not concerned about how they will be raised or the quality of that life that they will have?
Of course I hope they have good homes. The woman in the article had 4 kids already, its a safe bet to say her fifth wouldn't have been a huge extra burden.

She did it for convenience and thats just wrong.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:01 PM   #29
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Your analogy is ludicrous. Although I love animals, most people, including myself put people first.
Really? What about the mother?

The foetus is not a viable or a conscious 'person' at the stage at which abortion normally occurs.

If you're so concerned about a collection of non-sentinet cells that may end up being a person, I hope you never watch porn...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:32 PM   #30
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Maybe the men want to keep their child instead of killing him/her. The father and the child never get a say in the choice of saving or taking an innocent child's life.
You must be joking. Men not even the father are lining up to stop a woman from aborting.

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EDIT: No further comment. I am not getting sucked into another abortion thread.
You suck at not getting sucked-in, after the fact.

Fail.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:35 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
Your analogy is ludicrous. Although I love animals, most people, including myself put people first.



Of course I hope they have good homes. The woman in the article had 4 kids already, its a safe bet to say her fifth wouldn't have been a huge extra burden.

She did it for convenience and thats just wrong.
How do you know it's a "safe bet". How many kids do you have?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:40 PM   #32
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We have been conscientiously using contraception and it’s failed us this time.
Which means she decided to use abortion as the ultimate form of post-conceptual "contraception" - or is it only me?
I've recently stumbled upon an argument that seems quite valid for me: "if a single cell was found on a distant planet, we'd call it the discovery of extraterrestrial life. How about a single cell minutes after the fusion of gametes? Is it not 'life'?"
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:42 PM   #33
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I have to wonder why this woman in the article did not have her tubes tied or her husband didn't get snipped. They clearly didn't want anymore kids, why not??? I know most people think abortion is not killing a child but its certainly a much bigger deal then those two options, right?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:45 PM   #34
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Which means she decided to use abortion as the ultimate form of post-conceptual "contraception" - or is it only me?
I've recently stumbled upon an argument that seems quite valid for me: "if a single cell was found on a distant planet, we'd call it the discovery of extraterrestrial life. How about a single cell minutes after the fusion of gametes? Is it not 'life'?"
Does that same logic extend to sperm cells? They are functionally "alive"...
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:47 PM   #35
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Although I love animals, most people, including myself put people first.
Because it's convenient to do so, right?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:49 PM   #36
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Which means she decided to use abortion as the ultimate form of post-conceptual "contraception" - or is it only me?
I've recently stumbled upon an argument that seems quite valid for me: "if a single cell was found on a distant planet, we'd call it the discovery of extraterrestrial life. How about a single cell minutes after the fusion of gametes? Is it not 'life'?"
That most telling part of your statement is that you say the argument is quite valid for you. I certainly wouldn't classify a single cell as evidence of ET life.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:51 PM   #37
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I have to wonder why this woman in the article did not have her tubes tied or her husband didn't get snipped. They clearly didn't want anymore kids, why not??? I know most people think abortion is not killing a child but its certainly a much bigger deal then those two options, right?
This was 34 years ago, and they were using other birth control methods.

They failed.

What was your point again, or are you saying that everyone that no longer wants kids should have either a tubal ligation or a vasectomy.

Or even both, depending on the type of marriage.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:52 PM   #38
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That most telling part of your statement is that you say the argument is quite valid for you. I certainly wouldn't classify a single cell as evidence of ET life.
But Moyank, It might become a upstanding, contributing member of its society one day..
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:55 PM   #39
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But Moyank, It might become a upstanding, contributing member of its society one day..
Yeah, might even be another Jesus.

Where would we be today if Mary aborted her "platonic" baby?

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Old Apr 18, 2012, 04:57 PM   #40
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Which means she decided to use abortion as the ultimate form of post-conceptual "contraception" - or is it only me?
I've recently stumbled upon an argument that seems quite valid for me: "if a single cell was found on a distant planet, we'd call it the discovery of extraterrestrial life. How about a single cell minutes after the fusion of gametes? Is it not 'life'?"
Well, if we discovered a single cell, we'd probably define it as a sign of the presence and possibility of life.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:07 PM   #41
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I'm well aware that the original article states that, but its funny how she never mentions what exactly it is and never specifically says if in this case she used it, she just mentioned using it.

Was it a condom? Birth control pills? The "pull out" method? We'll never know.
It is safe to assume the method was either condom or birth control pills.

The "pull out" method is not consider a form of birth control.

You know you are just making your entire agument even weaker with posting a 100% BS thing like that.

It is funny that you try to justify your entire response with something as stupid as calling pull out a birth control method. When people say birth control they are referring to a method is that is going to fall in the 98%+ every time category of successful
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:10 PM   #42
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This was 34 years ago, and they were using other birth control methods.

They failed.

What was your point again, or are you saying that everyone that no longer wants kids should have either a tubal ligation or a vasectomy.

Or even both, depending on the type of marriage.
Yes, 34 years ago. Different times, didn't think of that. Didn't really have a point, just curious if this was edited down from a longer story; something seemed off to me. I can see two crazy kids not being careful but two married people with a bunch of kids already. They know how things work, figured they wouldn't end up in a situation like this.

But if you're asking my opinion, uh, yup! If you are in a loving marriage and are done with kids, why wouldn't you either: 1. use birth control, 2. have a tubal ligation or a vasectomy. It doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't do one of these things.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:14 PM   #43
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Yes, 34 years ago. Different times, didn't think of that. Didn't really have a point, just curious if this was edited down from a longer story; something seemed off to me. I can see two crazy kids not being careful but two married people with a bunch of kids already. They know how things work, figured they wouldn't end up in a situation like this.

But if you're asking my opinion, uh, yup! If you are in a loving marriage and are done with kids, why wouldn't you either: 1. use birth control, 2. have a tubal ligation or a vasectomy. It doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't do one of these things.
Why are these procedures necessary? Just because they don't want anymore kids doesn't mean that they are willing to permanently give up their fertility.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:17 PM   #44
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Why are these procedures necessary? Just because they don't want anymore kids doesn't mean that they are willing to permanently give up their fertility.
Actually that's exactly what it means. If you don't want kids anymore, you want to give up your fertility. She was 38 when she had the abortion do you think this: "I have a family, a large family. I love my children with a passion, but I donít want any more. I know this with absolute certainty. Iíve got other things to do, and I donít have it in me to be a good enough mother to a fifth child. I delight in newborn babies with their delicate weightlessness, the curl of their small fingers around my thumb, but the best thing about them now is that they belong to other people. I donít want to bear them, feed them, bring them up, be responsible for them." was gonna change when she was 50?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:21 PM   #45
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Which means she decided to use abortion as the ultimate form of post-conceptual "contraception" - or is it only me?
I've recently stumbled upon an argument that seems quite valid for me: "if a single cell was found on a distant planet, we'd call it the discovery of extraterrestrial life. How about a single cell minutes after the fusion of gametes? Is it not 'life'?"
I would assume that you don't eat (anything not just meat considering that everything that humans eat is life).

I also assume you don't use antibiotics, chemicals with the specific purpose of killing millions and millions of living cells.

If we found a single cell of life on another planet that would indeed be an amazing incredible scientific discovery. It would not make that cell a human.

A fetus/zygote is a collection of human cells with human dna (you know like a mole) that doesn't make it a "person".
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:21 PM   #46
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Actually that's exactly what it means. If you don't want kids anymore, you want to give up your fertility. She was 38 when she had the abortion do you think this: "I have a family, a large family. I love my children with a passion, but I donít want any more. I know this with absolute certainty. Iíve got other things to do, and I donít have it in me to be a good enough mother to a fifth child. I delight in newborn babies with their delicate weightlessness, the curl of their small fingers around my thumb, but the best thing about them now is that they belong to other people. I donít want to bear them, feed them, bring them up, be responsible for them." was gonna change when she was 50?
I can't say that and neither can you. It's unfair to everyone involved to assume that you know what's best for them without knowing their complete story. She might want kids one day in the future - who knows?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:24 PM   #47
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I can't say that and neither can you. It's unfair to everyone involved to assume that you know what's best for them without knowing their complete story. She might want kids one day in the future - who knows?
Or perhaps her husband didn't want to get a vasectomy and she didn't wan't to get her tubes tied (a somewhat dangerous medical procedure).

You don't get to decide people's reproductive choices because you believe you know when a group of cells become humanity.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:27 PM   #48
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I can't say that and neither can you. It's unfair to everyone involved to assume that you know what's best for them without knowing their complete story. She might want kids one day in the future - who knows?
I don't think either of us posted anything that was assuming what's best for them. Just seemed odd to me.

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Or perhaps her husband didn't want to get a vasectomy and she didn't wan't to get her tubes tied (a somewhat dangerous medical procedure).

You don't get to decide people's reproductive choices because you believe you know when a group of cells become humanity.
Nobody was deciding anything for anybody; I was just curious. And if they didn't want to have a medical procedure, why didn't they use condoms or the pill. Doesn't it seem odd that two people who were done having children, didn't do something to make sure that they didn't get pregnant?
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:40 PM   #49
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Didn't really have a point, just curious if this was edited down from a longer story; something seemed off to me
For a start, you might have read whatever was offered.

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It doesn't make sense to me that you wouldn't do one of these things.
Read, and learn.

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I donít want this child.

So Iím on my way to Planned Parenthood to have a legal abortion. My husband drives me there ó this is a serious matter for both of us, but we absolutely agree itís my decision to make. We have been conscientiously using contraception and itís failed us this time.
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Old Apr 18, 2012, 05:43 PM   #50
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For a start, you might have read whatever was offered.



Read, and learn.
I obviously missed that part. Why didn't you point it out the first time I asked, you didn't need to write such a snippy post.
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