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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:13 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Better yet, just string them from the nearest tree, lol.

The problem here is people in positions of responsibility putting themselves in compromised situations, where they can be manipulated, besides projecting what they are doing in the area.
I don't think hanging is appropriate and hope your response I that regard was sarcastic. They do deserve to be publicly embarrassed and fired. Not that part one isn't already taken care of for them in this case thanks to the media.
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Old Apr 20, 2012, 11:57 PM   #27
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It wasn't illegal, so what are you planning on firing them for? There is an obvious security risk, but prostitution is legal there. Bad judgment? Yes. Something that should result in a termination of employment? Probably not. It would be better to reassign to a non-security position.

The legality of prostitution is moot, these people put not only their jobs at risk but the POTUS and the country as well. These were the agents that had intimate knowledge of the President's comings and goings and put themselves at risk of potentially releasing said information. One SS agent in the news said even the slightest detail is enough to cause harm to anyone involved. They should feel lucky if firing is the only thing to happen as the Justice dept is looking into charges against some of them.

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Ok, so what about the fiduciary duties that are violated on a daily basis by corporate CEOs, boards, and other executives?
That's up to the boards to do something. You can't honestly compare some random company and CEO to that of the SS over watching the POTUS.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:32 AM   #28
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:03 AM   #29
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Damn, why didn't they just kill her and pin it on a drug overdose or frame some Colombian guy?
This mind set, certainly shows that you did immigrate to the correct country.

While you do not take it seriously, your adoptive country certainly does.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/21/wo...s.html?_r=1&hp
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 10:15 AM   #30
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This mind set, certainly shows that you did immigrate to the correct country.
Calm down Bunnykins, he was been sarcastic to the MAX.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 01:28 PM   #31
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I don't think hanging is appropriate and hope your response I that regard was sarcastic. They do deserve to be publicly embarrassed and fired. Not that part one isn't already taken care of for them in this case thanks to the media.
Yes it was sarcastic. The "lol" on the end was a clue. I was taking your notion of "they should all be fired, no investigation, no questions, just fired" and running with it. Do you think your expressed standard is reasonable? If you want a viable organization or society, accusations like this must be investigated. Or are you going to figuratively hang people based on hearsay?
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 04:03 PM   #32
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Or are you going to figuratively hang people based on hearsay?
And if they drown, they were not a witch, or something like that??
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 04:46 PM   #33
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Calm down Bunnykins, he was been sarcastic to the MAX.
Indeed I was, I may be in the US now, but my sarcasm will never leave me.
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 05:03 PM   #34
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Indeed I was, I may be in the US now, but my sarcasm will never leave me.
It will serve you well, Grasshopper.

So, when are you scheduled to retire, and go back to Englandshire to enjoy your remaining years?

Assuming you don't get shot first!!
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 06:24 PM   #35
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And if they drown, they were not a witch, or something like that??
Here ya go. How to explain she weighed the same as a duck??
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Old Apr 21, 2012, 07:30 PM   #36
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Yes it was sarcastic. The "lol" on the end was a clue. I was taking your notion of "they should all be fired, no investigation, no questions, just fired" and running with it. Do you think your expressed standard is reasonable? If you want a viable organization or society, accusations like this must be investigated. Or are you going to figuratively hang people based on hearsay?
I don't think that this is the solution for any sort of offense but this is our nations secret service. If the people in these type of high profile jobs can't be asked to work at a higher level of professionalism them they don't deserve the job.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:27 AM   #37
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I don't think that this is the solution for any sort of offense but this is our nations secret service. If the people in these type of high profile jobs can't be asked to work at a higher level of professionalism them they don't deserve the job.
My intent is not to pick on you, but my point was and continues to be people have the right to a fair analysis of alleged wrong doing. This requires questions and an investigation, something that seems to come across (as you expressed it) as alien to your standards of justice.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:31 PM   #38
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It will serve you well, Grasshopper.

So, when are you scheduled to retire, and go back to Englandshire to enjoy your remaining years?

Assuming you don't get shot first!!
I'm 26, so retirement age? Won't that be a myth by the time it gets to me?!

Not sure when or whether we'll go to England, I do like the idea of moving up to Vermont at some point, but whenever we visit, our friends don't paint the employment situation there too favorably...
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:34 PM   #39
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My intent is not to pick on you, but my point was and continues to be people have the right to a fair analysis of alleged wrong doing. This requires questions and an investigation, something that seems to come across (as you expressed it) as alien to your standards of justice.
I don't disagree with you I the general sense of it but some positions require extenuating circumstances and no second chances. These men work in a critical role and the nature of their job is so public that they can't afford these lapses in judgment. What if the men protecting the president has messed up in a similar way, had their guard down and he was injured or worse. These men can't afford screw ups and hence don't deserve them.

I know it sounds like a double standard and it really is but like I said. Some people have to held to higher standards.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:48 PM   #40
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I'm 26, so retirement age? Won't that be a myth by the time it gets to me?!

Not sure when or whether we'll go to England, I do like the idea of moving up to Vermont at some point, but whenever we visit, our friends don't paint the employment situation there too favorably...
I don't know your skill set, but you could come up here now, and avoid the last-minute rush to get the Hell out.

We sorely need more Brit ex-pats.

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Old Apr 22, 2012, 06:38 PM   #41
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I don't disagree with you I the general sense of it but some positions require extenuating circumstances and no second chances. These men work in a critical role and the nature of their job is so public that they can't afford these lapses in judgment. What if the men protecting the president has messed up in a similar way, had their guard down and he was injured or worse. These men can't afford screw ups and hence don't deserve them.

I know it sounds like a double standard and it really is but like I said. Some people have to held to higher standards.
We are starting to get circular here. You said, "no questions, no investigation, just fire them". That is not how human beings should deal with each other. In a case especially like this, an investigation with questions must be conducted, to substantiate the claim, to hand out just punishment, to educate the organization, and to give a clue how to prevent it in the future.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 08:51 PM   #42
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Yeah, I know. I also have friends who work with them in a related field, and they are allowed free time. If in that free time they go out to the bars, meet a girl, have some fun, and in no way compromise their job, why are people seeking their termination?

(hint - politics?)
How is it politics, the SS doesn't take sides, their job is to protect the POTUS no matter what their personal beliefs are. They take an oath to protect. They are on call 24/7 so they really don't have down time. And they were not in Colombia to be on vacation.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 09:16 PM   #43
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We are starting to get circular here. You said, "no questions, no investigation, just fire them". That is not how human beings should deal with each other. In a case especially like this, an investigation with questions must be conducted, to substantiate the claim, to hand out just punishment, to educate the organization, and to give a clue how to prevent it in the future.
You're right. We are kind of going in circles here. I'd agree that in about 99.9% of cases an investigation and all that is more than necessary. However in this case, these men are literally in charge of security of the president. If the president were killed as a result of their actions there would be no question that they be fired immediately. I realize the president is less powerful as an individual but what he represents the country and more importantly to the outside world is critical to the security of our national security. If other countries that the USA is not favorable with see that the people protecting the president can be lured away by sex it could have disastrous results and open up a scary can of worms. These individuals can not be allows lapses in judgement because their lapse could result in the terrible things happening.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:36 AM   #44
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How is it politics, the SS doesn't take sides, their job is to protect the POTUS no matter what their personal beliefs are. They take an oath to protect. They are on call 24/7 so they really don't have down time. And they were not in Colombia to be on vacation.
If it were about protection, the investigation would be confidential and would be held behind closed doors or by the SS or Treasury. If it were about politics, the politicians would get involved, they would hold hearings, they would try to pin the problems on the sitting president, and they would try to widen the investigation.
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Republican strategist Matthew Dowd lashed out Sunday morning on ABC at those who criticized President Barack Obama for the Secret Service prostitution scandal, especially former Alaska governor Sarah Palin.

In his usual participation on This Week‘s roundtable, Dowd was tired of some blaming Obama for the ongoing scandal.

“The hair trigger reaction all of sudden to any scandal, any hint of anything, all of a sudden Sarah Palin blames it on Barack Obama, he’s not a competent leader, I just think is totally ridiculous,” he said. “The idea that some lower level Secret Service guys perform very badly, and did something very bad, doesn’t really say anything to me about the president. You can blame the president for a lot of things, I think that you can’t blame him for.” Raw Story

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WASHINGTON -- Congressional committees are widening their investigations into an alleged U.S. Secret Service scandal involving prostitutes in Colombia ahead of a recent trip there by President Barack Obama.

The Senate Homeland Security Committee wants to determine whether what transpired "was an exception" or "a pattern of misconduct that has gone on elsewhere by Secret Service agents," said committee Chairman Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn.

Lieberman, in an appearance on "Fox News Sunday," said his panel was embarking on "a broader investigation" and would send the Secret Service detailed questions about the conduct of agents not only "on assignment, but off duty." Huffpo
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:41 AM   #45
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Still have to investigate and ask questions.

Edit: To clarify this was in response to reply #43.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 09:56 AM   #46
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Still have to investigate and ask questions.
Yes, you do, in the context of a private dismissal hearing between the SS and the individual agents. There should also be an internal investigation performed by the SS, OIG or AG, but those wouldn't be held in open congressional hearings because they deal with the security of the President. The SS (heck, every agency of the government) treats that as inviolate. Period.

Congress has the capacity to hold behind closed door meetings about sensitive material, but in cases where there may be a political side, they won't. In my opinion, both sides are playing this. It's a scandal that the left needs to show it is handling properly, and the right can't help but snicker everytime they see a headline that has Obama and prostitute in the same story. Like it or not, that's politics.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 02:40 PM   #47
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Hello....blackmail? Loss of focus on what your job is? It's a distraction and security risk that is not needed. They are there to protect the President. Not get laid on taxpayer's dime.
Gotta agree on this one.

That said, you know that the GOP is going to seize on this as a re-election issue. As if nothing like this could possibly have happened under a Republican president.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 04:17 PM   #48
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If it were about protection, the investigation would be confidential and would be held behind closed doors or by the SS or Treasury. If it were about politics, the politicians would get involved, they would hold hearings, they would try to pin the problems on the sitting president, and they would try to widen the investigation.
Didn't the AP first report this story? So should they be censored because it deals with national security?
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 04:43 PM   #49
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If it were about protection, the investigation would be confidential and would be held behind closed doors or by the SS or Treasury. If it were about politics, the politicians would get involved, they would hold hearings, they would try to pin the problems on the sitting president, and they would try to widen the investigation.


That's what happens when the media gets a hold of it, you can't have something like this being hidden. There is a level of accountability that is expected, specially when it involves the SS. Examples need to be made and publicly so that the next time someone in these positions get a similar idea, they'll think twice about it. It seems you have a hard time excepting how the system works.
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Old Apr 23, 2012, 05:19 PM   #50
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That's what happens when the media gets a hold of it, you can't have something like this being hidden. There is a level of accountability that is expected, specially when it involves the SS. Examples need to be made and publicly so that the next time someone in these positions get a similar idea, they'll think twice about it. It seems you have a hard time excepting how the system works.
Oh, but I do get it, and I agree with what you just said. Where we differ is that what you said is a function of politics, not procedure or security.
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