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Old Apr 24, 2012, 07:03 PM   #26
LethalWolfe
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Now I'm not necessarily against the government funding universities (in the context of this argument), but paying universities based on how well they perform in some criteria to me is just asking for trouble. It just compounds as some universities gain more and more money, and the others have no hope of catching up.
Or you end up like the problem many k-12 schools have in the US in that you don't educate students anymore, you just prep them for the standardized exams that determine the schools' funding. It's one of those things that sounds good in theory but goes awfully wrong in practice.


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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:23 PM   #27
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Or you end up like the problem many k-12 schools have in the US in that you don't educate students anymore, you just prep them for the standardized exams that determine the schools' funding. It's one of those things that sounds good in theory but goes awfully wrong in practice.


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Get rid of the exams and we've solved that problem
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:31 PM   #28
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The University of Notre Dame seems to do quite well, and without sacrificing scholastic integrity.

You do not get the grades you don't play, no matter how talented you may be.
But if you're an idiot with a DUI and multiple alcohol/behavior issues, it's all good if you're a pro-quality WR at ND, cough cough.

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And...not to brag...but here is a link to the recent success of my alma mater http://espn.go.com/blog/notre-dame-f...raduation-rate
In all honesty, ND is probably one of a handful (a true handful, as in 5) BCS programs that actually produces true student-athletes and gives a dang about academics. Another one is Stanford, minus the arrogance, so they're my favorite. Books and BCS bowls? Can't beat that combo.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:32 PM   #29
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Only problem with that, is that you will probably end up with the same scenario we have with public schools. Some REALLY ****** poor schools who don't get government funding because they're bad and can't attract students because they're already bad, and then the good schools just getting all the money already.

It's a catch 22.

Now I'm not necessarily against the government funding universities (in the context of this argument), but paying universities based on how well they perform in some criteria to me is just asking for trouble. It just compounds as some universities gain more and more money, and the others have no hope of catching up.
Well New Zealand doesn't have a lot of Universities so that doesn't become a problem. At least every University is the best at something in New Zealand. New Zealand has fully funded Universities since most of them were established. Hell when my Dad went to University it was "free"! I pay about $900 per paper.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:42 PM   #30
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Well New Zealand doesn't have a lot of Universities so that doesn't become a problem. At least every University is the best at something in New Zealand. New Zealand has fully funded Universities since most of them were established. Hell when my Dad went to University it was "free"! I pay about $900 per paper.
Well yeah, the perspective you have from New Zealand is vastly different from that here in the United States. There's damn near a university in every town in most states (or at least seems that way). Hell, I can name probably 20 universities here in the state of Ohio.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:42 PM   #31
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Get rid of the exams and we've solved that problem
Then you lose the ability to inexpensively 'evaluate' every student, school and school system in the country based on a easily quantifiable metric. I'm not big on standardized test but I understand why they are used. I'm sure there are better ways to measure educational success but they probably cost prohibitive. At some point everyone in the country has to agree that education is important and shouldn't be one of the first things on the chopping block when budgets start to fall short.


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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:43 PM   #32
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Then you lose the ability to inexpensively 'evaluate' every student, school and school system in the country based on a easily quantifiable metric. I'm not big on standardized test but I understand why they are used. I'm sure there are better ways to measure educational success but they probably cost prohibitive. At some point everyone in the country has to agree that education is important and shouldn't be one of the first things on the chopping block when budgets start to fall short.


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Those tests don't evaluate ****. Nothing. At all.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:44 PM   #33
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But if you're an idiot with a DUI and multiple alcohol/behavior issues, it's all good if you're a pro-quality WR at ND, cough
Would you identify this scholarly fellow, that I might research his history?
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:54 PM   #34
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Those tests don't evaluate ****. Nothing. At all.
Eh...

For a lot of non-science exams the exams are really exercises in writing essays.


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Well yeah, the perspective you have from New Zealand is vastly different from that here in the United States. There's damn near a university in every town in most states (or at least seems that way). Hell, I can name probably 20 universities here in the state of Ohio.
There doesn't really need to be more than fiveish publicly funded Universities per state.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 08:57 PM   #35
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Eh...

For a lot of non-science exams the exams are really exercises in writing essays.
Doesn't matter. At no point is that exam even remotely capable of determining how a student will do in college.



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There doesn't really need to be more than fiveish publicly funded Universities per state.
Why 5?
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 09:02 PM   #36
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Why 5?
Marketing Paper

For a Marketing case study we studied American Universities. Interesting ****. So its not completely random. For our assignment we had to come up with a (theoretical) plan to improve the Universities. We made the system more socialist like so I think we missed the point of Marketing. :P

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Old Apr 24, 2012, 09:42 PM   #37
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Those tests don't evaluate ****. Nothing. At all.
I put evaluate in quotes for a reason. I think the test can give a facet of information but not the whole picture.


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Old Apr 24, 2012, 09:59 PM   #38
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I thought we had all these "people" confined to politics and law?

Guess not.
No. I majored in 'government' and 'American history' in college before I got my true calling... (but anyway) And I got a rude wake up to the way capitalism works in 'the sticks'. Apparently major international corporations can't just buy politicians (local and federal) but they can also buy universities (the University of Michigan) but also the local colleges and the local high schools too.

Yes, they can act all coy and fan their millions and draw all kinds of people to their side to take their money, and their side. Even in spite of a huge mountain of 'scientific evidence' that they are wrong and the sky really is blue.

I sat in a meeting so angry and disgusted by the BS that the corporate UofM whore was spouting that I stood up and confronted him myself. He was pissed because a member of 'the stupid class' actually had the nerve to call him on his BS. It was nearly hysterical. He thought that he had all of us snowed because he came from 'the BIG university' and 'knew everything' and was 'taking care of us' and should 'be grateful' that he was taking time out of his busy schedule to stoop down and talk to us heathen...

Only, one of the heathen had worked for 10 years on university research projects and statistical analysis and started asking pointed questions about his self serving study and how the stats were done. Oh boy he wasn't prepared. He didn't expect to have to defend his research (his retirement fund more like) to heathens like those that were in attendance. Worse, most of the heathen were entranced by his rhetoric and his command of the BS.

Except for one...

And I ruined his ego trip, and got the heathen wondering why the 'big university professor' looked like he'd been sucker punched to the stomach... And he was PISSED!

So yes, everyone has their price, and university departments can be bought, and owned, for a surprisingly small amount of money...

Sorry for the long winded comments...

Oh, and I also got in an email argument with the very pro-corporate local department of health head who had just accepted an 'honorarium' from the same corporation to fund a gala party for their year end meeting. It was quite an affair from what I heard. 'Spared no expense'... The guy's grasp of statistics was just slightly better than the average newspaper readers...

----------

And regarding computer science education...

I was at a party a number of years ago and happened to be talking to a PHD candidate from the computer science department of the local big 10 university. happened to work there and had just had a problem with a 'MUX' box. A multiplexor... So we started discussing that part of the computer biz at that time and he had no clue what a mux, let alone what multiplexing was. And he was to be a PHD graduate? And had never heard of multiplexing? Ever?

Wow... The university at the time had hundreds, if not thousands, of mux boxes all over campus... You would have thought that he would have heard of them at some point...
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:05 PM   #39
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[/COLOR]And regarding computer science education...

I was at a party a number of years ago and happened to be talking to a PHD candidate from the computer science department of the local big 10 university. happened to work there and had just had a problem with a 'MUX' box. A multiplexor... So we started discussing that part of the computer biz at that time and he had no clue what a mux, let alone what multiplexing was. And he was to be a PHD graduate? And had never heard of multiplexing? Ever?

Wow... The university at the time had hundreds, if not thousands, of mux boxes all over campus... You would have thought that he would have heard of them at some point...
He is a computer science phd candidate, not a networking/IT graduate.
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Old Apr 24, 2012, 11:41 PM   #40
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And regarding computer science education...
I know American families who send their kids to Australia and New Zealand for higher education in general because its far cheaper and the quality of education is the same if not better. When I was a Student Advisor I was amazed at just how many international students there were.


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He is a computer science phd candidate, not a networking/IT graduate.
Most Universities make a basic Networking paper in the Bachelors compulsory. At Waikato it is COMP202.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 07:49 AM   #41
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Would you identify this scholarly fellow, that I might research his history?
Michael Floyd. The best part was sticking around last year for his senior year to graduate, only to have an offseason DUI right before the season started.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 08:37 AM   #42
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Marketing Paper

For a Marketing case study we studied American Universities. Interesting ****. So its not completely random. For our assignment we had to come up with a (theoretical) plan to improve the Universities. We made the system more socialist like so I think we missed the point of Marketing. :P
I would be interested in reading it. If not though it's cool, I was just wondering how you came up with that number, and now you've gained my respect by actually doing something instead of spouting off nonsense.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 08:49 AM   #43
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I would be interested in reading it. If not though it's cool, I was just wondering how you came up with that number, and now you've gained my respect by actually doing something instead of spouting off nonsense.
I would love to post it to you, but I don't have a final copy. I could ask the lecturer though. Since I'm a Maths and CompSci student I did most of the statistical analysis and research, my Partner who is in Marketing did the final writeup.

Was bloody hard, but interesting. Failed the exam though so I only got a C+ for my grade.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 09:30 AM   #44
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I know American families who send their kids to Australia and New Zealand for higher education in general because its far cheaper and the quality of education is the same if not better. When I was a Student Advisor I was amazed at just how many international students there were.




Most Universities make a basic Networking paper in the Bachelors compulsory. At Waikato it is COMP202.
I realize that most schools will require a basic networking course, but at the same time to assume that just because someone is a Phd candidate in computer science that they also must be an expert in networking technologies is a bit naive. He could be focusing in robotics or ANNs for all we know.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 09:34 AM   #45
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I realize that most schools will require a basic networking course, but at the same time to assume that just because someone is a Phd candidate in computer science that they also must be an expert in networking technologies is a bit naive. He could be focusing in robotics or ANNs for all we know.
Multiplexing though is a really simple concept.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 10:28 AM   #46
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Michael Floyd. The best part was sticking around last year for his senior year to graduate, only to have an offseason DUI right before the season started.
Thanks.

Well, they 'handled' it.

He is obviously an idiot for the DUI, but it says nothing about having to get his grades up with basket-weaving, or the like.

As far as I know you still need to maintain your grades to play.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 10:33 AM   #47
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I would love to post it to you, but I don't have a final copy. I could ask the lecturer though. Since I'm a Maths and CompSci student I did most of the statistical analysis and research, my Partner who is in Marketing did the final writeup.

Was bloody hard, but interesting. Failed the exam though so I only got a C+ for my grade.
We have a saying in America "Cs get degrees".
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 02:55 PM   #48
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We have a saying in America "Cs get degrees".
**** Cs, I want Honours.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 03:18 PM   #49
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I agree. I'm striving for As. Mainly because it helps me with internships.
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Old Apr 25, 2012, 03:34 PM   #50
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Multiplexing though is a really simple concept.
There are many simple concepts that just fall through the cracks after the years, replaced by stuff you are actually focusing/working on. Since you are still in school you may have not experienced this yet, but you will find out in a decade or so.
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