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Old Apr 26, 2012, 04:47 PM   #76
mzjin
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To an extent. They both have the con/pro areas, but overall, l'd say that OSX is very, very good. Once you learn to use the gestures, you wonder how you ever did without it. I used a laptop (running Windows 7) after using OSX for almost a year, it feels cumbersome.


Only 4 gripes about OSX -

1) minimising/maximising apps (Windows is way better and goes full real estate with 1 click. The orange/green never go wide, you always have to drag it out)
2) CMD+Tab, Windows is way better. Programs pop up on screen, even if they are sitting in the dock. On OSX, if you minimise a app and it's sitting in the dock, then CMD+Tab, it only opens it up in the top menu, the program still sits in the dock.
3) Dragging 2 open windows next to each other in Windows, and they snap into half screen. OSX needs this. When copying files, it's so much easier
4) Copy and Paste. Yes, there is CMD+C > CMD+Option+V. But it does get cumbersome sometimes....
I use OSX for the most part... I own an iMac and a Macbook Pro.

Some of those functions you listed are available. Window Snapping - BetterSnapTool from App store. Virtual desktops and OSX shortcuts mean you don't need to minimize windows.
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Old Apr 27, 2012, 09:24 PM   #77
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I use OSX for the most part... I own an iMac and a Macbook Pro.

Some of those functions you listed are available. Window Snapping - BetterSnapTool from App store. Virtual desktops and OSX shortcuts mean you don't need to minimize windows.
I was talking straight out of the box, OSX doesn't come with these function. I don't want to waste time on the app store looking for apps that might/might no work...
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 03:07 AM   #78
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My first Apple Mac computer (MacBook Pro intel core duo) purchased 6 years ago for my university studies. I've now handed it down to my 11year, as she starts high school in september

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Old Apr 28, 2012, 01:02 PM   #79
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My first Apple Mac computer (MacBook Pro intel core duo) purchased 6 years ago for my university studies. I've now handed it down to my 11year, as she starts high school in september

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your 11yr old starts high school??
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 01:06 PM   #80
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Yeah dude!
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Old Apr 28, 2012, 05:28 PM   #81
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Yeah dude!
High School must mean something completely different in the UK then States lol, b/c here an 11yr old would normally be in 5th grade lol.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:10 AM   #82
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Haha! I have no idea. We leave high school for higher education (college) at 16, then onwards to university at 18.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:30 AM   #83
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Haha! I have no idea. We leave high school for higher education (college) at 16, then onwards to university at 18.
Isn't pre-uni classified as Further Education? Thought Higher Education is after A-Levels (or equivalent) and into uni.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 06:38 AM   #84
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To an extent. They both have the con/pro areas, but overall, l'd say that OSX is very, very good. Once you learn to use the gestures, you wonder how you ever did without it. I used a laptop (running Windows 7) after using OSX for almost a year, it feels cumbersome.


Only 4 gripes about OSX -

1) minimising/maximising apps (Windows is way better and goes full real estate with 1 click. The orange/green never go wide, you always have to drag it out)
2) CMD+Tab, Windows is way better. Programs pop up on screen, even if they are sitting in the dock. On OSX, if you minimise a app and it's sitting in the dock, then CMD+Tab, it only opens it up in the top menu, the program still sits in the dock.
3) Dragging 2 open windows next to each other in Windows, and they snap into half screen. OSX needs this. When copying files, it's so much easier
4) Copy and Paste. Yes, there is CMD+C > CMD+Option+V. But it does get cumbersome sometimes....
woo finally someone who understand what is really missing in OSX xD, u know if they had that before i probably wouldn't have hesitated in getting it xD.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 07:20 AM   #85
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A lot (though not all) of PC laptops are built down to a price, rather than up to a standard.

Both my daughters have 15" Dell Inspiron laptops, which on the surface are higher spec than my 2008 MBP, but when you dig deeper they come up lacking.

The Dells have no Firewire 800, no Bluetooth, only 100Mbps Ethernet, only 802.11g Wi-Fi and compared to my MBP the screens are cr@p - you only have to move a small angle away from looking straight at them for the image quality to drop off dramatically. Both have had problems with the power lead (need to hold it at a certain angle to make contact) whereas the MagSafe connector on Macs is brilliant.

As for OS X vs. Windows most of it has been covered but one thing that I've not seen mentioned is software updates. If OS X requires a reboot after installing an update it tells you before you do the update (and so does Ubuntu Linux) whereas even Windows 7 only says that you may have to reboot - you won't know for certain until you've installed the update.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 07:42 AM   #86
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Hi all,
New to the forum, never had a mac before, planning to take the plunge when the redesign comes out in (potentially) June.
My question is, why is a MacBook better, than say an ultra book?
Thanks
Ask a Windows fan, cause many of them will state the MacBook Pro is a superior laptop to any Windows offering still.
Probably because of the balance between power, size, weight, battery life and build quality is still the best out there.
Plus Apple are still the only company to offer the MagSafe, I have not seen anyone develop something similar and I have managed to accidentally pull mine off a few times, and I dread to think what would happen if I had a normal power connection.

I'm not going to mention OSX cause that's an OS, it doesn't make the MacBook Pro any better as it's personal preference if you like it. Instead I talk about the hardware, and to me in my mind, the MacBook Pro is STILL the best compromise on the market. Apple offer high end CPU's, fantastic displays, useful features, portability. I think the only machine that comes close is the Razer Blade gaming laptop because it too is made up to a high standard and offers something different, it realises it needs to compromise and be a laptop, like the Mac.

Last edited by apolloa; Apr 29, 2012 at 07:49 AM.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 07:55 AM   #87
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One other aspect of MacBook(Pro) design is that the air intake for the cooling fans is not on the bottom of the case like it is on most PC laptops (certainly Dells). I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that MacBook(Pro)s draw the air in through the speaker grilles and exhaust it from the back edge of the case, in front of the lid hinge.

This means that if you use them on your lap you don't restrict - or even completely block - the air intakes.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 08:46 AM   #88
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woo finally someone who understand what is really missing in OSX xD, u know if they had that before i probably wouldn't have hesitated in getting it xD.
Yeah, you have to admit, OSX is still seen as a 'toy' in business world. You can argue this and that till you turn blue in the face, but when it comes to heavy business use, Windows is far, far, far ahead in it's ways of doing things.
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 09:29 AM   #89
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One other aspect of MacBook(Pro) design is that the air intake for the cooling fans is not on the bottom of the case like it is on most PC laptops (certainly Dells). I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that MacBook(Pro)s draw the air in through the speaker grilles and exhaust it from the back edge of the case, in front of the lid hinge.

This means that if you use them on your lap you don't restrict - or even completely block - the air intakes.
The intake and the exhaust are both at the hinge end but I totally agree with you regarding the vents which is often overlooked when people are making their choices & purchases. A lot of other laptops have them on the underbelly which restricts you on how you use the laptop and/or the side which also can be a pain (eg. cooking thumbs when using a mouse etc.).
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 10:43 AM   #90
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Ok then, would the person who marked me down care to explain why? Or is that beyond your capabilities? Go on, give a reason why you disliked my post....
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Old Apr 29, 2012, 02:29 PM   #91
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Macbook is superior because of macsafe and its trackpad. Although I am not sure if windows laptops now support a full range of multitouch gestures and if programs such as BetterTouchTool exists that can tap into the full potential of the trackpad.

OS X is just a medium to do things with and is highly overrated by alot of fanboys here. I don't see how its different than windows. I can open up pdfs, write emails, browse the web, watch movies, listen to music on windows too. Although if windows don't have support for multitouch gestures than that is definitely an advantage that OS X has. I also do think OS X looks better than windows too.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 02:28 PM   #92
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 02:37 PM   #93
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its just a computer, sure its way better than the $400 dells or various other crappy windows laptops but if you were to get a $1700 windows laptop than it would be just as good maybe better than a MBP.


thats my 2 cents
Even on high end Windows laptops you tend to get plastic cases, less than great screens, keyboards that flex and grossly inferior trackpads.

It's not that you couldn't build a Windowss laptop with equally good components. The problem is getting people to pay for one when on paper it wouldn't be any better than a machine costing less.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 02:40 PM   #94
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It is not just OS X, I would even take System 7, Mac OS 8, or Mac OS 9 over any of Microsoft Windows' current offerings, any day of the week. I was a big fan of Classic Mac OS, and I refused to switch over to OS X for the first few years until they finally got all of the bugs worked out (late builds of Jaguar into Panther). I found Mac OS 8 and OS 9 to be very productive operating systems in their own right, and much more powerful than Windows, both simpler and more elegant. I have always felt 'out of place' using Windows, and feel that it is a 2nd rate operating system, still is...I refuse to use Windows!

I cannot understand why all of these PC manufacturers that strive to make great hardware, make sleek and innovative machines, would load such a CRAP operating system on their computers and try to sell them running this ********* which is Windows. Come on, it's 2012 -- there are many Linux builds that are more elegant, more powerful, sleeker, and easier to use, add to that more stable than WINDOWS. This, I don't understand!

Edit: Okay, I will agree that Microsoft has considerably improved the stability of Windows -- but still, it's bloated, ugly, and a POS to use. Getting hardware to interface with Windows can still sometimes be a royal pain in the rear. Troubleshooting Windows is no fun. Part of the great things about Macs is, they just work, they are extremely easy to use, the OS is highly customizable and very powerful, and hardware interfacing is a breeze. The device compatibility may not be nearly as big as the Windows ecosystem, but for the hardware that is 100% Mac compatible, it is a breeze to use. One of the drawbacks with Macs (many people express their frustrations) is the lack of video card compatibility (with Mac Pro). Many of the video cards, PCI cards, and PCIe storage solutions/hardware interfaces are simply not compatible with the Mac. Apple has a very specified realm of hardware that they 'allow' to be used with Mac and will not support anything outside of this -- so yes, the Mac is a *very* closed system. Apple has their own firmware they use with all their machines, and they use EFI firmware. This is the way of 'closing' the system and preventing hacking/unauthorized manipulation of the hardware. Many PC folks and DIY-ers criticize the Mac based on this, and believe Apple is 'screwing' their customers by making the Mac a 'closed' system like they have. So the ultimate decision is a trade-off, having a very stable and rock-solid system, but having very little leeway to tweak the software or hardware to meet your custom enthusiast needs.
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Old May 1, 2012, 06:29 AM   #95
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It is not just OS X, I would even take System 7, Mac OS 8, or Mac OS 9 over any of Microsoft Windows' current offerings, any day of the week. I was a big fan of Classic Mac OS, and I refused to switch over to OS X for the first few years until they finally got
all of the bugs worked out (late builds of Jaguar into Panther). I found Mac OS 8 and OS 9 to be very productive operating systems in their own right, and much more powerful than Windows, both simpler and more elegant. I have always felt 'out of place' using Windows, and feel that it is a 2nd rate operating system, still is...I refuse to use Windows!

I cannot understand why all of these PC manufacturers that strive to make great hardware, make sleek and innovative machines, would load such a CRAP operating system on their computers and try to sell them running this ********* which is Windows. Come on, it's 2012 -- there are many Linux builds that are more elegant, more powerful, sleeker, and easier to use, add to that more stable than WINDOWS. This, I don't understand!

Edit: Okay, I will agree that Microsoft has considerably improved the stability of Windows -- but still, it's bloated, ugly, and a POS to use. Getting hardware to interface with Windows can still sometimes be a royal pain in the rear. Troubleshooting Windows is no fun. Part of the great things about Macs is, they just work, they are extremely easy to use, the OS is highly customizable and very powerful, and hardware interfacing is a breeze. The device compatibility may not be nearly as big as the Windows ecosystem, but for the hardware that is 100% Mac compatible, it is a breeze to use. One of the drawbacks with Macs (many people express their frustrations) is the lack of video card compatibility (with Mac Pro). Many of the video cards, PCI cards, and PCIe storage solutions/hardware interfaces are simply not compatible with the Mac. Apple has a very specified realm of hardware that they 'allow' to be used with Mac and will not support anything outside of this -- so yes, the Mac is a *very* closed system. Apple has their own firmware they use with all their machines, and they use EFI firmware. This is the way of 'closing' the system and preventing hacking/unauthorized manipulation of the hardware. Many PC folks and DIY-ers criticize the Mac based on this, and believe Apple is 'screwing' their customers by making the Mac a 'closed' system like they have. So the ultimate decision is a trade-off, having a very stable and rock-solid system, but having very little leeway to tweak the software or hardware to meet your custom enthusiast needs.
Does that mean not all external hard drives will run on a mac?
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:00 AM   #96
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Even on high end Windows laptops you tend to get plastic cases, less than great screens, keyboards that flex and grossly inferior trackpads.

It's not that you couldn't build a Windowss laptop with equally good components. The problem is getting people to pay for one when on paper it wouldn't be any better than a machine costing less.
I agree, but since Apple set the standard a number of years ago other vendors have copied and started to make laptops out of metal, ASUS and Toshiba l think.

Will be interesting to see the upcoming refresh.
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:11 AM   #97
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Yeah, you have to admit, OSX is still seen as a 'toy' in business world. You can argue this and that till you turn blue in the face, but when it comes to heavy business use, Windows is far, far, far ahead in it's ways of doing things.
Are you serious? Unless you mean the UI, in which case OS != UI (with Linux you can choose from any number of UIs - even switch between them on a running system - but it's still the same OS).
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:12 AM   #98
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Are you serious? Unless you mean the UI, in which case OS != UI (with Linux you can choose from any number of UIs - even switch between them on a running system - but it's still the same OS).
Not talking back of house IT departments. Unix ******'s all over windows on that, that's obvious.
Maybe I should have been clearer. I'm talking just normal business people.
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Old May 1, 2012, 08:54 AM   #99
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Does that mean not all external hard drives will run on a mac?
Most external hard drives will work on a Mac if they are USB or FireWire. They will need to be reformatted to Mac OS X HFS+ Journaled or whatever Mac format you choose to use.

Some SSD PCIe (solid-state) storage card solutions will not work on the Mac, such as the RevoDrive and a few others. OWC (Mac Sales.com) has a new SSD PCIe that DOES work on the Mac Pro....the key is that the card has to have the correct drivers and firmware to interface with the Mac.
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Old May 1, 2012, 10:27 AM   #100
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I cannot understand why all of these PC manufacturers that strive to make great hardware, make sleek and innovative machines, would load such a CRAP operating system on their computers and try to sell them running this ********* which is Windows. Come on, it's 2012 -- there are many Linux builds that are more elegant, more powerful, sleeker, and easier to use, add to that more stable than WINDOWS. This, I don't understand!

Edit: Okay, I will agree that Microsoft has considerably improved the stability of Windows -- but still, it's bloated, ugly, and a POS to use. Getting hardware to interface with Windows can still sometimes be a royal pain in the rear. Troubleshooting Windows is no fun. Part of the great things about Macs is, they just work, they are extremely easy to use, the OS is highly customizable and very powerful, and hardware interfacing is a breeze. The device compatibility may not be nearly as big as the Windows ecosystem, but for the hardware that is 100% Mac compatible, it is a breeze to use.
Windows 7 isn't that difficult to use, and it's no more irritating to troubleshoot than OSX can be at times. They both have their quirks. I've just got most of my applications and things set up under OSX. Either one is relatively simple when you're just using it as is, out of the box, with nothing else connected. If the Windows machine has bloatware, I suggest a clean installation. In either case you should maintain a backup of your primary drive. Since you mentioned Linux, many of those OEMs have Linux options for configuring a system.

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Does that mean not all external hard drives will run on a mac?
Many of the Windows format types will run assuming you're on at least Snow Leopard. I recall some of the older format types like FAT32 had issues with older OS versions. I can't find a good reference right now or I would provide one.
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