Think about it a little. You say "Governments around the world uniformly do a 'poor' job of using the taxpayers $$ wisely." So you admit that some level of waste is inevitable. It happens everywhere - in government, in companies and in our personal finances. This has nothing to do with taxes being bad or good thing. We know that there is waste in Medicare, does it mean that we should close it and let people die? No. We fight the waste and not destroy the system. Americans complaining about their government doing too much is quite a ridiculous thing for those who lived overseas. Believe me, you do not want to live in countries with low taxes and weak governments. And if you do, you can always immigrate to, say, Somalia and pay nothing in taxes. People just do not realize that strong government is what allows them to have a stable business and make money in a first place.
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How Apple Minimizes its Corporate Tax Burden
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Think about it a little. You say "Governments around the world uniformly do a 'poor' job of using the taxpayers $$ wisely." So you admit that some level of waste is inevitable. It happens everywhere - in government, in companies and in our personal finances. This has nothing to do with taxes being bad or good thing. We know that there is waste in Medicare, does it mean that we should close it and let people die? No. We fight the waste and not destroy the system. Americans complaining about their government doing too much is quite a ridiculous thing for those who lived overseas. Believe me, you do not want to live in countries with low taxes and weak governments. And if you do, you can always immigrate to, say, Somalia and pay nothing in taxes. People just do not realize that strong government is what allows them to have a stable business and make money in a first place.
Most likely that is the case. I would bet on it if I was a betting man. So what the 99% need to do is learn from the 1%. Does the 99% have time to do something different and learn? The average American watches more than 4 hours of TV each day. I got rid of my T.V. (5 years ago) and gained four hours a day (4 X 365 = 1460 hours per year). So yes, there is time to commit to doing something different. The average family prefers entertainment, so it likely will not happen. That does NOT mean you penalize those that are in a place you want to be because you want to sit and watch T.V.
Those laws already exist, with specific parameters and conditions. If there was a law in the books that said you could kill me and you met whatever parameters were in that law (such as self defense, as I mentioned earlier) , yes, you could kill me without facing arrest.
You are missing the point: Apple, and every other company out there that does the same thing, is following the letter of the laws and regulations established by the Government, therefore, like it or not, they are not doing anything illegal here.
The real issue here is the U.S. tax system. Paying taxes is handled like any other business function in a corporation. If establishing all the foreign presence in order to funnel specific business functions, income, and expenses through them did not pose significant economic benefit, corporations would not do so. As it is now, corporations would pay a lot more in taxes if they performed all those functions in the U.S. and since they are global entities, they will perform those functions where it is costs less to do so.
Hell, I could pay more taxes if I did not claim my son in my tax return but,
a) The tax code says I'm allowed to take an extra deduction for him
b) I have an infant son whom I support, and I meet all the conditions set forth in the tax code for taking the deduction
So, why would I choose to forego the deduction and pay more in taxes? Why would I then expect that any other entity (individual or otherwise) should behave differently with regard to the tax code?
Because some people might think you're vewwy vewwy bad. I know....it's borderline retarded the arguments that are being presented for Apple to not take legal tax breaks.
This is not against Apple or whatever corporation that does this.
It's against a system that ALLOWS this to happen.
If I can pay less, I'd obviously do it. But I usually can't. And corporations making millions in profits can.
The usual argument is "we create jobs". Yes, you create jobs...and earn millions while doing it.
He/she did think about it a lot. You need to think a little. First, your point about waste is a BIG OLD FAIL! The government runs at TRILLIONS deficit. Apple doesn't. Then you go on about Medicare. Let me help you out here, YES, WE SHOULD GET RID OF MEDICARE. Should we let people die? What the hell does that have to do with anything? People die with or without Medicare. People dying is not dependent solely on Medicare, and people on Medicare... DIE! So BAD example! Then your Government drivel. Let me help you again, The Federal government is supposed to have limited and controlled power. PERIOD! No, you don't reward bad behavior, and the Federal Governments Fiscal policy is the definition of BAD!
I understand that they single out the most profitable corporation in the US. The one who has built an empire on good vibes, and advertising with people who look like they care about taxes and good vibesWhat Apple is doing might not be illegal, but clearly it is unethical. In the end California and the US suffer the consequences of having less revenue, perhaps in intangible ways, worse roads, worse schools, worse healthcare. In the end, these corporations (perhaps as some point with the acquiescence of Congress) are cheating this country out of taxes that should have been paid, shifting the burden to the people.
Horse crap. It is NOT unethical! Gee maybe, just maybe, the U.S. Government should do like every citizen has to do and live within their means? The unethical component here is the U.S. Government!
My point is not moot. Yo don't even have a point so I don't know why you are even posting. Does ANYONE you know offer and actually pay MORE taxes because they feel it is the right thing to do? Of course you don't. What do European countries and their tax rates/laws have to do with OUR tax rate in the US? Nothing. What was your point again?
Bottom line is that Apple and ALL big corporations have TEAMS of people on very nicely paid salaries to figure out how to pay the least amount of taxes possible. They would be considered negligent if they didn't. People need to stop crying about what others pay in taxes - if you don't like it write to congress and try to get the tax code reformed. That is the only way tax change will come about.
It's the fault of corrupt companies giving money to corrupt congress who write a corrupt tax code
Interesting that you didn't bring up Google doing the exact same thing:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-...illion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
Stories like this provide support for raising the tax rates on capital gains and dividends.
One of the arguments against raising the rate on dividends is that the money has "already been taxed". In the case of AAPL, the dividend has only been taxed at less than 10%, so the "already been taxed" argument doesn't really hold much weight.
I'm looking forward to receiving dividends on my AAPL stock later this year.
One of the arguments against raising the rate on dividends is that the money has "already been taxed". In the case of AAPL, the dividend has only been taxed at less than 10%, so the "already been taxed" argument doesn't really hold much weight.
I'm looking forward to receiving dividends on my AAPL stock later this year.
Amazing... A company run by a board of flaming tax and spend liberals that claim the corporations should pay more, yet they never practice what they preach. We have got to run these socialists out of office, starting with anyone that has a D next o their name. But it doesn't stop with them.... A few R's need to go!
How is taking full advantage of the ridiculous US tax code immoral? EVERY LARGE COMPANY DOES THIS. I would say that whoever does not understand this is the ignorant one. It is 100% legal and part of our tax laws - if you don't like it do something about getting the tax code CHANGED.
Check his post history. It's not that interesting, in fact it's quite clear what his mo is! Like i already said in this thread, every company in the world does or would do this if allowed
I don't see a problem here. Unless an organization is a charity or something like it, it exists to make a profit.
God, I really miss the days where it was OK in the U.S. to believe that you could profit financially if you "built a better mouse trap" ...
Unless you think it through, it becomes a loose-loose situation. The reason Apple has grown at the rate it has is because it hasn't had to take 1 out of every three dollars it makes and give it to the government. Instead that resource got to be used for other business related things (like employees, benefits, R&D, growth etc). It is blatantly stupid, asinine, idiocy to think that if Apple didn't use these "tax havens" that they would still be this big. They wouldn't. And we'd all be out this technology, jobs, etc. Taking from anyone (company corporation etc) to give to the government thinking that the money will be better used is the pinnacle of obliviousness. The Government would extend itself even further into debt. Right now there is a debt limit. The government keeps moving it...
You don't help someone get out of debt by giving them a handout. You teach them good economic skills, get them living in their means, then expand their means. Compare the number of households in the U.S. that have cable, to the number that live below the poverty line. It's amazing that ANYONE that lives below the poverty line would PAY to watch advertising. But that's what happens. Do people have a right to be stupid? YES! Do they have a right to whine when they can't afford necessities because too much of their money is tied up in entertainment? NO, they should ****!
And before you attack me with outliers, yes I'm aware that there are outliers. Yes, there are people that do it right, and still take a hit. The problem is, according to statistics (and personal experience) they are.... outliers. Most people I've seen on welfare and food stamps have cable, cell phones, Internet connections, and act like they are entitled. They keep getting while other people have to work. If I'm going to support lifestyle, I prefer to support contributing members of society.
Instead of villafying the greedy corporations how about with starting with the greedy state legislatures that believe that they have the RIGHT to take our money for any purpose. If, in the case of Apple, California would get its collective act together and become fiscally responisble, companies like Apple would resort to the tactics outlined in this article.
I agree with you. I find it interesting how willing some people are to send billions of dollars into the hands of slimy politicians. We all know they can't be trusted, and yet they deserve to just take from those who are successful so they can distribute the money as they see fit.
And speaking of sense of entitlement, forget the individual - the government has the most errant and dangerous sense of entitlement of all.
Why is that that majority of citizens in western style democracies fall for this tripe over and over again? The class warfare argument all over the world leads so many of you to be blind to the facts and the real problems:
The Gross Domestic Product of the US is: 14.59 trillion
The US National Debt is: 15.689 trillion
If all monies were 100% collected, and no one from Joe Average blue collar to billionaires were allowed to keep anything that they made, we would still be a bankrupt country.
And, for those starry eyed europeans who love to chime in about la vie en rose in europe:
Italy GDP: 2.05 trillion
Italy National Debt: 2.5 trillion
Spain GDP: 1.41 trillion
Spain National Debt: 930 billion
Greece GDP: 301 billion
Greece National Debt: 462 billion
Portugal GDP: 228 billion
Portugal National Debt: 201 billion
Germany GDP: 3.28 trillion
Germany National Debt: 2.62 trillion
France GDP: 2.56 trillion
France National Debt: 2.29 trillion
UK GDP: 2.25 trillion
UK National Debt: 1.62 trillion
All GDP's above are on average from 2010... Europe isn't in any better position 2011-2012.
The majority of the western world is either bankrupt or very close to being so.
Yet, instead of putting the blame squarely where it belongs (the people we elected and elect time and time again to run our countries) we all like lemmings jump at the chance to ride the class warfare bus.
There is a big difference between Apple, Inc. and Bank of America or Ford Motor Company and JP Morgan Chase. It is wholly acceptable to criticize crony capitalism, and the blank checks that were written to financial institutions creating debts that can never be paid. But, I am extremely wary of criticizing companies around the world that actually produce a product for consumer consumption and that push technology and progress forward.
We all need need a reality check and to stop being blinded by propaganda thrown at us from both sides of the political spectrum.
There is a huge misconception in this country about what our boys and girls in DC deem to be, "rich." You can blame this on the fact that most americans don't even touch on a basic economics course until they are in college. The majority of jobs created in this country are those created by small LLC's and S-Corporations and not monolith corporations such as Apple.
It is not a test case, but a fact that if taxes across the board were raised it would do little damage to our behemoth companies - it would however immensely effect the small business person. There is much bandied about as has been in the past about the magic number of $250,000 a year.
If your income is $250,000 before taxes in the State of New Jersey and you have a wife, three/four children, a midsize home and two cars in the driveway you're not living the high life. You are paying exorbitant rates of property taxes, municipal fees, State income taxes etc. down the line. If you want your children to be somewhat educated and involved in activities at the end of the day you're living an average lifestyle not high on the hog.
If you're an LLC which are pass thru entities on average, (all income is attached to your personal tax return usually) your gross revenues are a million dollars a year, you have five or six employees, the cost of doing business, insurance etc. plus the four kids and a wife scenario above - you're not, "rich." Certainly not in this State or in California etc. The way our tax code works if new regulations are passed and rates are raised it will be the small guy who is put out of business or is precluded from expanding and hiring.
The blame game of who is and is not rich, and the absurdity of the mentality that you are entitled to other people's wealth, is a real sickness among western countries these days.
The only thing that is going to save any of your children's future is to cut government spending to 1/4 of what it is now, institute a flat and fair tax rate for everyone, (because let's not forget there is a gigantic percentage of this country that pays absolutely nothing into the system on the low end of the income spectrum not just the ultra high end!!) ban lobbyists and institute terms limits for every elected branch of government.
Wake up America! Your kids and grandmother are being molested at airports, they want to put thousands upon thousands of drones in our skies, kill the freedom of the internet before with SOPA and now they are trying with CISPA, ban you from travelling if you owe Uncle Sam a dime and on and on and on. But, you're all so freaking concerned about what's in your neighbor's wallet or pocketbook (because they tell you to be) or what's on reality television that you're asleep to the fact you're losing more and more of your rights day after day.
The Gross Domestic Product of the US is: 14.59 trillion
The US National Debt is: 15.689 trillion
If all monies were 100% collected, and no one from Joe Average blue collar to billionaires were allowed to keep anything that they made, we would still be a bankrupt country.
And, for those starry eyed europeans who love to chime in about la vie en rose in europe:
Italy GDP: 2.05 trillion
Italy National Debt: 2.5 trillion
Spain GDP: 1.41 trillion
Spain National Debt: 930 billion
Greece GDP: 301 billion
Greece National Debt: 462 billion
Portugal GDP: 228 billion
Portugal National Debt: 201 billion
Germany GDP: 3.28 trillion
Germany National Debt: 2.62 trillion
France GDP: 2.56 trillion
France National Debt: 2.29 trillion
UK GDP: 2.25 trillion
UK National Debt: 1.62 trillion
All GDP's above are on average from 2010... Europe isn't in any better position 2011-2012.
The majority of the western world is either bankrupt or very close to being so.
Yet, instead of putting the blame squarely where it belongs (the people we elected and elect time and time again to run our countries) we all like lemmings jump at the chance to ride the class warfare bus.
There is a big difference between Apple, Inc. and Bank of America or Ford Motor Company and JP Morgan Chase. It is wholly acceptable to criticize crony capitalism, and the blank checks that were written to financial institutions creating debts that can never be paid. But, I am extremely wary of criticizing companies around the world that actually produce a product for consumer consumption and that push technology and progress forward.
We all need need a reality check and to stop being blinded by propaganda thrown at us from both sides of the political spectrum.
There is a huge misconception in this country about what our boys and girls in DC deem to be, "rich." You can blame this on the fact that most americans don't even touch on a basic economics course until they are in college. The majority of jobs created in this country are those created by small LLC's and S-Corporations and not monolith corporations such as Apple.
It is not a test case, but a fact that if taxes across the board were raised it would do little damage to our behemoth companies - it would however immensely effect the small business person. There is much bandied about as has been in the past about the magic number of $250,000 a year.
If your income is $250,000 before taxes in the State of New Jersey and you have a wife, three/four children, a midsize home and two cars in the driveway you're not living the high life. You are paying exorbitant rates of property taxes, municipal fees, State income taxes etc. down the line. If you want your children to be somewhat educated and involved in activities at the end of the day you're living an average lifestyle not high on the hog.
If you're an LLC which are pass thru entities on average, (all income is attached to your personal tax return usually) your gross revenues are a million dollars a year, you have five or six employees, the cost of doing business, insurance etc. plus the four kids and a wife scenario above - you're not, "rich." Certainly not in this State or in California etc. The way our tax code works if new regulations are passed and rates are raised it will be the small guy who is put out of business or is precluded from expanding and hiring.
The blame game of who is and is not rich, and the absurdity of the mentality that you are entitled to other people's wealth, is a real sickness among western countries these days.
The only thing that is going to save any of your children's future is to cut government spending to 1/4 of what it is now, institute a flat and fair tax rate for everyone, (because let's not forget there is a gigantic percentage of this country that pays absolutely nothing into the system on the low end of the income spectrum not just the ultra high end!!) ban lobbyists and institute terms limits for every elected branch of government.
Wake up America! Your kids and grandmother are being molested at airports, they want to put thousands upon thousands of drones in our skies, kill the freedom of the internet before with SOPA and now they are trying with CISPA, ban you from travelling if you owe Uncle Sam a dime and on and on and on. But, you're all so freaking concerned about what's in your neighbor's wallet or pocketbook (because they tell you to be) or what's on reality television that you're asleep to the fact you're losing more and more of your rights day after day.
Well, not "ever". If the demand is elastic (which to be fair, does NOT seem to be the case for Apple's products), overall the *business* bears most of the burden.
Not only is it legal, it is REQUIRED of AAPL in the interests of shareholders (including me). If Apple did NOT do this, I would sue them and I would win.