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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Not at all. Things like this are either acceptable or unacceptable. It should not be tolerated either, not within the context of the media anyway.
This brings up a question though. Shouldn't we consider an author/speaker and the context of their platform in how we choose to interpret their comments. I don't know this "shock jock", but why should we hold him to a higher standard than we hold Howard Stern, Tom Leykis, Opie & Anthony, Russ Martin, or any other DJ whose job is to be controversial and "crude" on purpose? Personally, I think what he said was silly, but then again I find a lot of what those other DJ's say to be silly and outrageous as well.

It's kind of like stand up comedy. Many comics (Richard Pryor, Lewis Black, Eddie Murphy, Lisa Lampanelli, George Carlin, Dennis Leary, Louis C.K., Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Lenny Bruce, Ellen, Sarah Silverman, Andy Kaufman, etc.) say "over the top" and exaggerated things that are viewed as controversial, insensitive, discriminatory, etc.. They are generally not trying to make a comment about society or to espouse any specific moral view, they are simply being "edgy" on purpose in an effort to get a laugh or poke fun at a stereotype.

To say certain things should or shouldn't be "tolerated within the context of the media" is a pretty strong absolute. The "media" encompasses all kinds of venues (radio, TV, movies, magazines, news, etc. etc.) and we judge these mediums differently in how we interpret their message.

I think it's fair to say that generally when a "shock jock" or a "comic" makes an outrageous statement they are, in most cases, not actually trying to give you sound advice.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:10 PM   #52
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On a related note Rachel Maddow was on Howard Stern recently:

Howard Stern Asks Rachel Maddow About Putting Out for a Man
Quote:
Stern also asked Maddow whether she had ever experienced “insertion from a man.”

Said Maddow: "I'm never going to tell you that."

lol well if the answer isn't NO its probably...

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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by mscriv View Post
This brings up a question though. Shouldn't we consider an author/speaker and the context of their platform in how we choose to interpret their comments. I don't know this "shock jock", but why should we hold him to a higher standard than we hold Howard Stern, Tom Leykis, Opie & Anthony, Russ Martin, or any other DJ whose job is to be controversial and "crude" on purpose? Personally, I think what he said was silly, but then again I find a lot of what those other DJ's say to be silly and outrageous as well.

It's kind of like stand up comedy. Many comics (Richard Pryor, Lewis Black, Eddie Murphy, Lisa Lampanelli, George Carlin, Dennis Leary, Louis C.K., Jon Stewart, Bill Maher, Lenny Bruce, Ellen, Sarah Silverman, Andy Kaufman, etc.) say "over the top" and exaggerated things that are viewed as controversial, insensitive, discriminatory, etc.. They are generally not trying to make a comment about society or to espouse any specific moral view, they are simply being "edgy" on purpose in an effort to get a laugh or poke fun at a stereotype.

To say certain things should or shouldn't be "tolerated within the context of the media" is a pretty strong absolute. The "media" encompasses all kinds of venues (radio, TV, movies, magazines, news, etc. etc.) and we judge these mediums differently in how we interpret their message.

I think it's fair to say the when a "shock jock" or a "comic" makes an outrageous statement they are, in most cases, not actually trying to give you sound advice.
Perhaps, but there are also things that those people would not say either.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:28 PM   #54
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Perhaps, but there are also things that those people would not say either.
I totally get why you are upset Lee. I'm just saying in many cases when you "consider the source" it's not worth getting worked up about it. These kinds of things happen from time to time and we all know that the apology is more about sponsors, money, and image than it is genuinely about what the person said or making it up to the "offended party". It reminds me of a few years back when Don Imus said the Rutgers Women's Basketball team were a bunch of "nappy headed ho's". The whole thing was just dumb. It was dumb on Imus's part and silly on everyone who made such an issue out of it, bringing more attention and dragging the whole thing out.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:36 PM   #55
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I totally get why you are upset Lee. I'm just saying in many cases when you "consider the source" it's not worth getting worked up about it. These kinds of things happen from time to time and we all know that the apology is more about sponsors, money, and image than it is genuinely about what the person said or making it up to the "offended party" It reminds me of a few years back when Don Imus said the Rutgers Wome's Basketball team were a bunch of "nappy headed ho's". The whole thing was just dumb. It was dumb on Imus's part and silly on everyone who made such an issue out of it, bringing more attention and dragging the whole thing out.
Well, I don't know. Reading this guy's apology, it felt like it was at least somewhat genuine. I know what you mean, but still- people saying things like this should not go unchallenged.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:41 PM   #56
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People need to not take the radio DJ too serious.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 03:43 PM   #57
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I get where you are coming from mscriv, but I'm not sure if I entirely agree with your premise or your argument. I am a firm believer that freedom of speech does not mean you are free from the responsibility of the things you say. While context is important, there are boundary's of sensibility. While I believe that the DJ was being crude for crudeness sake (which some people may want) his "advice" could have been easily be interpreted as violent act towards the girl. He rightfully apologized, and I hope that message goes out to his listening audience.

As for your comedic examples (again context is important) many of them did want to incite change; Lenny Bruce won a lengthy trial upholding the freedom of speech using his shock comedy to expose the oft conflicting morality of the 60's. George Carlin used comedy to highlight faults in North American culture (like religion/morality, politics, consumerism). Richard Pryor, while using racism extensively as a topic, often used the 'jokes' to come to the conclusion that that kind of thinking was a waste of time. More modern comics like Jon Stewart use comedy to highlight the absurdity of the political environment of the day. They all wanted laughs, but I bet if you could ask each one of them, they all wanted their comedy to inspire change.

I agree that what's "tolerated within the context of the media" is judged differently on the medium and context, but one of the problems is that the context is becoming blurred. Thus when someone makes an outrageous statement (whether it be a political pundit, some political/religious talking head, shock jock, or comedian) it's at the point where what's serious and what's entertainment is difficult to discern. ...All in a world that is seemingly encouraged to forget how to think for themselves.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:14 PM   #58
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On a related note Rachel Maddow was on Howard Stern recently:

Howard Stern Asks Rachel Maddow About Putting Out for a Man



lol well if the answer isn't NO its probably...

She's an adult and is it the public eye. Asking Rachel Maddow this is a bit distasteful, but it doesn't seem like a big issue.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 04:41 PM   #59
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"You should get one of your friends to screw your daughter straight."

Ok, lets clear this up. If she is gay, the only way to "screw her straight" would be to rape her. A gay woman isn't going to want to be "screwed straight".
This is a radio dj. I doubt he thought this through before stating it. I read it more as an incredibly creepy statement than anything. It's not creepy because she's a lesbian. Even if this was the only time she ever kissed a girl (I'm not assuming either way), the DJ's suggestion was just gross.

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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
You can't possibly be serious. What twisted father would ever do such a thing? And you know damn well that's not even close to what he said.



Yeah, and it was a disgusting thing to say.
I agree with you that it's disgusting. Outside of that, I think this was just mental diarrhea from an idiot DJ.

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Originally Posted by leekohler View Post
Well, I don't know. Reading this guy's apology, it felt like it was at least somewhat genuine. I know what you mean, but still- people saying things like this should not go unchallenged.
He probably hadn't intended it that way. DJs don't have to be very bright. They need a few talking points and energy. Anyway...I think it's weird that the girl's father emailed a radio DJ on this. I don't think turning to a radio personality for advice is the way to handle such a thing, even if it made him uncomfortable. That she was kissing another girl really doesn't mean much anyway. I feel sorry for the girl. No one wants their dad to walk in when they're kissing someone (male or female), and the publicized statement probably just makes it more awkward.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 05:12 PM   #60
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I get where you are coming from mscriv, but I'm not sure if I entirely agree with your premise or your argument. I am a firm believer that freedom of speech does not mean you are free from the responsibility of the things you say. While context is important, there are boundary's of sensibility.
Great post! I think we agree more than we disagree. The problem with social responsibility in media though is that different people have different definitions of what responsibility is and different ideas of what it looks like. You are absolutely correct in saying that some comedians do try to challenge people to think about things, but those are definitely in the minority. And, more importantly, they are only espousing their personal interpretation on how things should go, so again, it's subjective.

It would seem the vast majority of entertainment media is more concerned with ratings, success, and money. Far too often they throw up the "I'm not a role model" or "this is just entertainment" explanation/excuse. I fully agree that media has an impact on viewers, however, we are responsible for teaching ourselves and our children to be critically thinking viewers who analyze and assess what they consume in entertainment and media. In a country with freedom of speech people have the right to say what they want even if I don't agree with it or find it entertaining. On the other side of the coin I have the right to express that I don't like what they are doing/saying and not watch it.

In my opinion the problem is when people get all worked up and draw attention to stupid stuff like this. I think it's completely immature to say "How dare you... I'm offended by...". Being offended is a choice, no one else has power over me and thus, no one has the ability to upset me. The problem is too many people don't understand this and even take it one step further in saying that they have the "right" not to be exposed to things that offend them. Please, that's just ignorance. Freedom means that I am not prohibited from engaging in any behavior I choose that is not against the law of the land. It does not mean that wherever I go people around me must not do things I don't like or disagree with.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 05:33 PM   #61
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How else is a young girl to work on her technique?

Perhaps Daddy wants some of that action.

Honestly, I smell a rat with regard to the initial phone call.

Who the **** does that????
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:36 PM   #62
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Great post! I think we agree more than we disagree. The problem with social responsibility in media though is that different people have different definitions of what responsibility is and different ideas of what it looks like. You are absolutely correct in saying that some comedians do try to challenge people to think about things, but those are definitely in the minority. And, more importantly, they are only espousing their personal interpretation on how things should go, so again, it's subjective.

It would seem the vast majority of entertainment media is more concerned with ratings, success, and money. Far too often they throw up the "I'm not a role model" or "this is just entertainment" explanation/excuse. I fully agree that media has an impact on viewers, however, we are responsible for teaching ourselves and our children to be critically thinking viewers who analyze and assess what they consume in entertainment and media. In a country with freedom of speech people have the right to say what they want even if I don't agree with it or find it entertaining. On the other side of the coin I have the right to express that I don't like what they are doing/saying and not watch it.

In my opinion the problem is when people get all worked up and draw attention to stupid stuff like this. I think it's completely immature to say "How dare you... I'm offended by...". Being offended is a choice, no one else has power over me and thus, no one has the ability to upset me. The problem is too many people don't understand this and even take it one step further in saying that they have the "right" not to be exposed to things that offend them. Please, that's just ignorance. Freedom means that I am not prohibited from engaging in any behavior I choose that is not against the law of the land. It does not mean that wherever I go people around me must not do things I don't like or disagree with.
No one here is saying he did not have the right to say what he said. But there are consequences for some things you say. The government did not tell this guy he could not say it, nor did he commit any crime.

For example, you have every legal right to tell your GF she's a bitch, but there will be consequences. I see nothing wrong with people challenging this guy for what he said.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:38 PM   #63
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No one here is saying he did not have the right to say what he said. But there are consequences for some things you say. The government did not tell this guy he could not say it, nor did he commit any crime.

For example, you have every legal right to tell your GF she's a bitch, but there will be consequences. I see nothing wrong with people challenging this guy for what he said.
I love when a business decides to can someone for something like this and people scream censorship. Its not. Censorship is when the government blocks what you can say. A business has every right to fire someone over something like this. Period.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:42 PM   #64
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I love when a business decides to can someone for something like this and people scream censorship. Its not. Censorship is when the government blocks what you can say. A business has every right to fire someone over something like this. Period.
Of course. I could get fired at work for saying the wrong thing too.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:45 PM   #65
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...
This is what broadcasting standards are for.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:47 PM   #66
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Of course. I could get fired at work for saying the wrong thing too.
Remind me again, why do you continue to remain there, and give credence to this bull-****??
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 06:59 PM   #67
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Of course. I could get fired at work for saying the wrong thing too.
Or facebooking something. But thats another thread....
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:06 PM   #68
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the problem is when people get all worked up and draw attention to stupid stuff like this. I think it's completely immature to say "How dare you... I'm offended by...". Being offended is a choice, no one else has power over me and thus, no one has the ability to upset me. The problem is too many people don't understand this and even take it one step further in saying that they have the "right" not to be exposed to things that offend them. Please, that's just ignorance. Freedom means that I am not prohibited from engaging in any behavior I choose that is not against the law of the land. It does not mean that wherever I go people around me must not do things I don't like or disagree with.
Best thread comment so far (outside of the earlier "narcissism" observation.)
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:39 PM   #69
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Best thread comment so far (outside of the earlier "narcissism" observation.)
Bullsomething. Being offended is a tool, nothing more.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:44 PM   #70
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TLDR but:

If you're calling a radio DJ for "Advice" you need your head read. They are there to provide ENTERTAINMENT. If you want serious advice see someone qualified and paid to give you proper advice. Like a counselor...
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 07:49 PM   #71
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This is what broadcasting standards are for.
We don't have broadcast standards. We have, "people get upset so the FCC reacts after someone makes a stink".

You can't say the 7 dirty words but you can use innuendo to basically say the same thing and not get in trouble for it.
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 08:34 PM   #72
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No one here is saying he did not have the right to say what he said. But there are consequences for some things you say. The government did not tell this guy he could not say it, nor did he commit any crime.

For example, you have every legal right to tell your GF she's a bitch, but there will be consequences. I see nothing wrong with people challenging this guy for what he said.
I agree with you Lee, there is nothing wrong with people challenging someone for something they say. However, like I said a above, context and the kind of media does make a difference in how much validity we should put in what is said.

Regarding the legal aspect of things, I was simply expounding upon the topic and responding to what Raid said. He/she is the one that brought up freedom of speech which carries the conversation to the legal side of things. You are absolutely correct about workplace environment and conduct. However, like MacNut alluded to in his post, often times companies and regulatory forces really don't care and only take action when there has been a complaint.

To be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't be challenged at times. I'm just saying that when it comes to things like this we should all consider the source, the context, and not overreact.
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Old May 1, 2012, 12:41 AM   #73
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Honestly, I smell a rat with regard to the initial phone call.

Who the **** does that????
Actually, the OP mentions an e-mail, not a call. That makes the story a little more believable, because people can say stuff over the interwebs that would be much harder to push out their mouths. Anonymity and all that.

Mostly, though, I think the dad was just hoping he might get a chance to watch
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Old May 1, 2012, 01:19 AM   #74
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Mostly, though, I think the dad was just hoping he might get a chance to watch.
Vicariously screwing your own daughter ... I doubt many dads would endorse that. Parenting may be hard — I wouldn't know personally as I never had any kids — but it seems to me pretty basic not to sexualize your own children in that way.

I wonder if all the hubbub found it's way back to the wife yet.

When it does, I think it could be a bit ... awkward.
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Old May 1, 2012, 01:25 AM   #75
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TLDR but:

If you're calling a radio DJ for "Advice" you need your head read. They are there to provide ENTERTAINMENT. If you want serious advice see someone qualified and paid to give you proper advice. Like a counselor...
Lol, corrective rape, it's funny because it actually happens, just not to people like you and the others in this thread that are making excuses for the guy. [sarcasm]

It was a joke in extremely poor taste and if the station wants to have any self respect they will let the guy go. I'm not saying he should be legally obliged to be fired, suffer any judicial consequences just that even joking about something that reenforces the logic behind corrective rape is grossly irresponsible even by the low standards of Radio DJs

I'm going to go ahead and cite the fact that not one single one of you who is making excuses for him is a lesbian and none of you legitimately have anything to personally fear from these attitudes.

Lucky you

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