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Old May 1, 2012, 04:15 PM   #26
Knara
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They don't. Their actions are of active resistance. It used to be passive. They don't understand or care about their own halo and slow adoption rate that IT usually endures. They are going to code some plug-ins for other companies and not worry about it. They really seem to want to be the toy's at work. So much effort in getting past that hurdle just to go right back. Their secrecy garners no respect at work.
Its very difficult to get large IT departments interested in Apple, given that they won't show anyone what their hardware/model roadmap is like so that we can plan budgets and refreshes around it.

Not to mention that compared to programs like Dell's Warranty Parts Direct, Apple just falls flat on its face.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:16 PM   #27
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I'll believe it when it happens, although it is nothing else than conjecture at this point.

They still need to provide a platform on which we can create the content people within the iOS eco system are consuming.
EXACTLY! A lot of talk over on the iMac forum is leaning towards Apple's shift toward iOS and the desktop being a relic of a previous computing age. But seriously, X-Code on an iPad? No thank you. For quite a ways into the forseeable future, I can't imagine anything but a desktop computer being used for iOS app creation, to feed the iToy consumers out there!
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:28 PM   #28
Knara
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EXACTLY! A lot of talk over on the iMac forum is leaning towards Apple's shift toward iOS and the desktop being a relic of a previous computing age. But seriously, X-Code on an iPad? No thank you. For quite a ways into the forseeable future, I can't imagine anything but a desktop computer being used for iOS app creation, to feed the iToy consumers out there!
Well, someone has to make the Apps for the App Store, after all.

But content creators (for lack of a better term) are hugely outnumbered by content consumers. In terms of sheer revenue generation potential, a focus on catering to the consumers makes sense for Apple.

As much as it annoys me, I understand it.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:29 PM   #29
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Its very difficult to get large IT departments interested in Apple, given that they won't show anyone what their hardware/model roadmap is like so that we can plan budgets and refreshes around it.

Not to mention that compared to programs like Dell's Warranty Parts Direct, Apple just falls flat on its face.
Really? Are you telling or aligning because that was/is exactly my point? But also they are interested. It's only when they find out how Apple treats them that they lose interest.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:33 PM   #30
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Just seeing some posts that are getting very close to imminent emotional breakdown.
Yeah, that's what bothers me. Some people just need to go outside and cool down. At some point in time, likely in the near future, there will be an announcement of some sort. Nothing anyone does is going to change what that announcement is, or when it it will happen.

So just sit back and relax.

As far as the roadmap comment above, if you're an important customer Apple will share some roadmap details. Just because they don't have a public mailing list for people to sign up for doesn't mean they don't do it. I've sat in on several of those meetings, and I knew people who sat in on those meetings all the way back to the original iMac.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:34 PM   #31
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Really? Are you telling or aligning because that was/is exactly my point? But also they are interested. It's only when they find out how Apple treats them that they lose interest.
Sure. I've had Apple reps in at a couple places I worked at. I've got a creative staff of about a dozen to a dozen and a half (varies over time) that have Mac Pros and who will probably go ballistic if the Pros get discontinued like the XServe did.

They're nice machines, but I can't imagine supporting the 600 other folks in my unit via Apple hardware.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:43 PM   #32
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They're nice machines, but I can't imagine supporting the 600 other folks in my unit via Apple hardware.
It's pretty easy. Win servers/ OS X clients. Get good solid patch versions and that setup will run for years. Just have to have users who can deal with stuff manually. Win users are collectively the most illiterate users cause everything is done for them. Where's my N: drive? Hilarious.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:50 PM   #33
Knara
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It's pretty easy. Win servers/ OS X clients. Get good solid patch versions and that setup will run for years. Just have to have users who can deal with stuff manually. Win users are collectively the most illiterate users cause everything is done for them. Where's my N: drive? Hilarious.
I don't really care about your religious opinions on the matter.

I can maintain all my warranty issues without calling in outside vendors with Dell, and there's no amount of money that could convince me to go through the nightmare of replacing the corporate standard Windows desktop with OS X for hundreds of users.

Not to mention having to go to who knows what sort of solution for remote assistance, inventory management (software and hardware), re-buying software, retraining all users not only on hardware but on software, ensuring that in-house apps work on OS X.

Corporate IT has a lot more moving parts than you seem to think.
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:58 PM   #34
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It's pretty easy. Win servers/ OS X clients. Get good solid patch versions and that setup will run for years. Just have to have users who can deal with stuff manually. Win users are collectively the most illiterate users cause everything is done for them. Where's my N: drive? Hilarious.
You know derbothaus I think you just paid M$ a nice compliment. It just works?
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Old May 1, 2012, 04:58 PM   #35
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Reasons Macs make a good corporate client - OS X.

OS X has some issues with Active Directory, but having worked places with mixed clients... Macs were in the majority, yet the Windows machines were taking up a majority of the support time. Windows is just much more brittle than OS X is.

It was so bad that new orders came down... no PCs could be purchased, and in the case where something required Windows, we'd give you a Boot Camped Mac just so we could image OS X if your machine proved to be too much trouble.
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Old May 1, 2012, 05:05 PM   #36
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I've seen rumors get posted that I know are pretty true that never come to pass.
Sounds like quantum computing
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Old May 1, 2012, 05:16 PM   #37
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Sounds like quantum computing
More like Apple has a lot of projects/decisions, and they don't all happen. Sometimes they realize they were a stupid idea before they make it to market.

Edit: I've heard a lot of stories like this one (the restaurant part):
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...le-steve-jobs/
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Old May 1, 2012, 05:40 PM   #38
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EXACTLY! A lot of talk over on the iMac forum is leaning towards Apple's shift toward iOS and the desktop being a relic of a previous computing age. But seriously, X-Code on an iPad? No thank you. For quite a ways into the forseeable future, I can't imagine anything but a desktop computer being used for iOS app creation, to feed the iToy consumers out there!
This is the kind of talk that is really galling to me, especially coming from Apple.

All of this talk of serous computing as if it's "going out of style."

Yep, all that is important is having my tv shows and movies everywheeeeerreeeee! Do not need to be productive. Do not need tools, no sir. The future lies in everyone pecking at iPhones and iPads, and doing zero work.
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:10 PM   #39
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To be fair, Apple has never talked about XCode on an iPad. The only people who are talking about XCode on the iPad are people who are paranoid about Apple talking about XCode on the iPad. It's a self fulfilling thing. Suddenly everyone is talking about XCode on the iPad because everyone is talking about it.

Someday, there is will probably be XCode on iPad. But for now, I haven't heard anything to imply Apple is looking at moving developers away from the Mac in the near future.

The only people who are talking about serious computing going out of style are you guys.
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:13 PM   #40
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Enjoy that iOS OS. Hopefully you don't have to boot it with a credit card.
You mean like windows 8 that is trying to pass off a tablet OS for a desktop one? Funnily Apple is the one taking the right path by keeping their mobile and desktop OS seperate but also at the same time integrating features on both for a better user experience.

You just sound bitter at Apple. I don't know why you don't just move to windows if you hate OSX?
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Old May 1, 2012, 07:24 PM   #41
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Ugh. And on the other hand people that believe iOS apps will remain single window are also similarly misguided. I hate to see what they would have said about the original Mac which could also only run one app at a time.
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Old May 1, 2012, 10:53 PM   #42
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Well, Apple does sell workstations?

And no, Mac OS X will NEVER be licensed out again to 3rd parties. Been there done that, it nearly killed Apple.
You might be right about the licensing but back then Apple licensed the Mac OS ROMS to third parties out of desperation. Incompetent management was killing Apple. The clones were just exacerbating Apple's problems.
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Old May 1, 2012, 11:18 PM   #43
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The only way to make real money selling workstations is to sell a lot of them. And even still, you're looking at paper thin margins and no growth potential, which HP makes up for with a robust services arm.

Apple's not about low margin, hard-scrabble sales. They're about creating new markets and new ideas and owning them for as long as they can, operating more like a drug company than a tech company. If they move deeper into the enterprise, it'll be due to opening some new niche, same as the Apple II did with Visicalc in the 70s and 80s. They might have started by buying up Square and Bump, integrating them with the pay-by-iphone system and packaging the unique business model of the Apple Store as a one stop wifi point-of-sale and inventory management appliance.

But there's no way they'd get a 30% margin on that. So why put people on the task?
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Old May 2, 2012, 08:57 AM   #44
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You might be right about the licensing but back then Apple licensed the Mac OS ROMS to third parties out of desperation. Incompetent management was killing Apple. The clones were just exacerbating Apple's problems.
Yeah, well, I didn't mean they licensed out Mac OS X (as it clearly did not exist back then) but that they had licensed out the right to make clones (as these HP machines would be).
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Old May 2, 2012, 11:56 AM   #45
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The only way to make real money selling workstations is to sell a lot of them. And even still, you're looking at paper thin margins and no growth potential, which HP makes up for with a robust services arm.

Apple's not about low margin, hard-scrabble sales. They're about creating new markets and new ideas and owning them for as long as they can, operating more like a drug company than a tech company. If they move deeper into the enterprise, it'll be due to opening some new niche, same as the Apple II did with Visicalc in the 70s and 80s. They might have started by buying up Square and Bump, integrating them with the pay-by-iphone system and packaging the unique business model of the Apple Store as a one stop wifi point-of-sale and inventory management appliance.

But there's no way they'd get a 30% margin on that. So why put people on the task?
To be fair, Apple has workstation software (Mac OS X Server, XGrid, and FCPX.) FCPX is going through a resurgence, but Mac OS X Server is... not...
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Old May 2, 2012, 12:10 PM   #46
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You mean like windows 8 that is trying to pass off a tablet OS for a desktop one? Funnily Apple is the one taking the right path by keeping their mobile and desktop OS seperate but also at the same time integrating features on both for a better user experience.

You just sound bitter at Apple. I don't know why you don't just move to windows if you hate OSX?
Like any long term relationship it is not so black and white. Windows is much worse.

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Originally Posted by Knara View Post
I don't really care about your religious opinions on the matter.

I can maintain all my warranty issues without calling in outside vendors with Dell, and there's no amount of money that could convince me to go through the nightmare of replacing the corporate standard Windows desktop with OS X for hundreds of users.

Not to mention having to go to who knows what sort of solution for remote assistance, inventory management (software and hardware), re-buying software, retraining all users not only on hardware but on software, ensuring that in-house apps work on OS X.

Corporate IT has a lot more moving parts than you seem to think.
You are either very green or english is not your 1st language as nuance has been entirely lost. But it is good you added religion for some unknown reason. All that you listed can be be done with Apple HW/ SW. So please stop with the lecture as I am already very successful at it.
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Old May 2, 2012, 12:25 PM   #47
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Honestly, I think it wouldn't be all that bad an idea for Apple to make an effort to get a toehold in the business world. If I was CEO for the day, I would probably spin off the MacBook Pro, and Mac Pro lines into a seperate department, and let them loose on the IT market.

Call it the Macintosh Pro Line: A 13", 15", and 17" Laptop - speced out to the top, a Mac Pro, agian, 3 versions with the very top end stuff, and perhaps even a stab at the server side as well. Instead of lion, and all its iOS bells and whistles, a nice streamlined OSX Pro instead. All in one dpeartment, with the sole focus of making the most powerfull and reliable system top to bottom. Sure, can't compete on price, but being able to start up a new office from one vendor, top to bottom, and know that everything will just work? Yes please. Heck, knock it down to two models of each if you have to, but still and all...

Sure, its wishlisting, but I'd push it if it was up to me.
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Old May 2, 2012, 12:49 PM   #48
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You are either very green or english is not your 1st language as nuance has been entirely lost. But it is good you added religion for some unknown reason. All that you listed can be be done with Apple HW/ SW. So please stop with the lecture as I am already very successful at it.
Dude, Apple has nothing even close to Microsoft's enterprise capabilities...
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Old May 2, 2012, 01:10 PM   #49
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Honestly, I think it wouldn't be all that bad an idea for Apple to make an effort to get a toehold in the business world. If I was CEO for the day, I would probably spin off the MacBook Pro, and Mac Pro lines into a seperate department, and let them loose on the IT market.

Call it the Macintosh Pro Line: A 13", 15", and 17" Laptop - speced out to the top, a Mac Pro, agian, 3 versions with the very top end stuff, and perhaps even a stab at the server side as well. Instead of lion, and all its iOS bells and whistles, a nice streamlined OSX Pro instead. All in one dpeartment, with the sole focus of making the most powerfull and reliable system top to bottom. Sure, can't compete on price, but being able to start up a new office from one vendor, top to bottom, and know that everything will just work? Yes please. Heck, knock it down to two models of each if you have to, but still and all...

Sure, its wishlisting, but I'd push it if it was up to me.
The problem is there is a limit on how many good Mac engineers are out there. It's a byproduct of how many years the Mac was in the ultra slim minority.

Where are you going to find extra skilled Objective-C/Cocoa/OS X programmers to write more drivers and pro apps? Sure, due to the iPhone there are a lot more Cocoa engineers out there. But those are very green engineers, with only a few years experience.

That's the problem with the whole "Just throw more at it!" approach. The number of skilled OS X engineers has not really grown, yet the number of Apple products and software has.
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Old May 2, 2012, 01:26 PM   #50
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The problem is there is a limit on how many good Mac engineers are out there. It's a byproduct of how many years the Mac was in the ultra slim minority.

Where are you going to find extra skilled Objective-C/Cocoa/OS X programmers to write more drivers and pro apps? Sure, due to the iPhone there are a lot more Cocoa engineers out there. But those are very green engineers, with only a few years experience.

That's the problem with the whole "Just throw more at it!" approach. The number of skilled OS X engineers has not really grown, yet the number of Apple products and software has.
No doubt: This is far from an overnight shake and bake operation, it would be at least a 2 year shift. And while I didn't think about the coders, I think it could be addressed well enough to get started within that time frame - provided they are building off of pre existing code as a base.
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