Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old May 3, 2012, 11:45 AM   #51
marksman
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie Num Nums View Post
When you have a 30%-45% margin profits are easy to make.
You have solved the rubiks cube of business.
marksman is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 11:46 AM   #52
The Mercurian
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMay View Post
Android isn't making Google very much (see the documents in the Oracle/Google patent trial) and iOS bring about 2/3 of the mobile profits for Google.

Google would have been better off not buying Moto (which they actually haven't yet) and not having burned bridges with Apple.
I've already addressed this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mercurian View Post
Agreed. But android isn't supposed to be a money spinner, much as google search website is free. But its gets you into the Google sphere and they make money on your data. Totally different model to Apple.
People are forgetting here. Google are fundamentally a data mining company. Not a mobile phone company and certainly not a hardware manufacturer. The function of android is to extend their data capturing abilities. Not to make money directly itself.
The Mercurian is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 11:49 AM   #53
Fraaaa
macrumors 65816
 
Fraaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman240 View Post
So whats a 5 way split of 1%....
[Apple Market Share Goal for the iPhone Back in 2007]
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1percent.png
Views:	23
Size:	241.0 KB
ID:	338372  
__________________
MacBook Air & iPhone4S
The Next Generation of MacBooks is Here!
Fraaaa is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 11:49 AM   #54
nick_elt
macrumors 68000
 
nick_elt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by QCassidy352 View Post
I don't agree with that. I think apple pushes itself. If they have a good innovation, they don't wait for the competition to catch up. And if they don't, they don't implement something half assed just because someone else has it (look at blu-ray and USB 3 on the Mac side).
How is blu ray and usb3 half assed? I dont want bluray on my next macbook but usb3 would be nice!
nick_elt is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 11:54 AM   #55
Fraaaa
macrumors 65816
 
Fraaaa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
I can understand a little bit what ur saying, but how is blu ray and usb3 half assed? I dont want bluray on my next macbook but usb3 would be nice!
As far as Apple has claimed they were waiting for Intel to have USB3 integrated in their chip or something like that so they didn't have to use a third party controller + I supposed they were keeping space for Thunderbolt both physically on the board and on the marketing level. If Ivy Bridge has USB3 native support it would be on the next Mac.
__________________
MacBook Air & iPhone4S
The Next Generation of MacBooks is Here!
Fraaaa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 11:59 AM   #56
Rodimus Prime
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMay View Post
Android isn't making Google very much (see the documents in the Oracle/Google patent trial) and iOS bring about 2/3 of the mobile profits for Google.

Google would have been better off not buying Moto (which they actually haven't yet) and not having burned bridges with Apple.
You should look deeper into it. Google was seeing the signs that mobile web was the future and it was pretty signs were their that Apple was thinking about heading into that market and MS already was their.
Neither of those 2 companies should be trusted at all. They both have a long history of backstabbing former allias. Apple much more so than MS.

These means they had to make damn sure that those 2 players did not dictate the future of mobile web development and the HTML5. Apple is making a mess of HTML5 trying to push fair amount of extra crap in their that does not belong.

Either way these means Google needed something to make sure that the future of the web did not block them out and Google had to make sure they had a huge say in how the development of mobile web went. In many ways it worked out much better for us all that they did this. Forces web developers to be more standard compliant in mobile web site design and not doing iOS designing only. Also limited both MS and Apple power in controlling things and locking out the open source communities.
Rodimus Prime is offline   -2 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:00 PM   #57
TMay
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post

Considering that others would have cheaper (or non-existent) royalty fees, and often make more phones, I actually don't think Apple has much of a manufacturing cost advantage. I think it's that Apple can command a higher premium right now. The question is, for how long?
Others make more phones, but also more varieties.

Apple is gaining production scale by eliminating variations (albeit there are still variations for carriers and flash memory) and running the production for what looks like to be three years for three generations of iPhone.

You have to believe that three years of production on a single generation gets you great efficiency and reliability, not to mention lowest cost components. All of which add to the profit margin.

This is all baked in, and Samsung will as well start paring back models once they have been firmly established as the volume Android manufacturer.

MMI is done unless Google gives them an exclusive nexus build. But that would create unhappiness with the OEM's.


Either way, its a race to commoditization for Android OEM"s, and little profit for all but Samsung.
TMay is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:03 PM   #58
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Some may be thinking that achieving 30-45% margins on products that are better made and more functional than the competition yet still cost about the same is “easy.”

Tim Cook would disagree So would all those other companies.
And Apple's iPhone margins are a lot higher than 30-45%! Their company-wide margins were 45% in the latest quarter. Mac margins were always in the 30% range. iTunes Store margins are considerably under 30%. Leaving the iPhone and iPad as the significant revenue drivers with margins over the company average.
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:16 PM   #59
Rodimus Prime
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
And Apple's iPhone margins are a lot higher than 30-45%! Their company-wide margins were 45% in the latest quarter. Mac margins were always in the 30% range. iTunes Store margins are considerably under 30%. Leaving the iPhone and iPad as the significant revenue drivers with margins over the company average.
When I see the break down of where Apple profits are coming from they seem to have way to many eggs on the iPhone. That is what over 50% of their profit.
Rodimus Prime is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:18 PM   #60
reedmartin
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
When I see the break down of where Apple profits are coming from they seem to have way to many eggs on the iPhone. That is what over 50% of their profit.
So?
reedmartin is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:33 PM   #61
LagunaSol
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Google makes more money from ios than android. For how many android phones are sold its not a big money spinner at all in its current form
It's time for Apple to create their own search engine. Why allow Google to profit from their platform while simultaneously stabbing them in the back? It makes no sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
but Samsung boosted its share from 16% to 26% to shut out nearly all other vendors.
Eventually Samsung will tire of being the preeminent ad platform for Google and fork their own version of Android with their own advertising stream, removing Google from the equation (see: Amazon Fire). What happens to Google when the other hardware makers can't make any money servicing Google's data-collection needs?
LagunaSol is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:34 PM   #62
oscarmacca
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Image


Asymco's Horace Dediu has released his data on operating profits among the eight top mobile phone vendors for the first quarter of 2012, finding that Apple and Samsung together now hold 99% of the profits with Apple representing the lion's share at 73%. Apple's share was down slightly from 75% in the previous quarter, but Samsung boosted its share from 16% to 26% to shut out nearly all other vendors.

Image


Among the other six vendors, only HTC managed to eke out a profit, taking 1% of the total industry profits. Research in Motion, LG, Sony Ericsson, Motorola, and Nokia each failed to turn a profit on their handset businesses.

Image


The rise of Apple and Samsung at the expense of all of the other major vendors comes as the mobile phone market continues to expand and more expensive smartphones make up an increasing percentage of overall mobile phone sales. Consequently, Apple and Samsung share growth is coming even as the total pool of profits is surging. Over the past two years, profits taken by these top eight vendors has risen from $5.3 billion to $14.4 billion, driven in large part by carrier subsidies worth hundreds of dollars on each of the growing number of smartphones sold.

Article Link: Apple and Samsung Claim 99% of Profits Among Top Mobile Phone Vendors
Would it be asking too much to return to more conventional graphing please?
oscarmacca is offline   -1 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:36 PM   #63
wikus
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Planet earth.
Looks like a timeline of Apple Tax.
wikus is offline   -4 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:39 PM   #64
ChazUK
macrumors 603
 
ChazUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Essex (UK)
Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
It's time for Apple to create their own search engine. Why allow Google to profit from their platform while simultaneously stabbing them in the back? It makes no sense.
Wouldn't Apple be far better off sorting out iAds to hit at Google more? With the way so much content is going towards dedicated apps, if Apple ever cut Google out of that on iOS it would be quite a pain for Google.
__________________
Windows 8 Desktop | HP Chromebook 11 | Moto G GPE | LG G Watch | iPhone 4s | iPad Mini Retina | Asus MemoPad ME176C
ChazUK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:40 PM   #65
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
It's really $9.5 billion, since it includes getting $3 billion in MMI cash.

If they got it just for MMI's 24,000 patents, that's about $400K per patent. Some of those patents are getting FRAND payments to the tune of 2.25% of phones made around the world.

Note that Apple paid $2.6 billion towards the deal for 6,000 Nortel patents, or about $430K per patent.

The difference is, Google also got a settop box and phone manufacturer to play with, along with the patents. They could either dump or sell those parts, keep the patents, and come out looking good.
Looking good? Really? How much do you think that Google is going to get for a "settop box and phone manufacturer" without any patents that is losing money every quarter? It's going to take a long time for the couple hundred million in revenue that Google made last year from Android to produce enough profit to offset a multi-billion dollar purchase of MMI patents.

The only thing that would have Google looking good in this acquisition is if MMI is turned around into a significant profit maker.
BaldiMac is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:45 PM   #66
BC2009
macrumors 68000
 
BC2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
If Apple can capture 70+% of the profits with 8% of the overall mobile phone market, then imagine what they can do as more mobile phones convert to smartphones and they move into the 15 to 20% range of the mobile phone market.

Their profits figure to triple over the next two years if they only capture 20% of the overall mobile phone market share and they just manage 40% of the tablet market which is growing at an incredible clip at the expense of the PC industry. Those market-share numbers are very very conservative considering Apple currently owns over 70% of the tablet market, and they constitute at least 40% (if not 60%) of all smartphone sales on every carrier where they are available (with many carriers still left untapped).

As an AAPL investor I am loving this. Even if their P/E ratio stays low at 15 or 16, at triple the profits we are looking at $1500 to $1800 per share in two years. I've never seen a company in a better position to capitalize on market opportunities than Apple.
BC2009 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:46 PM   #67
blackburn
macrumors 6502a
 
blackburn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where Judas lost it's boots.
Lately all the rage seems to be samsung android phones. iPhones are too expensive for most folks around here. Nokia is almost gone, Sony barely moving and rim is another sinking ship. Nokia had a giant publicity surge but it faded out fast.

Most of the sales person I spoke to recommended either samsung or apple, since they say they are having many problems with the other brands (mainly software).
__________________
Lenovo ThinkPad + Nexus 7 (2nd Gen)

Last edited by blackburn; May 3, 2012 at 12:58 PM.
blackburn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:47 PM   #68
reedmartin
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
If Apple can capture 70+% of the profits with 8% of the overall mobile phone market, then imagine what they can do as more mobile phones convert to smartphones and they move into the 15 to 20% range of the mobile phone market.

Their profits figure to triple over the next two years if they only capture 20% of the overall mobile phone market share and they just manage 40% of the tablet market which is growing at an incredible clip at the expense of the PC industry. Those market-share numbers are very very conservative considering Apple currently owns over 70% of the tablet market, and they constitute at least 40% (if not 60%) of all smartphone sales on every carrier where they are available (with many carriers still left untapped).

As an AAPL investor I am loving this. Even if their P/E ratio stays low at 15 or 16, at triple the profits we are looking at $1500 to $1800 per share in two years. I've never seen a company in a better position to capitalize on market opportunities than Apple.
Ditto, I'm so glad i got in when i did. Apple is going places, and the direction is up. never had so much success in stocks like i did when i bought Apple
reedmartin is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:52 PM   #69
BaldiMac
macrumors 604
 
BaldiMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
When I see the break down of where Apple profits are coming from they seem to have way to many eggs on the iPhone. That is what over 50% of their profit.
"iPhone and related products and services" is about 58% of their revenue, so it would be an even higher percentage of their profits. (iPod was around the same percentage in 2006.)
BaldiMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:56 PM   #70
belsokar
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
So I have to ask,...and I really don't know, I'm no business person...but I'm wondering...it seems like the initial years of new platform/device manufacturing should be some of the more profitable ones...after recouping R&D costs, it seems like there would be a sweet spot where profits would be at their best (although this doesn't seem to be the case for Apple)...and yet, most android phone manufacturers are not making a profit...it seems like this race to the bottom in terms of android device prices has made it extremely difficult for most android manufacturers to make money...so my question becomes, where does the incentive come from in the future to improve this platform? If I'm HTC, and I can't turn a profit anytime in the next few years, I would think that as a business I would start reducing my investment in that technology...Android as an adopted platform seems to be doing very well (better than Apple when not considering profits by manufacturers), but if manufacturers lose incentive to improve the hardware down the road, it seems like that may turn the table back in favor of Apple or another platform....
belsokar is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 12:57 PM   #71
gotluck
macrumors 68040
 
gotluck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: East Central Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by LagunaSol View Post
It's time for Apple to create their own search engine. Why allow Google to profit from their platform while simultaneously stabbing them in the back? It makes no sense.
Fair enough, but Apple is not innocent either. They all stab eachother in the back.
__________________
iPad Air LTE 7.1.2 JB (T-Mobile) - GS 4 Google Edition 4.4.4 ART (AT&T) - Windows 7 PC's - iPhone 4 6.1 JB
gotluck is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 01:04 PM   #72
MacinDoc
macrumors 68020
 
MacinDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Great White North
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
When I see the break down of where Apple profits are coming from they seem to have way to many eggs on the iPhone. That is what over 50% of their profit.
Given that there is literally no other product in the world that is comparable to the iPhone in profit, I'm not sure what you are suggesting Apple should do about this. The company has not put "too many eggs on the iPhone", as it has a wide range of other products. The iPhone just happens to be the golden egg, the likes of which don't exist anywhere else in the retail world.
__________________
"...because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
MacinDoc is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 01:05 PM   #73
kdarling
macrumors G4
 
kdarling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Device engineer 30+ yrs, touchscreens 23+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldiMac View Post
Looking good? Really? How much do you think that Google is going to get for a "settop box and phone manufacturer" without any patents that is losing money every quarter?
The settop box side makes money.

The phone side would probably make money if they dropped non-smartphones, but it they sold it, any amount at all would be a winner; they'd still have paid less per patent.

How much has Apple gotten out of their Nortel investment?

As for Android, it's not meant to be a revenue stream to be depended upon. Its primary purpose is leverage against Apple and Microsoft's Bing.
kdarling is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 01:05 PM   #74
MacinDoc
macrumors 68020
 
MacinDoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: The Great White North
Quote:
Originally Posted by belsokar View Post
So I have to ask,...and I really don't know, I'm no business person...but I'm wondering...it seems like the initial years of new platform/device manufacturing should be some of the more profitable ones...after recouping R&D costs, it seems like there would be a sweet spot where profits would be at their best (although this doesn't seem to be the case for Apple)...and yet, most android phone manufacturers are not making a profit...it seems like this race to the bottom in terms of android device prices has made it extremely difficult for most android manufacturers to make money...so my question becomes, where does the incentive come from in the future to improve this platform? If I'm HTC, and I can't turn a profit anytime in the next few years, I would think that as a business I would start reducing my investment in that technology...Android as an adopted platform seems to be doing very well (better than Apple when not considering profits by manufacturers), but if manufacturers lose incentive to improve the hardware down the road, it seems like that may turn the table back in favor of Apple or another platform....
I think you are correct; this is currently the biggest threat to the Android platform, its rapid commoditization. And this is exactly the situation that Apple is trying to avoid.
__________________
"...because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do."
MacinDoc is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old May 3, 2012, 01:10 PM   #75
bushido
macrumors 601
 
bushido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: España y Germany
lol that Samsung Keynote right now. "it listens to what u say" sounds familiar huh
__________________
¡No hables a menos que puedas mejorar el silencio!
Don't judge me by my user name - I was young and stupid xD
bushido is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has anyone sold their phone to Top Dollar Mobile? JerryIII iPhone 3 Sep 27, 2013 10:45 AM
Key Claim of Apple's 'Rubber Banding' Patent Used Against Samsung Confirmed MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 124 Aug 24, 2013 11:18 AM
phones: Consumer Reports: Samsung Galaxy S4 is top phone ceva321 Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices 32 May 26, 2013 11:25 AM
Apple Overtakes Samsung to Become Largest Mobile Phone Vendor in U.S. MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 234 Feb 6, 2013 09:30 PM
Judge Koh Denies Juror Misconduct Claim in Samsung v. Apple MacRumors iOS Blog Discussion 93 Dec 19, 2012 09:06 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC