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Old May 2, 2012, 10:23 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mdntcallr View Post
Thanks for your advice all.

I know many people believe that corporate profits are the #1 objective, but i honestly remember the days when Apple made goods in the US, not merely designed and programmed them.
Sure they did. The American/Asian economies were different then. Apple was different then. Lots of other companies made their products in Silicon Valley then. Most of the tech companies that are headquartered there still used to have factories in the Valley. It's why the description Silicon was attached to the area and not "Designer" or "Programmer". Lots of things were different, not so long ago. Don't get me wrong... but all I'm saying is that things change. If you want to go back in history just a little bit, then manufactured goods should all be made on the East Coast. Before that, the UK. Centres of manufacturing change location all the time. It's just part of the pattern. Soon, it'll probably be S America, and perhaps Africa. At some point manufacturing - as we know it - will cease to exist and something else will take it's place. I'm sure there'll be a MR thread bemoaning the loss, as well.

Apple is just good at using the legal methods to avoid tax. And they should use them. It's not up to Apple to fix the tax code, it's yours (and by 'you' I am assuming you are an American citizen). If you don't like the tools that Apple has been given - then change the tools. The power is yours. Get out and vote, being the key. And not just you, but the half of the citizens who couldn't be bothered to get their butts out of the house.

Democracy is not about choosing the best person to lead, it's making sure they leave peacefully to make room for someone who will make a difference. Even if there is nobody running you think is good enough, it's important to vote somebody out of office so that the ones who can make a difference see that they have a chance to get elected.

My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. - Jack Layton
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Old May 2, 2012, 11:54 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by snberk103 View Post
I disagree strongly.

That wasn't a rant, it was a well-thought out explanation...

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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Old May 2, 2012, 01:24 PM   #28
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Unfortunately Americans take a lot of things for granted and aren't willing to work as much as the average Chinese worker, even when we don't have jobs.

When the welfare state collapses and we aren't number one anymore, while we rebuild and restructure our economy, maybe then jobs will be relocated back into the US.
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Old May 3, 2012, 01:57 AM   #29
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By that definition, Apple should share all its profits with its shareholders.
Wrong. Maximizing shareholder value does not mean Apple should share all its profits with shareholders. For example, let's say Apple had a sum of cash on hand and the choice was to either distribute to shareholders or use the cash to sign a long-term supply deal for iPad components that would give it a leg up over competitors. In this type of scenario, the latter is the better value for shareholders.

Again, using that idea, Apple should not be paying its top brass multi-million dollar bonuses, building an expensive spaceship campus, or giving away so many replacement items.
Wrong again. An argument an be made that multi-million dollar bonuses are necessary to keep the top brass around or else someone else might throw one of those multi-million dollar packages at them and poach them away, which would harm long-term shareholder value.

The reality is that stingy greed is not all that makes a company valuable. Compassion, customer care, developer pride, employee happiness and all sorts of other things including, yes, contributing to the containing community, state and nation, count as well.
Maximizing shareholder value is not greed.

Nor is it the job of the people in a city to shoulder extra tax burden as charity for Apple.
Who is forcing the city to give the tax break to Apple? Think of Apple as the seller and the city as the buyer. Apple is selling a product of value-jobs, prestige of a big company, etc. The city wants to buy the product. Let them pay the piper. Apple is not forcing the city to do anything. Apple is just selling to the highest bidder.
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Old May 4, 2012, 07:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by smithrh View Post
I disagree strongly.

That wasn't a rant, it was a well-thought out explanation...

But I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

In terms of this, I must go with your opinion, because all the others does not seems to match.
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Old May 14, 2012, 09:19 PM   #31
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Sorry, but maximizing shareholder value when there are major economic trends worldwide that are hurting larger economies doesn't hold much value to me.

Cheap manufacturing via indentured servitude type of labor, or in nations where personal freedom is non-existent is not a greater good.

Personally i appreciate the approach taken by Brazil which taxes targeted imported goods, thus making them cost way more. Hence Apple had an incentive to push to manufacture there.

Don't get me wrong, i am a capitalist, but i hardly think that apple getting their margins reduced from 47% to 44% on manufacturing costs will harm them in any way shape or form.
"Bite my Shiny Metal Ass!" Bender (Futurama)
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