Apple Stores to Sell Nest Thermostat

Ca$hflow · May 28, 2012

IJ Reilly said:
All thermostats use power continuously. It is supplied from the furnace/AC. It's 24v AC, I believe. Most of the programmable thermostats also come with a backup battery so that the program isn't lost every time the power is interrupted. That's the only reason it needs to have a battery.

That's not true. Most thermostats only draw their power from internal alkaline batteries. I know this because I had to run a common line from my furnace to my nest thermostat in order to energize it. My gas furnace runs on a 24v system.

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iHateMacs said:
What use is this? I have Satchwell thermostats on my walls that switch the full mains current to my heaters.

This Nest thing apparently cannot replace those. It only switches low voltage.

Currently Nest only supports 24v systems. In the future they will probably release another line of 120v and 240v systems. Looking forward to one with the ability to hook up a Humidifier.

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IJ Reilly said:
Apparently. I'd expect any furnace system installed in the last 30 years to have a digital thermostat, if a simple one, and since furnace systems don't last much longer than 30 years that the old mechanical types would be far more scarce. I've actually got one of those on the wall in my house but it's no longer in service. Anyhow the bottom line is, installing a Nest to replace another digital thermostat should not require running another line to the furnace. Isn't that right?

It depends on the type of furnace. If the furnace has a logic board (mid to high efficiency) then no, you don't need to run a line. In my case I have a conventional (low efficiency) and need to run a common line.

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Grimace said:
This is what my fancy building (constructed in 2003) has for a thermostat. It looks like it is from the 1970s!

I can't see any way that I can use a smart thermostat in my place, and I've been eyeing Nest and others for a while. Le sigh...

Why can't you run a smart thermostat like the nest in your place? I replaced my thermostat from the 1950's with a nest.

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jbzoom said:
Presumably Apple is aiming to help Nest resist Honeywell's dubious anti-competitive lawsuit.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/12/2942861/nest-answers-patent-lawsuit-honeywell-troll

Here's the full list of Honeywell's patents Nest thinks are invalid or irrelevant, and why:

#7,584,899, which covers a rotating ring around a central display. Nest says this was "implemented years earlier by engineers at Volkswagen," who filed for a European patent.
#6,975,958, which covers controlling a thermostat through the internet. Nest says this was already covered by now-expired patent #4,657,179, which Honeywell first filed for in 1984 a patent it did not disclose to the Patent Office.
#7,476,988, which covers "power-stealing" to charge the thermostat's battery from the control wires. Nest says Honeywell already patented the idea ten years prior in patent #5,736,795 and once again didn't tell the Patent Office.
#7,159,790, which covers a rotating selector with an offset rotation axis. You guessed it: Nest says Honeywell filed for exactly the same thing nearly 20 years prior, resulting in patent #4,405,080, a patent Honeywell didn't disclose to the Patent Office.
#7,634,504, which is Honeywell's wild patent for using natural language prompts to program a thermostat. Nest says this is a retread of patent #5,065,813, which was filed 15 years earlier and not shown to the PTO by Honeywell.
#7,142,948, which covers displaying the time it'll take to reach a certain temperature. Nest says that was already covered by patent #6,286,764 and #5,767,488 patents that were again not disclosed to the PTO.
#7,159,789, which covers a thermostat with a rotatable selector dial partially hidden behind a non-moving cover. At this point you should be ready for this: Nest claims this was already covered by patent #5,224,649, which Honeywell did not disclose to the PTO.

I hope Nest turns the controls industry on it's head. There is so many overprices beige boxes out on the market that are pieces of junk.

rsocal · May 28, 2012

I remember reading about the Nest not to long ago and I can't wait to get one.
Even better it's an Apple like product and that I like, I'm a big fan of Apple products and Apple itself. This will fit in great with all my Apple products.
I have the typical new style digital Thermostat that's programmed but I live in So.Cal. and I still find myself using it more like an on off switch. So I really think the learn feature will be very cool my house.

Kimbie · May 28, 2012

So looking at the blurb, this is only really a US thing?

Ca$hflow · May 28, 2012

Kimbie said:
So looking at the blurb, this is only really a US thing?

It works here fine in Canada.

Roller · May 28, 2012

testcard said:
I'll wait for Nest 2 with the Retina display and Siri voice control.

I assume that you were kidding, but if Apple let's Siri interact with the Nest app in iOS 6, then you could tell your iPhone to adjust the temperature.

Roller · May 28, 2012

lincolntran said:
I'm buying it tomorrow at Lowe's. I just hope they're still in stock.

You may already have gone to Lowe's, but I found out yesterday that not all their stores carry the Nest. The people at the Lowe's store here had never even heard of the Nest, so I ordered one online.

RoadCyclistID · May 28, 2012

Roller said:
You may already have gone to Lowe's, but I found out yesterday that not all their stores carry the Nest. The people at the Lowe's store here had never even heard of the Nest, so I ordered one online.

Same here.... Looking forward to it arriving on Thursday.. Can't believe that I am excited about a thermostat!

sweetbrat · May 28, 2012

tacomahunter said:
Same here.... Looking forward to it arriving on Thursday.. Can't believe that I am excited about a thermostat!

Was able to get one at my local Lowe's. For those that are looking for one, the Lowe's website should be able to tell you if your local store has them or not. Took us less than a half hour to install it, and it's been working great so far. I'm very interested to see how it works in the long run, but it's definitely the most interesting thermostat I've ever used.

2807 · May 28, 2012

I got one when they were first announced, been using it for nearly 5 months.

It is awesome! The phone app works great. I use it all the time just to check the temp in the house while Im away. I bought a few as gifts. Great for our vacation rental house in the desert. Now, we can check the a/c usage, and we can turn it on hours before we show up... just by using the iPhone!

The learning feature is a dud for me. I turned it off and just set the schedule. IT IS SO EASY TO USE! The website (or app) is so simple... just drag the daily icon up/down for start time and temp...

It is so simple and awesome and I am happy that the Apple Store will get behind it.

sanook997 · May 29, 2012

Sure hope this helps in the battle against HON

Honeywell is going after Nest for patent violations

. HON has nothing so innovative nor will they.....the patents complaints I saw were very basic and should allow for acceptable use by others.

I've been there with HON before on other products, I hope Apple assists them to clean HON's clock on this one!

I don't mind when the big guys go after each other but I really dislike it when a new innovative company is stepped on by the likes of Honeywell

Chupa Chupa · May 29, 2012

sanook997 said:
Honeywell is going after Nest for patent violations. HON has nothing so innovative nor will they.....the patents complaints I saw were very basic and should allow for acceptable use by others.

I've been there with HON before on other products, I hope Apple assists them to clean HON's clock on this one!

I don't mind when the big guys go after each other but I really dislike it when a new innovative company is stepped on by the likes of Honeywell

The smartest thing HON could do is to enter into an exclusive distribution agreement with Nest and drop the suit. Then co-brand the Nest or let HON sell it's own model(s). This would keep the Nest away from other thermostat and HVAC manufacturers and give HON something more cutting edge than its 1999 era line.

The advantage to Nest, of course, is that HON distributes a ton more thermostats via big box and service companies than Nest can ever hope and it doesn't have to defend an expensive suit. It also frees up capital for Nest to develop other products. Nest can't survive as a one trick pony even if it wins.

Roller · May 29, 2012

My own justification/rationalization for getting a Nest is that it'll pay for itself in energy savings over time. That remains to be seen. But I'll admit that I'm also drawn in by the design and the prospect of having a thermostat that's fun to use.

Kabeyun · May 29, 2012

Hacking the Nest

Can't wait to read about someone who returns home after a winter weekend away, only to discover his house is 27 degrees and his cat is dead. Anonymous creative hacker moves on.

Yeah, my mind can drift negative every once in a while.

Ca$hflow · May 29, 2012

Chupa Chupa said:
The smartest thing HON could do is to enter into an exclusive distribution agreement with Nest and drop the suit. Then co-brand the Nest or let HON sell it's own model(s). This would keep the Nest away from other thermostat and HVAC manufacturers and give HON something more cutting edge than its 1999 era line.

The advantage to Nest, of course, is that HON distributes a ton more thermostats via big box and service companies than Nest can ever hope and it doesn't have to defend an expensive suit. It also frees up capital for Nest to develop other products. Nest can't survive as a one trick pony even if it wins.

I don't think tony would go for that. It would harm nest in the long run. I think nest will expand its product line for sure. The controls industry is huge and run only by a few companies. Honeywell, white-Rogers, etc.

I see Nest as Apple back in 2000 entering the mp3 market with the iPod. I think nest will dominate the residential market. Commercial and industrial, not so much.

wovel · May 29, 2012

iHateMacs said:
What use is this? I have Satchwell thermostats on my walls that switch the full mains current to my heaters.

This Nest thing apparently cannot replace those. It only switches low voltage.

Why would you want to do that instead of having the thermostat control a relay like the rest of the world? You have a very strange system.

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IJ Reilly said:
I don't see why it would need an extra wire. The 24v should be supplied continuously to the thermostat no matter what kind of thermostat you have, unless perhaps if it's mechanical.

Your correct.

PracticalMac · May 29, 2012

No-Go for me unless they have Ethernet hook up.

Although it could change, but for now I can't use Wi-Fi.

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Kabeyun said:
Can't wait to read about someone who returns home after a winter weekend away, only to discover his house is 27 degrees and his cat is dead. Anonymous creative hacker moves on.

Yeah, my mind can drift negative every once in a while.

One of reasons I need wired version.

EDIT:
Does HON have a patent that prevents NEST from direct Ethernet?

alexroet · May 29, 2012

nest

My god, what is the obsession with the cost here?!
Yes, they are expensive.
No, they probably will not pay for themselves in energy savings.
But since when do we only buy things that pay for themselves?! My iphone(s) and ipad(s) sure as hell haven't paid for themselves.

But, they are superior products, and I'm willing to pay the difference.

Just like you can use a cheapo/free thermostat to save money, you can use a cheap/free phone to save money.

If you don't think they're worth the price, then don't buy them...

If you do- enjoy!

I've had 2 since christmas, and I love them. I have saved some money on my energy bills, but for me I just like that they look great and are easy to use, with a lot of extra features.

IJ Reilly · May 29, 2012

alexroet said:
My god, what is the obsession with the cost here?!
Yes, they are expensive.
No, they probably will not pay for themselves in energy savings.
But since when do we only buy things that pay for themselves?! My iphone(s) and ipad(s) sure as hell haven't paid for themselves.

But, they are superior products, and I'm willing to pay the difference.

Just like you can use a cheapo/free thermostat to save money, you can use a cheap/free phone to save money.

If you don't think they're worth the price, then don't buy them...

If you do- enjoy!

I've had 2 since christmas, and I love them. I have saved some money on my energy bills, but for me I just like that they look great and are easy to use, with a lot of extra features.

Seems to me you might be mixing up a couple different types of calculations. Technology products can provide a cost benefit by allowing you to do things more easily, quickly or conveniently. Or, perhaps, allowing you to do something that you could not do previously. The actual cost-benefit can be difficult to calculate, but you generally know by other means when you are getting one. The claim for the Nest is somewhat different. They say that you can actually recoup the cost of the product with reduced energy use. It's perfectly reasonable to question that assertion. For those who can already program their digital thermostat, I think that payoff is of dubious likelihood. Nest seems to be saying that the real cost benefit is for those who find their thermostats to be too confusing to program properly and so are not gaining the benefit of setback temperatures, etc.

eyebex · May 29, 2012

No User-replacable Battery = Deal Killer

It's a simple as that.

lincolntran · May 29, 2012

alexroet said:
My god, what is the obsession with the cost here?!
Yes, they are expensive.
No, they probably will not pay for themselves in energy savings.
But since when do we only buy things that pay for themselves?! My iphone(s) and ipad(s) sure as hell haven't paid for themselves.

But, they are superior products, and I'm willing to pay the difference.

Just like you can use a cheapo/free thermostat to save money, you can use a cheap/free phone to save money.

If you don't think they're worth the price, then don't buy them...

If you do- enjoy!

I've had 2 since christmas, and I love them. I have saved some money on my energy bills, but for me I just like that they look great and are easy to use, with a lot of extra features.

- Agreed. I just bought and installed mine. I'm more happy with my thermostat than ever. Period. My happiness and time saving is more valuable than spending time trying to figure out those stupid thermostats and get frustrated over them.

IJ Reilly said:
Seems to me you might be mixing up a couple different types of calculations. Technology products can provide a cost benefit by allowing you to do things more easily, quickly or conveniently. Or, perhaps, allowing you to do something that you could not do previously. The actual cost-benefit can be difficult to calculate, but you generally know by other means when you are getting one. The claim for the Nest is somewhat different. They say that you can actually recoup the cost of the product with reduced energy use. It's perfectly reasonable to question that assertion. For those who can already program their digital thermostat, I think that payoff is of dubious likelihood. Nest seems to be saying that the real cost benefit is for those who find their thermostats to be too confusing to program properly and so are not gaining the benefit of setback temperatures, etc.

Cost? Spending time doing research and calculate on how much I can save over a freaking thermostat is not cost effective for me, personally. I made more than enough to pay for NEST in the time that I spent trying to figure out those dumb thermostats. So, the NEST paid for itself already.

HOWEVER, to each his own. If you're happy with what you have, than that's all you need.

3282868 · May 29, 2012

Incorporation with current HVAC

Just installed a new "Trane" HVAC and boiler in my home, including thermostat with humidifier and outside temp reading. Got $1500 back from gov't incentives last year - though it cost $10k, yet the SEER is great and I highly recommend "Trane" or "Rheem/Ruud" systems as the RoI is worth it, already seeing a difference.

Does this work in conjunction with your current system, or does it replace/over-ride it? Can you use more than one in a home?

ZipZap · May 29, 2012

Ive had a Nest since January.

I will tell you that my furnace runs better, BETTER! with Nest than it did with any other smart thermostat including the honeywell stuff.

This has been money well spent.

My only gripe is that I cannot prevent Nest from updating firmware. Much like iPhones, I do not like to be a beta tester for new firmware.

DakotaGuy · May 29, 2012

Kabeyun said:
Can't wait to read about someone who returns home after a winter weekend away, only to discover his house is 27 degrees and his cat is dead. Anonymous creative hacker moves on.

Yeah, my mind can drift negative every once in a while.

A cat wouldn't die if the house was 27 degrees, however split water pipes and a basement full of water would be a big problem.

Vege-Taco · May 29, 2012

Great Product

I had a thermostat that was on its last legs. The buttons weren't working right anymore, so I decided to try out a "Nest."

At $250 plus tax, it's quite a bill to swallow, but the product description and video clips were very compelling. Anyway, my wife and I are extremely please with our Nest, so much so that we bought three more, for a total of four. Now both our houses and my wife's office are outfitted. Being able to EASILY program the thermostats for automatic functioning is awesome. I'm not sold on the auto-learning feature, as our schedules at home aren't all that fixed. But for the office it works fine. We both love being able to adjust the thermostat from the couch or from the dinner table via our phones.

Anyway, we are happy customers, and highly recommend the Nest if you've got the cash.

Pros:

No Buttons
Easy-to-use dial interface
Looks great!
Auto-away feature
Set min and max values for temp - No need to switch between heat and cool.
Settable remotely via phone app - Two days into a 2-week vacation and remember the AC is still on? No problem!
Check your home temperature while away

Cons:

A bit pricey (but worth it)

Ca$hflow · May 29, 2012

bedifferent said:
Just installed a new "Trane" HVAC and boiler in my home, including thermostat with humidifier and outside temp reading. Got $1500 back from gov't incentives last year - though it cost $10k, yet the SEER is great and I highly recommend "Trane" or "Rheem/Ruud" systems as the RoI is worth it, already seeing a difference.

Does this work in conjunction with your current system, or does it replace/over-ride it? Can you use more than one in a home?

Specifically if your trane furnace is a modulating system which I think it is with that price tag, then it will not work as a modulating furnace. It will operate it as a two stage system. Nest does not have a modulating thermostat yet. Does your old thermostat run a humidifier or just report humidity level in your home? If your old thermostat runs your humidifier then nest will not run it as of yet. You'll have to install a humidistat in your cold air return duct until nest releases one if you choose to go with the nest. I think you would be better off waiting.

Curiously how long will it take to get your $10,000 back in savings on your upgraded system? I guessing a real long time.

Apple Stores to Sell Nest Thermostat

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