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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:04 PM   #1
mscriv
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[WW] General Game, Rules, and Strategy Discussion

Ok, the Mods shut down the actual game threads pretty quickly after they are completed, so here's a place we can use to actually discuss general gameplay, ideas, strategy, rules, and other stuff.

At the time of this posting the game just completed was Jav's anniversary game.

Taking into account all the games I've played in and the one I hosted I am definitely of the opinion that we need to stop all "after death" posting. There are arguments between dead players and alive ones, conversations about stuff non-game related, etc. etc.. As players improve and new strategies emerge we really need to preserve the integrity of the game by limiting these interruptions. Dead players continuing to post is distracting and damaging to play. You may not think you are giving away something, but you are. You may not think you are affecting the game, but by changing the pace or allowing a non participating player to post something random you affect game dynamics.

So, that's a point I wanted to make. What do you all think or what else do you think we need to discuss?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:11 PM   #2
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I just want to throw my hat into the ring for hosting the next game, if everyone is okay with that.

Also, I agree, mscriv. Maybe allow one non-influencing farewell post and nothing more.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:13 PM   #3
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One option I was throwing out with ravenvii and others on twitter. Everyone can PM everyone else, wolves don't know who each other are at start of game. Makes it more like a survivor type game with secret alliances.

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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:13 PM   #4
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I would disagree that the dead need to stop posting. I just think they may need to be more mindful of what they say. We also dont need any macbookproi5 type posts, but I dont think that will be an issue from here on out.

You maybe be changing the games flow, pace etc, but ive played in end are really boring because no one is posting. I'd rather keep it fun and interesting.

Also I think we need a set of rules we can copy and paste. The game can mod them as they see fit, but a generic outline with stuff that doesnt change much. I feel like we used to do that.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:16 PM   #5
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Agreed. I allowed after-death posting, because I saw it had subsided to levels people could accept. Yet there was still the occasional drama that can be avoided.

I move to ban all after-death posting. After all, dead in-game is dead. No one in real life speaks from the grave.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:19 PM   #6
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I don't mind the after-death posting at all, as long as the comments aren't about the in-game play.

It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. Part of the fun is continuing to follow along and even participate a little bit in some of the conversations.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:21 PM   #7
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my .02 cents.

i would say one farewall post as well.

i really get annoyed when their are 25+ posts off topic and if your still alive, you have to go thru each post to make sure you don't miss any clues.

for those of us that use tapatalk during gameplay, it sucks.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:28 PM   #8
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Allowing after-death posts inevitably leads to game related posts. It's happened in every game I've seen, so it does need to be outlawed.

Only other option I see is to give the dead a role. I don't know that there's a simple way to do it though.

Perhaps allow the dead to speak and say anything they'd like. They can even vote, but it doesn't impact the actual in-game vote. However, if their majority and the village's majority coincides, and the person lynched is a bad guy, one of them gets to come back to life (only once), such as a crowd-sourced Mystic ability. However, I don't think even this would work: you'd need to strengthen the baddies for this, it would be obvious what the motives of dead bad guys is, and good specials who die could potentially reveal vital information. It makes the good guys too strong and it too convoluted. But maybe there is some way to make it work.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by rick snagwell View Post
my .02 cents.

i would say one farewall post as well.

i really get annoyed when their are 25+ posts off topic and if your still alive, you have to go thru each post to make sure you don't miss any clues.

for those of us that use tapatalk during gameplay, it sucks.
but the "spam" dont always come from the dead. The two are not mutually related.

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Originally Posted by chrmjenkins View Post
Allowing after-death posts inevitably leads to game related posts. It's happened in every game I've seen, so it does need to be outlawed.
And BS. We've run lots of games without any issues. I would argue we didnt even have any issues this game. I removed my post as a curtesy, but the game was over at that point, as not only I pointed out.

If think it should be up to each game god to run it how they see fit.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by mscriv View Post
Taking into account all the games I've played in and the one I hosted I am definitely of the opinion that we need to stop all "after death" posting. There are arguments between dead players and alive ones, conversations about stuff non-game related, etc. etc.. As players improve and new strategies emerge we really need to preserve the integrity of the game by limiting these interruptions. Dead players continuing to post is distracting and damaging to play. You may not think you are giving away something, but you are. You may not think you are affecting the game, but by changing the pace or allowing a non participating player to post something random you affect game dynamics.
This is going to sound really whiny of me, but forbidding all "after death" posting would really, really ruin the experience for me. Being able to post non-inside information about the game is the only real reason I'm even interested in following a game to its conclusion once I've been eliminated.

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Originally Posted by Koodauw View Post
I would disagree that the dead need to stop posting. I just think they may need to be more mindful of what they say. We also dont need any macbookproi5 type posts, but I dont think that will be an issue from here on out.
This. The poster boy for inappropriate posting has been banned, I don't think it would be an issue in future games. However, if the mob agrees to make this a rule, so be it.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:35 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Koodauw View Post
And BS. We've run lots of games without any issues. I would argue we didnt even have any issues this game. I removed my post as a curtesy, but the game was over at that point, as not only I pointed out.
But it didn't necessarily have to be. And that's the point.

edit: People seem to be in favor of keeping after-death posts, so it seems there just needs to be strict enforcement of temporary bans from games for those who violate.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 05:35 PM   #12
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What if the dead could speak, and collectively revive one of "their own" after there were a specified number of dead. Of course, you couldn't be able to reveal your role while dead.

And, I feel that the goofiness of the dead are a great incentive to even still follow the games.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 06:04 PM   #13
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i disagree on a hard ban or a precise number of posts allowe, but players should be considerate and really post little. Most do.
what should be avoided is lengthy off-topic exchanges involving dead players.
overall, i don't think it's a major issue or something that needs to be discussed at length now.

moving to more interesting (to me) topics i think there are two major areas where the game has room for improvement

1. keeping some (legit) involvement for dead players
2. giving plain villagers a more involved role

to address this i propose the following:

1. zombies. when a regular player is lynched or attacked by wolves, instead of dying he becomes a zombie.
Zombies are not 'villagers' anymore, they form a new team that can win the game and beat both villagers and wolves.
there are multiple ways this can be tried.
One is that zombies keep voting in lynchings, and can be lynched or attacked by wolves. Once they are 'killed' for the second time, they are done for good, are destroyed and out of the game.
However, you don't need to waste a lynching to kill a zombie: any zombie with 3 votes (or a number to be decided, which may also be linked to number of players) is destroyed, regardless of the final result of the lynching (so for example in a single lynching you may have a player lynched - who becomes a zombie- and 2 zombies destroyed).
Zombies are not known for their bright minds, so they can vote, but cannot post game related analysis or comments: their regular posting rules are the same as for dead players, but their votes do count as everyone else's.

2. items. every player, regardless of their role, is randomly assigned a special 'item' at the beginning of the game.
Items are useful, but not game-changers, and are not comparable in quality to real 'specials'.
Basically it means that everyone has some (limited) special power, but not everyone has a special role (that's because you need plenty of simple villagers to 'hide' the specials). Specials and wolves also get the special item on top of their regular abilities.
One example of this items would be a one chance of being immune from any night activities (scanning or killing), a vote-blocker or a vote-doubler (to be used only once, publicly). The 'pool' of items is known at the beginning of the game, but not all items are necessarily used.
for example with 12 players you may have 15 items (3 hiding, 3 one-time night protection, 3 double votes, 3 vote blocks, 3 immunity from lynching). 12 are used and 3 remain unused. Specifics obviously need to be fleshed out and balanced.
i think it would give more interest to the game and add a lot of more unpredictability to the end-game, because a game that appears to be finished might not be and vice-versa
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Last edited by Don't panic; Jun 25, 2012 at 06:32 PM.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 06:08 PM   #14
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But it didn't necessarily have to be. And that's the point.

edit: People seem to be in favor of keeping after-death posts, so it seems there just needs to be strict enforcement of temporary bans from games for those who violate.
Let's not assume people are in favor of after death posts so soon, okay??? I would really like to see all after death posts end. Maybe one post and that's all. It was really a problem with MBPi5, who seemed to think these games were his own personal chat room. However, assuming we don't have another player like that that can't seem to understand what "occasional" means, then I would be all for dead posting.

----------

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Originally Posted by Tomorrow View Post

This. The poster boy for inappropriate posting has been banned, I don't think it would be an issue in future games. However, if the mob agrees to make this a rule, so be it.
Agreed, so maybe it isn't an issue as I said in the other post.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 07:53 PM   #15
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I honestly could say that I wouldn't play in these games if a ban on post-death chatter is made. I know that I haven't played in a while, but after being asked to play in this game I figured I'd keep playing as long as it was fun. Having a rule like that would sour the experience for me. There's enough moderation in these forums as it is.

Part of the fun of being involved in these games is getting to know the other players. In all the games I've played in, the chatter seems to self-regulate itself (unless there is someone who can't take a hint, but in that case, there is usually someone there to tell them to shut it).

I also look at it as part of the game. A way to distract the other players. A way to try to hide strategic or telling posts.

Obviously, it is not up to me, but that is my opinion on that.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:06 PM   #16
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I honestly could say that I wouldn't play in these games if a ban on post-death chatter is made. I know that I haven't played in a while, but after being asked to play in this game I figured I'd keep playing as long as it was fun. Having a rule like that would sour the experience for me. There's enough moderation in these forums as it is.

Part of the fun of being involved in these games is getting to know the other players. In all the games I've played in, the chatter seems to self-regulate itself (unless there is someone who can't take a hint, but in that case, there is usually someone there to tell them to shut it).

I also look at it as part of the game. A way to distract the other players. A way to try to hide strategic or telling posts.

Obviously, it is not up to me, but that is my opinion on that.
I agree. I love the social aspect of the game, and I would hate to be unable to interact with everyone once I'm dead. There are a few people I only get to chat with in these games, and it would be a shame for them to miss out on that.

For the most part, it's harmless - recently it just seems out of control because of MBP. Most of us definitely know what the line is, though.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:42 PM   #17
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Look back through the games. The active players are the first to die and, in the games where dead people didn't post, the games got very boring.

I propose that the GM determines if a dead person is posting inappropriately and can ban them from posting in the thread.

I'm ready for the next game with my new wolfish avatar .
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 08:45 PM   #18
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Count me among those that would like to see some kind of participation from dead players - ideally something very small and game-related, otherwise, the occasional cheering post or something like that isn't a big deal.

Actively posting players seem to get knocked off first, and it can get pretty quiet/boring near the end.

DP - your idea seems like a start, would the zombies be able to PM each other? Since they can't post game analysis or anything like that, I assume they'd discuss brain-eating strategy in secret?

Also I really think the item idea is a good one. Let me mull on that one and see if I have anything to add.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:21 PM   #19
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how much longer is that EM going for?
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:23 PM   #20
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how much longer is that EM going for?
Too long.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:24 PM   #21
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Too long.
You're telling me! I've been killed twice!
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:25 PM   #22
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You're telling me! I've been killed twice!
Ah, for that I'm terribly sorry. My Consigleri SS doesn't like to play nice with other women that are not invited into our humble home.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:26 PM   #23
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Ah, for that I'm terribly sorry. My Consigleri SS doesn't like to play nice with other women that are not invited into our humble home.
Hmmm

The other women in the house didn't mind playing nice with me....
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:29 PM   #24
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Hmmm

The other women in the house didn't mind playing nice with me....
Ah well, I believe the fear of death plays into those women's minds.
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Old Jun 25, 2012, 09:31 PM   #25
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Ah well, I believe the fear of death plays into those women's minds.
But what a way to go!!
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