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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:28 PM   #26
phantasmagoria
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
"Whereas I would consider the rMBP experience under Lion to be borderline unacceptable, everything is significantly better under Mountain Lion. Donít expect buttery smoothness across the board, youíre still asking a lot of the CPU and GPU, but itís a lot better."

ML is very important when it comes to this.
If ML makes things even better then great, but I just don't have any problems with my rMBP under Lion. Maybe I'm just less sensitive to these things than other people, but I spend literally all day on mine as it's my main work machine. I'm enjoying every minute of it at the moment.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:28 PM   #27
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Listen.

This is a poor excerpt to put on the front page without any context or clarification. I suggest everyone who is actually in the market for a new MacBook Pro in the next 6-8 months should read the article. Anand awarded the MacBook Pro Retina a Bronze Editor's Choice award... the highest award he's ever given to *any* Mac.

Yes, future versions will address some of these little speed bumps, but they are merely pimples on a supermodel. Seriously, don't sweat it.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:28 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much - actual users aren't complaining just people that are trying to get all analytical about it - none of the reviews I recall mention a bad experience due to lag - reviews mention Diablo 3 runs at native resolution lag free - many have mentioned you can run 2 thunderbolt displays without any noticeable lag - this is not a problem
I'm going to get it and see how well it performs before I decide to wait. Hopefully ML and future updates fix the problem.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:29 PM   #29
inket
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much - actual users aren't complaining just people that are trying to get all analytical about it - none of the reviews I recall mention a bad experience due to lag - reviews mention Diablo 3 runs at native resolution lag free - many have mentioned you can run 2 thunderbolt displays without any noticeable lag - this is not a problem
Exactly. People here are acting like it's the end of the world. "oh that's bad, 28fps isn't enough for a window animation. Guess I'm getting the worse, non-retina MacBook Pro for the same price, then."
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:30 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by musicpenguy View Post
I wouldn't worry about it too much - actual users aren't complaining just people that are trying to get all analytical about it - none of the reviews I recall mention a bad experience due to lag - reviews mention Diablo 3 runs at native resolution lag free - many have mentioned you can run 2 thunderbolt displays without any noticeable lag - this is not a problem
That
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:31 PM   #31
Fortimir
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Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
At least they're pushing the envelope, although doing so at the expense of user experience isn't very Apple-like. Fortunately it seems as though it isn't that large an issue for most users.
It's not even a large issue for *any* users. Anyone who is complaining, probably likes to complain. Facebook is an extreme example of a resource-hog of a website and in Mountain Lion it still achieves acceptable frame-rates with minor, albeit noticeable, hiccups.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:32 PM   #32
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vector UI is the thing.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:32 PM   #33
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The lag is fixed in Mountain Lion

I just recovered my password just to post this: yes, there was noticeable lag with Lion, but it's fixed in latest DP of Mountain Lion. I was shocked when I tested rMBP at an Apple Store, so waited for my friend's to get here, and it was just as laggy as in the Apple Store. But after installing Mountain Lion DP4 and updating it with latest patches, everything is super-fast. The scrolling is smooth and as fast as you'd expect it to be. There may still be some minor issues at high res, but with the amount of progress I've seen, I am sure it's all software at this point and will be optimized quickly post-release, if not by the time ML comes out.

So don't sweat it, new purchasers, the hardware is plenty enough to power rMBP. It was just a matter of optimizing the OS. I'm getting mine as soon as a local Apple Store has one in stock.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tomtom2234 View Post
I NEED a dedicated GPU also. I'm not sure. I may try using my current laptop or maybe my ipad 3 and just bring my desktop to college. I really wanted to leave it at home though.
DO you need one or just think you need one? Many colleges have dedicated computers and computer labs you can use for the applications the program/major requires.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:33 PM   #35
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I get about 20fps average when scrolling through websites such as Engadget and Macrumors. It still performs slightly better than my late 2008 MBP performed so I am still happy!
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:33 PM   #36
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So much for the full retina version of Diablo 3. If this has lag scrolling on Facebook, I can't imagine the poor frame rates it will get in a game at full resolution...
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:34 PM   #37
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I'm not surprised. In the notebook market the 650m is considered a mid-range card. I'm somewhat disappointed they didn't outfit it with a more higher end GPU, especially with the price they charge.

Last edited by Enectic; Jun 29, 2012 at 01:43 PM.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:34 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by DustinT View Post
I'm just trying to figure out why MR is posting a week old review from Anandtech. This isn't news... or rumors...
Yeah, it's fact.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:36 PM   #39
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I wonder what this means for the Mac mini in the long term? If they upgrade the ATD to retina, will they give the mini some real graphics grunt to drive it on the assumption people will pair the two?

In which case, could be see the mini become a competent gaming computer when paired with a non-retina display?
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:38 PM   #40
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Im feeling this is more a software issue then a hardware issue. According to Nvidia website the graphics card can handle up to 3840 x 2160.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/note...specifications
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:38 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Benjy91 View Post
I wondered why they went with that GPU.
Because they are so focused on making it thinner than everything else when it really isn't all that necessary. Slightly off topic, I always found it funny how TV companies keep touting super thing designs that just drive up the price...When you look at the TV straight on and not looking at the thickness whatsoever...Never understood it. You can only put so powerful of components into something so thin because of the heat and power they use. Anything else and the computer would not be able to cool the components.

This is probably the biggest reason why I'll wait a few years to get a rMBP. Simply because the mid range mobile graphics just aren't ready to push all those pixels for heavy graphics usage.

I can pretty much guarantee you that this is why there won't be an iMac with a retina display. Those also use mobile cards and the resolution needed to get the "retina" tag would be insane.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:39 PM   #42
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And this is exactly the problem with Apple computers for, dare i say it Decades.

They pretty much always have fitted poor graphics cards.
Probably the main reason why the Mac almost died when the PC gaming was zooming ahead. Apple just did, and do fit poor sub par graphics to their consumer machines.

Even the top iMacs have laptop graphics are they are obsessed about saving the extra half an inch of thickness on a desktop machine.

It's been Apple computers weak spot for so many many years and STILL they never seem to get it.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:44 PM   #43
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Great display with a crap poor video card. Im surprised they let this ship like this.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:45 PM   #44
Blackforge
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Originally Posted by Mattgfx View Post
Im feeling this is more a software issue then a hardware issue. According to Nvidia website the graphics card can handle up to 3840 x 2160.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/note...specifications
That is just the maximum resolution supported. That is not saying it handles it "well". The old Nvidia 9400M in my Mac Mini supported my 30" monitor (2560x1600) and also multiple displays... however it did not do it very well.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:46 PM   #45
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I really wish that Anandtech review was more specific about the performance of the Intel HD 4000 vs. the GeForce GT 650M in this regard. For instance, it isn't mentioned if the browser scrolling test was performed with the integrated or the discrete graphics...
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:47 PM   #46
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Pretty interesting. I'm typing this on my RMBP right now with Photoshop, Illustrator, Parallels, iTunes, and a dozen other applications open, and I've not noticed any sort of graphics limitations which are giving me any real-world fuss. Scrolling web pages has actually been a pretty smooth experience (maybe I'm missing out on some of the pages that are causing trouble). Upon reading the article I did try CTRL-zooming in and out on the page and that's not buttery smooth, but definitely more than smooth enough.

I definitely expect that any small performance issues are going to be cleaned completely or mostly in Mountain Lion.

As for scrolling, when I first started using the computer I did notice that it seemed just a touch less responsive, but now I can't even notice it (even switching between my Mac Pro and the MacBook Pro I just replaced).

I can't say the same for my Cinema display. Switching back to that after using the RMBP for a month was... jarring.

If someone's interested in buying one of these machines I definitely wouldn't get hung up on this little MacRumors article. Nothing mentioned here has given me even the slightest bit of trouble. Using this computer is a dream. It is the most enjoyable Macintosh I've ever owned.

As for AnandTech, their articles on the RMBP are fantastic. If anyone's going to take something away from them, they should read the full articles, not just snippets turned into sub-stories by third-party sites.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:47 PM   #47
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That is what I was expecting

I am a VJ, I do visuals for concerts, the video ram is so important because I am mixing layers of videos in real time.

If the video card is already maximized I have no room in video ram for the footage and real time composition since the same video card has to feed the computer monitor and the external video output.

The retina may be good for pictures but as I was expecting... no good for videos and real time rendering.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:48 PM   #48
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great display with a crap poor video card. Im surprised they let this ship like this.
+1
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:48 PM   #49
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It's less a GPU issue than a CPU issue. Framerate drops occurred on CPU-dependent sites like Facebook.
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Old Jun 29, 2012, 01:48 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Fynd View Post
There's no reason to believe this couldn't be sorted out through software.
While you are at it, software upgrade a moped to ride at 180 MPH. If you don't have enough hardware, no software will do the trick.

----------

Even if, they can improve performance a tiny bit by turning over some of the GPU acceleration back to the CPU, I can't picture using this with two external monitors.
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