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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:07 PM   #26
Rocketman
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Let me state the obvious. Any store, any vendor, anywhere, could accept payments via wifi (or Bluetooth). Router, PC, pad, phone as the receive point no problem. That would be far more ubuquitous now than NFC some day.

Heck it could also be done over 2.5G/3G/4G/LTE as well.

You can look for that.

Rocketman

What of . . . . the iPad7 is . . . .

A POS device
an educational pad
an in-car display (audio, GPS, diagnosis, etc)
a consumer pad for folks with good eyes, smaller hands, larger pockets, and purses.
an industrial sales, inventory and process tool with a holder reminescent of retail neckwear
Nearly iPod Touch edgeless format. Lower OD.

Hmmmmm. . . . . .
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:20 PM   #27
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The tech isn't ready yet. There's not nearly enough outlets to warrant putting that in a product yet.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixodes View Post
It would not surprise me in the least, if Apple became involved as an integral part of the payment system. They've got legions of believers that trust them more than they trust other entities.

Apple would get a cut, just like the credit card companies do now, and it would result in one more massive income stream for them.
This seems the most likely scenario for holding back.

Apple has demonstrated time and again that they want a cut of anything their devices do.

Moreover, if history repeats itself, they'll also want everyone tied to the Apple payment system with no other choice.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
So much for being an innovative company...
But why be one of the dozen also-rans? Mobile payment is important to mobile devices, but it's not Apple's expertise.

Besides, much like the online music stores were really "sink or swim" at the Big Five labels whim, the Visa/Master Card/ AmEx/Discover oligopoly is so powerful the tell Large Banks what to do. Right now it's all wasted effort until those guys give up their plans to add patent monopoly rent on TOP of their crazy merchant charges. Everybody in the industry in the USA is trying to lock up patent deals, then the first move is get bought by one of the Credit Card companies. Everybody is betting on "long shot" companies so they can collect $1 toll per transaction.

NFC isn't really Apple's fight.. With Microsoft in the game come fall that would be the time for Apple to move. Microsoft will burn a lot of cash uselessly.. Then banks should start throwing in backing. That is Apple's chance to pick the pony that will be the best long term effort.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:32 PM   #30
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I was a little curious why Tim Cook brought up the number of credit cards Apple has information on during the last WWDC. Maybe a bit of spin to prove to others that Apple has people very willing to spend money, provided they have an Apple device.

Easy pitch to keep repeating if you want to introduce your own payment device service going forward.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:37 PM   #31
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Apple as a Bank :| NO I will buy all your products but I'm not giving them my money to hold on for me. Unless you give me a GIANT DISCOUNT On your products. And I mean giant even then your not getting all my money!!!! I barely trust banks

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemütlichkeit View Post
The tech isn't ready yet. There's not nearly enough outlets to warrant putting that in a product yet.
I see NFC every where... They look exactly the same as the normal credit card skipper. You just have to look.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:37 PM   #32
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I'm ready whenever they are. I can't wait until I no longer have to carry a wallet; the obsolescence of the physical wallet has come.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:39 PM   #33
Lancer
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I have a NFC chip on my credit card (which also have a savings account attached) the only problem with that setup is you can only use it with the credit account. And most people don't want to pay for small items using credit. I hope NFC on a smart phone allows the user to choose how the pay for things.

I'm still hoping we get this an much more on the next iPhone at the end of the year, just not sure if I'll be able to afford it after my new iMac.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
So much for being an innovative company...
Translated:

Apple didn't add what "I" think is important so I'm going to throw a tantrum.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:54 PM   #35
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This is a good move by Apple. This is something that will happen, but it needs to be done correctly.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 06:54 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixodes View Post
It would not surprise me in the least, if Apple became involved as an integral part of the payment system. They've got legions of believers that trust them more than they trust other entities.

Apple would get a cut, just like the credit card companies do now, and it would result in one more massive income stream for them.

Perfect for Apple, nothing but money, money, money, money, money... well you get the idea.

I will admit, that at the present moment, it seems that there's no stopping them. The great majority of moves they make, turn to gold. I never expected this level of success from one single company. It's just incredible.

However, if this does come true, I will stop buying iPhones and immediately give the ones I have away. It was fun while it lasted, but I prefer choices and variety. Being hooked into an MPS by Apple is out of the question.

I'll keep using their computers as long as they suite me, but that's where I draw the line.

Having them act like a banker, financial institution, or however you want to categorize it, is of no interest to me. A large percentage of my transactions are cash. I have zero credit card balances, and I am not about to enroll in another system.
Well said! Although, I'm not giving 'anything' away!
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:01 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Image


The Wall Street Journal profiles Apple's "go-slow" approach to mobile payments. In June, Apple announced the inclusion of a feature called Passbook to iOS 6. Passbook allows users to keep loyalty cards, tickets and coupons in one central app. Passbook, however, does not offer a full payment system which has been a rumored area of research for Apple.

The Wall Street Journal reveals that this is a very deliberate decision from Apple:According to the Wall Street Journal's sources, a small group within Apple was reported to have been investigating a new service that would embed payment methods into the iPhone or even build a new payment network. Discussions reportedly included Apple facilitating payments with merchants and even all the way to the possibility of Apple to begin acting as a bank. Apple also considered simpler wallet app possibilities or working with existing middlemen and taking a small cut of each transaction.

Meanwhile, the Apple iPhone team had indeed explored NFC communications options in the next iPhone. Various concerns included impact on battery life, security, vendor adoption and customer satisfaction.

Ultimately, Passbook is said to be the current compromise while Apple presumably waits to see how the mobile payment market matures.

Article Link: Apple Deliberately Holding Back on Mobile Payment System
Can't wait....
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:03 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Mjmar View Post
Hopefully this means that whatever they're working on will be really good. I'm all for getting rid of the wallet.
Better hope your battery never goes out, or the network, or the power at the store to power the device you send info to. You'll still need a wallet for I.D./DL.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by 100Teraflops View Post
Well said! Although, I'm not giving 'anything' away!
Well...I am not sure that they would collect fees. But this is not going to be offered for free.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:09 PM   #40
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What next keys? I know they're trying to get the new smart cars to start from phones. More NFC.

Despite what Rocketman says I reckon mobile payments will only ever go via NFC to the vendor and then a secure line to the bank. Imagine sending your "money" over the air like that. It would only be a matter of time before someone learned how to 'divert' it.

Also is Rocketman's first language English because he posts are always so weird.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:10 PM   #41
khovland92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinfulton.ca View Post
^^^THIS^^^

While NFC is really cool and might be the way things are done in the future, people (even the most tech savvy) have too many questions regarding security, how it works etc. Some times, even when we have the tech, people are not always ready to jump in. This is a touchy subject for a lot of people and can't be forced on them because it effects their finances. It's a completely different way of doing things. I'm STILL getting used to using my phone for boarding pass barcodes or remembering to use my Starbucks app instead of buying gift cards (these are just habits). I think what they're doing is smart. Take small steps to get other payment methods (gift cards etc.) on the phone so that people get used to it and comfortable with the idea, then move on to credit and debit once it's the next logical step. They're training their customers for the future and I find that absolutely brilliant.
This is such an awkwardly wrong statement. People don't really know how NFC works so they shouldn't do it? People are concerned about security with an Apple product? People need to be really comfortable before moving on to the next technology?

Going by this logic they should have put a physical keyboard on the iPhone. The apparent approach they are doing with payments is very not-Apple. Apple doesn't think about markets, Apple doesn't think about what other companies are doing. They think about creating a single awesome user experience and then they unleash the product on the market. With their simplistic interfaces packed with next-gen features, their products are a hit. They have the opportunity to spearhead mobile payments, and instead are passing it up for everyone else. Doesn't sound like Apple at all

very strange.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:11 PM   #42
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Apple's philosophy (for better or for worse) has always been go slow so this news isn't really surprising to me.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:14 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by MultiMediaWill View Post
So much for being an innovative company...
Being reckless is stupid, not innovative. You think any sensible tech company would suddenly try to become a bank?
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Translated:

Apple didn't add what "I" think is important so I'm going to throw a tantrum.
Especially since what most of the "I"'s on this forum think are important are optical drives, firewire, and 256 Gigs of RAM on a Mac Pro.

Do people seriously hate using credit cards or that paper stuff the machine spits out?
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:20 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
John Gruber had some convincing podcast discussion of why he thinks Passbook may be a glimpse of a really big deal, a future plan that Apple is slowly and strategically building up:

http://muleradio.net/thetalkshow/6/

“Innovation” doesn’t automatically mean rushing ahead into the latest buzzword, succeed or fail. Apple’s style of innovation is more focused on doing a thing right than doing it rushed.
It's not innovation; it's marketing strategy. Apple is still a very innovative company, but don't be fooled by their holding back. Once an iPhone with LTE comes out, it's going to be a huge deal even though LTE has been out for quite some time. I don't care about LTE anyway since the current 4G is already too fast for my 200MB data plan.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:26 PM   #46
Rocketman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
I have a NFC chip on my credit card
Right where it belongs.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by hobo.hopkins View Post
I'm ready whenever they are. I can't wait until I no longer have to carry a wallet; the obsolescence of the physical wallet has come.
I agree 100%. I would love to replace my wallet with my phone. And I don't really care who "standardizes" it. To me, it is a killer app that would get me to consider non-Apple hardware.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:34 PM   #48
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No need for NFC

Check out this article.

http://www.computerworlduk.com/news/...-says-analyst/

It basically says that Apple can bypass POS systems just like in their Apple Stores. Just walk in, get your items and checkout and pay all from your iPhone. Automated. Seamless. Simple. No hassle.

FYI. When I first tried it at an Apple Store, it almost felt like I was stealing.

As for unlocking my car, home, or whatever, all I can say is, "open the pod bay doors, Hal (Siri)."
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:37 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
John Gruber had some convincing podcast discussion of why he thinks Passbook may be a glimpse of a really big deal, a future plan that Apple is slowly and strategically building up:

...

P.S. I have utterly no use for Passbook now. But if, SOME day, I can choose to no longer have a wallet, or even house keys (NFC!) I think I’ll appreciate that. Or even if I carry one “backup” ID card of some kind in case of hardware failure. Lugging my current stack of cards and cash and keys seems like something the future might not need....
Passbook doesn't appear to be much different than the CardStar app that has been in the App Store for years.

A few of the cards I have registered on CardStar generate scannable barcodes (my city library, BevMo, REI). More interesting is that the app actually informs you when there are special deals at a particular merchant. It's convenient that I don't have to remember to grab a loyalty/club card out of my car's glove compartment when I walk into a particular store.

It's likely that the initial version of Passbook will have similar functionality but not more. There are quite a few startups who have tried mobile payments and have failed (Mobibucks, Bling Nation) so it's wise for Apple to wait for a more well adopted system to emerge.

I doubt if anyone thinks that an NFC-enabled phone will totally eliminate the wallet. After all, the Japanese and South Koreans have been using these phones since 2005 and there are still situations where you need cash or use a credit card at a merchant who doesn't support NFC-enabled cellphones. Without a doubt, there are plenty of dive bars in San Francisco that won't accept any form of payment other than cash.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer View Post
I have a NFC chip on my credit card
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
Right where it belongs.
No, not for the Japanese and South Koreans.

Apparently, you do not realize that the U.S. is terribly behind the times with much about cellular technology. They've had NFC-enabled cellphones since 2005. Tens of millions of Japanese use their cellphones for NFC contactless payments as well as transit systems every single day.

Again, most Americans are completely clueless as to how well a payment-enabled cellphone really is and the fact that there are modern countries who have been using these systems for years and would silently blink if they read the embarrassingly naive commentary here on MacRumors, AppleInsider, or dozens of other American-centric technology forums.

It would be great if I could use my iPhone as a Clipper Card (the SF Bay Area's contactless transit card which works with eight local transit agencies). It would remove one card from my wallet.

Last edited by cvaldes; Jul 6, 2012 at 07:44 PM.
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Old Jul 6, 2012, 07:40 PM   #50
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I don't think most of you Americans appreciate how fragmented payment systems are. The iPhone is designed for the global marketplace and Apple has no interest in having different models for each country.

Even in North America, you have Visa, Mastercard, American Express, Chase Saphire etc.. and some of those are limited to the US only.

Japan does have sucia/pasmo but that is mostly limited to JR line trains and subways, vending machines near the subway lines and convenience stores like AMPM close to the subway lines. It is not a universal method of payment even in Japan and many vendors do not accept non-japanese credit or debit cards. When you visit Japan, you should get Japanese Yen bills before you leave on your trip.

Which provider is Apple supposed to partner with? What if their competitors claim anti-trust if they are not chosen?

Just use your existing credit or debit cards and CASH whether you are at home or abroad.

Apple did not implement NFC because it is a mess and will continue to be a problem.

Listen, I don't care how much some of you American would like the feature, you are not going to see it implemented in the iPhone because they now have a "world" phone that is sold throughout the world so they are not going to create a special version for Americans. Even if they considered it, they probably wanted to avoid the headaches right now.

@cvaldes: I have visted Japan and had first hand experience with their cash based society and PASMO. It is basically a transit card pass that you can use at some stores that sell junk food. It is not a replacement for credit cards or cash. Being integrated into a phone only provides some convenience but many Japanese simply have an iPhone case with a slot for a pasmo card.
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