Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:25 PM   #1
MacRumors
macrumors bot
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Jury Foreman in Apple vs. Samsung Case Speaks to Rationale for Verdict




With the landmark Apple vs. Samsung patent and design lawsuit resulting a $1 billion verdict for Apple late last week, considerable discussion about the jury's decision-making process has been making the rounds. Several members of the jury, including foreman Velvin Hogan, gave interviews after the trial, but a new video interview of Hogan by Bloomberg Television's Emily Chang provides some additional insight into the jury's thinking. The nearly 17-minute segment covers a number of topics including the jury dynamics, calculation of damages, and how Hogan's own experience with patents and financial statements helped guide the discussion and evaluation.




Hogan notes that he initially thought the case might swing Samsung's way as the jury initially had some difficulty assessing how the validity of the patents should be decided and applied to the case.
Quote:
We were at a stalemate, but some of the jurors were not sure of the patent prosecution process. Some were not sure of how prior art could either render a patent acceptable or whether it could invalidate it. What we did is we started talking about one and when the day was over and I was at home, thinking about that patent claim by claim, limit by limit, I had what we would call an a-ha moment and I suddenly decided I could defend this if it was my patent...And with that, I took that story back to the jury and laid it out for them. They understood the points I was talking about and then we meticulously went patent by patent and claim by claim against the test that the judge had given us, because each patent had a different legal premise to judge on. We got those all sorted out and decided which ones were valid and which ones were not.
Hogan also reiterates the jury's view that comments by Google demanding that Samsung tweak its product designs to look less similar to the iPhone and iPad were particularly damning, indicating that Samsung's infringement was willful as it took in Google's advice and opted not to follow it.

Overall, the jury found that the evidence in the case "spoke overwhelmingly" to Samsung's infringement, with the jury having put "each side to the test" equally in weighing both validity and infringement claims, working through each of the involved devices and claimed infringements to reach the $1 billion verdict. Hogan also walks through how that dollar amount was reached, using their own calculations of how much Apple lost in profits from sales of the infringing Samsung devices and then adding in royalty amounts to achieve a final number.

Article Link: Jury Foreman in Apple vs. Samsung Case Speaks to Rationale for Verdict
MacRumors is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:28 PM   #2
sha4000
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Plz not another thread. Here we go again.
sha4000 is offline   9 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:28 PM   #3
rjohnstone
macrumors 68030
 
rjohnstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PHX, AZ.
He needs to stop talking.
Every time he opens his mouth, he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
It's bad enough the jury flat out ignored the judges orders on damages, he's now admitting to doing all but taking the role of Apple's counsel in the jury room.
__________________
"You can't really dust for vomit" - Nigel Tuffnel
Some Apple *****, some Android ***** and some Windows based *****.
rjohnstone is offline   26 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:28 PM   #4
Steviejobz
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NYC
Apple found 12 uninformed people to determine whether or not we get competition in the mobile device market.

Brilliant.
__________________
Steviejobz is online now   24 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:31 PM   #5
xionxiox
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Hell
awesome. stellar. fantastic.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
Apple found 12 uninformed people to determine whether or not we get competition in the mobile device market.

Brilliant.
I believe Samsung agreed to the jury as well.
__________________
I am an Apple Lover & I require cookies.
Blue iPod Shuffle 2012, iPhone 5 (White), Macbook Unibody (Pre-Pro), On my 6th Magsafe charging cord.
xionxiox is offline   33 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:32 PM   #6
rendevouspoo
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
Good. They need to win the appeal. Consumers do too. The litigation thugs of Apple need to stop suing over petty stuff like 'pinch-to-zoom.' That's like LG suing Panasonic for putting an 'input' button on their television remote.
rendevouspoo is offline   30 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:32 PM   #7
damitssam
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
He needs to stop talking.
Every time he opens his mouth, he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
It's bad enough the jury flat out ignored the judges orders on damages, he's now admitting to doing all but taking the role of Apple's counsel in the jury room.
Samsung's lawyers are licking their chops. How the hell could their lawyers let a guy like this slip into the jury.
damitssam is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:32 PM   #8
CGagnon
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
This guy looks/sounds so nervous.
__________________
iOS Security Researcher/Hacker
rMBP 2.7/16/768
27" iMac 3.4/32/3TB Fussion
MP, Two 3.06GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon/64/2048 SSD
CGagnon is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:33 PM   #9
miles01110
macrumors 604
 
miles01110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Ivory Tower (I'm not coming down)
Wow. Interesting that the jury went from this:

Quote:
Hogan notes that he initially thought the case might swing Samsung's way as the jury initially had some difficulty assessing how validity of the patents should be decided and applied to the case.
To this:

Quote:
Overall, the jury found that the evidence in the case "spoke overwhelmingly" to Samsung's infringement, with the jury having put "each side to the test" equally in weighing both validity and infringement claims, working through each of the involved devices and claimed infringements to reach the $1 billion verdict.
__________________
Got a problem? Check here first.
miles01110 is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:33 PM   #10
rjohnstone
macrumors 68030
 
rjohnstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PHX, AZ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xionxiox View Post
awesome. stellar. fantastic.

----------



I believe Samsung agreed to the jury as well.
Not really... it's a case of compromise.
Each side could only reject 4 jurors from the final pool.
__________________
"You can't really dust for vomit" - Nigel Tuffnel
Some Apple *****, some Android ***** and some Windows based *****.
rjohnstone is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:34 PM   #11
hchung
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
Apple found 12 uninformed people to determine whether or not we get competition in the mobile device market.

Brilliant.
It's supposed to be this way. Less bias. More focus on the evidence presented.
hchung is offline   12 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:34 PM   #12
sha4000
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by damitssam View Post
Samsung's lawyers are licking their chops. How the hell could their lawyers let a guy like this slip into the jury.
Said all the right things when being questioned I would think.
sha4000 is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:37 PM   #13
neiltc13
macrumors 68040
 
neiltc13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
He needs to stop talking.
Every time he opens his mouth, he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
It's bad enough the jury flat out ignored the judges orders on damages, he's now admitting to doing all but taking the role of Apple's counsel in the jury room.
No, if the decision was flawed then we need to know about it. If that means Samsung deserves to win the appeal, then justice will be done.
neiltc13 is offline   24 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:37 PM   #14
spacehog371
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
The patent he is talking about is Samsung's.

He went home and thought about Samsungs patent, and decided that it was defensible, and for that reason deemed it valid.

People here seem to think that the 460 patent is one of Apple's. It isn't.
spacehog371 is offline   20 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:38 PM   #15
pandamonia
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
So one man led a 12 man jury to agree with him because he thought he was right!

Samsung should be able to appeal this pretty easy because the more i read the more i think this whole trial was a joke.
pandamonia is offline   15 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:38 PM   #16
jontech
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hawaii
TOO.... MUCH..... LOGIC....


Ahh my Android head!
__________________
Psalm 91
jontech is offline   6 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:38 PM   #17
jhende7
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
Apple found 12 uninformed people to determine whether or not we get competition in the mobile device market.

Brilliant.
Lol. You can say the result stifles competition over and over and over again but that doesn't make it true. Last time I checked there are plenty of other manufacturers out there making their own phones that will provide great competition for years to come. Competition does not equal clones. You sir don't have the right to call anybody else "uninformed" with the b.s your trying to pass off as fact.
jhende7 is offline   45 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:41 PM   #18
wkadamsjr
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rendevouspoo View Post
Good. They need to win the appeal. Consumers do too. The litigation thugs of Apple need to stop suing over petty stuff like 'pinch-to-zoom.' That's like LG suing Panasonic for putting an 'input' button on their television remote.
Ah yes, this argument again. Because pinch-to-zoom is the only patent Samsung violated...
wkadamsjr is offline   20 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:41 PM   #19
DisMyMac
macrumors 65816
 
DisMyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Turning jurors into celebrities is bad for justice.
DisMyMac is offline   10 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:41 PM   #20
Benjamins
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
lol little did they know, Google screwed them over.
Benjamins is offline   7 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:42 PM   #21
Rogifan
macrumors 604
 
Rogifan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Wasn't Samsung involved in jury selection? Would be hard to appeal on jury incompetence when they helped select the jury. But I'm sure Apple wishes he'd just ****.
__________________
"I have a very optimistic view of individuals. As individuals, people are inherently good. I have a somewhat more pessimistic view of people in groups." -- Steve Jobs , Wired interview
Rogifan is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:43 PM   #22
Piggie
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamonia View Post
So one man led a 12 man jury to agree with him because he thought he was right!

Samsung should be able to appeal this pretty easy because the more i read the more i think this whole trial was a joke.
I have been on a Jury myself and yes I fully agree that this is how it is in real life.
The jury I was on (a few drugs cases) the people (public) were pretty much confused and could see both sides. It really only takes one or two strong willed and persuasive people on the jury to sway the majority. It's quite scary actually esp if you are sending someone to prison.
__________________
Amiga 500, N64, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox360 Slim 250GB, PS3, Nokia 6210, 3 Home Made PC's, Adidas Watch, Nikon + Fuji Cameras, 32GB iPad, Furry Pigs (mainly pink!)
Piggie is offline   10 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:44 PM   #23
KPOM
macrumors G3
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
He needs to stop talking.
Every time he opens his mouth, he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
It's bad enough the jury flat out ignored the judges orders on damages, he's now admitting to doing all but taking the role of Apple's counsel in the jury room.
I doubt it. Jurors speak out all the time. He isn't saying that they considered any other research or that he did anything improper. Both sides and the judge knew his background and that he had patents and was involved in lawsuits in the past. He simply explained to the rest of the jury the concepts that were laid out in the instructions.

Jurors are supposed to consider the evidence presented to them. That doesn't mean checking their brains at the door.
KPOM is offline   23 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:46 PM   #24
Blorzoga
macrumors 68020
 
Blorzoga's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjohnstone View Post
He needs to stop talking.
Every time he opens his mouth, he is helping Samsung's case for appeal.
It's bad enough the jury flat out ignored the judges orders on damages, he's now admitting to doing all but taking the role of Apple's counsel in the jury room.
It's called being the foreman, genius.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviejobz View Post
Apple found 12 uninformed people to determine whether or not we get competition in the mobile device market.

Brilliant.
The jury is selected by both parties, not just the plaintiff.
Blorzoga is offline   35 Reply With Quote
Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:46 PM   #25
Icaras
macrumors 601
 
Icaras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: California, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhende7 View Post
Lol. You can say the result stifles competition over and over and over again but that doesn't make it true. Last time I checked there are plenty of other manufacturers out there making their own phones that will provide great competition for years to come. Competition does not equal clones. You sir don't have the right to call anybody else "uninformed" with the b.s your trying to pass off as fact.
Well said, sir. Especially the bit in bold.
__________________
iMac (27-inch, Late 2012) iPad Air iPhone 5 Apple TV (3rd Generation) Airport Time Capsule OS X Mavericks iOS 7 Logic Pro X
Icaras is offline   29 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Jury Finds Both Apple and Samsung Guilty of Patent Infringement, Samsung to Pay $119.6 Million, Apple to Pay $158,400 MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 609 May 23, 2014 05:53 PM
Samsung to Appeal $119M Patent Verdict as Foreman Says Apple Should Target Google Instead MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 203 May 8, 2014 12:48 PM
Apple Responds to Samsung's Request for Information on Trial Jury Foreman MacRumors Mac Blog Discussion 33 Jan 16, 2013 01:07 AM
Judge Will "Consider" Questions on Jury Foreman in Samsung v. Apple Trial MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 154 Nov 27, 2012 06:36 PM
Jury Members Discuss Thought Process Behind Apple vs. Samsung Verdict MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 730 Sep 4, 2012 10:43 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC