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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:38 AM   #26
Mr. Retrofire
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Originally Posted by Dark-Sider View Post
Here we go again. If the EU investigates this issue, they should also investigate Dell and other companies, because they do the same thing.
We talk about Apple, not “Dell and other companies”. Next argument please!
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:40 AM   #27
macchiato2009
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Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Why do we have to protect stupid people? Can nobody read these days?
they are called consumers and you are one of them
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:40 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by MartinSpoon View Post
Apple want to sell me something that is mostly covered for free as part of my legal rights. That's exploitation of the customer.
Correct.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:41 AM   #29
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Surprised nobody has mentioned the dismal 90 day phone support. If its over 90 days you have to pay Apple extra for them to even talk to you further about the issue Surely phone support should be available all the time like it is at most other companies.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:42 AM   #30
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A lot of hate for the principal of consumer protection in this thread! I know it may be different from the US, but its what we've got, and frankly, as someone that has benefited from such protection, I'm not complaining.

Like I've already said, the principal is simple - fit for purpose, as described, and last a reasonable amount of time. Simples.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:42 AM   #31
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I am from EU and I always thought that Apple gives 1 year warranty and that AppleCare is meant for another one! Indeed, that should be clarified!
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:43 AM   #32
sasza
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Originally Posted by striker33 View Post
Great news.

Most manufacturers are now giving 2 year warranties by default in the EU now, including the likes of Samsung.

Yet Apple are still trying to get me to pay an extra £60 on top of the £700 I paid for my scuffed up iPhone.

Someone needs to sack Tim Cook.
Exactly!

Nokia, Samsung, LG - you name it. Every one of them is giving 2 years warranty for their poduct in the EU. What is Apple waiting for?
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:44 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by rmatthewware View Post
This crap again? It should be the consumer's responsibility to know what the law guarantees. You don't want AppleCare? Don't buy it.
It's European Law, not American.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allenbf View Post
Why do we have to protect stupid people? Can nobody read these days?
Stupid people?
Education quality is better in Europe than the states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by taedouni View Post
Looks like the failing socialist union is just trying to find a reason to fine another large American company.
Maybe the (part) EU is in trouble because of America, where most problems started.

Maybe you guys should ask yourself why there is so much hatred amongst people in other parts of the world against Americans.
But hey, when you are in a foreign country you hide yourself behind pretending to be canadian.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:44 AM   #34
parish
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Originally Posted by convergent View Post
the morons who live in Europe and don't know that the law there makes all manufacturers give you a 2 year warranty.
Wrong. Under EU (and UK domestic) law, the warranty is provided by the vendor, not the manufacturer. It's part of contract law. When you buy something your contract is with the retailer you buy it from, not the manufacturer. Of course, if you buy directly from Apple then they are one and the same.

For example, I bought my iPhone from my carrier (Vodafone) so, if I have an issue with it, it is up to VF to fix it. If I take it to a VF shop they will do that, but they just send it to Apple, but in the case of Apple I can just walk into an Apple Store and they'll fix/replace it. Doing it through VF will take weeks.

The other thing, as Apple correctly point out, is that the onus is on you to prove that the defect existed at the time of purchase which is going to be nigh on impossible if the thing has worked perfectly for 9 months.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:44 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by convergent View Post
Another idiotic lawsuit. So Apple has to spend their money to have special advertising for the morons who live in Europe and don't know that the law there makes all manufacturers give you a 2 year warranty. And who gets the money from the lawsuit... probably the government. These stupid laws and stupid lawsuits really make me sick. A company should be free to have whatever warranty period they wish, and if the consumer wants more then they can buy more coverage or not by the product. Let market demand and competition dictate what is needed.
I'm sure Apple won't go bankrupt by inserting a sentence in the online checkout informing you of your rights. I find it insulting you categorize an entire international community bloc as "morons".

The point here is not that Apple didn't sufficiently advertise the EU-Wide warranty, but that they actively tried to deceive you into purchasing their own warranty by implying that that is the only way of receiving a second year of warranty service.

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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:47 AM   #36
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What is never mentioned in these discussions is that Applecare+ also extends the Apple Phone Tech Support from 3 months to 2 years. I am not aware of whether the EU protection extends the tech support.

Calls to Apple Tech Support, after three months of free support, cost $50 a call. This may not be much of an issue to many (most?) here on MR, but for the average user that tech support is a very valuable resource. And at $50 a call, for many of us the extended tech support coverage pays for the contract many times over.

If the EU protection includes Tech Support, then that is a different story. If not, for many it is an important issue.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Xikum View Post
Why are people trying to defend Apple here? Are you that loyal to a brand that you literally ENCOURAGE a company to be devious in a way that DOESN'T benefit you whatsoever?
I would have to agree at times. I to wish that the states had laws similar to this, no matter the fine print. If in two years my product fails under normal use I get issued a new one or a repair.

Then the warranties could be left to whatever happens after that two year period, or if I happen to damage my product myself.

What's so terrible wrong with that?
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:50 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JayLenochiniMac View Post
Europe is such a nanny state.
Better this (the EU) than no protection @ all.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:54 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by TMar View Post
If you live in the EU you should know about your laws, no? So why the need for companies to advertise it for them?
Companies don't have to advertised it, they don't have advertise their own warranty plans like there is only one year of warranty in the EU
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:54 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by macchiato2009 View Post
they are called consumers and you are one of them
Uh, nice try, but I read my warranty information on everything I buy. I also read contracts before I sign them. Maybe I'm the weird one, huh?

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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:55 AM   #41
sasza
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
What is never mentioned in these discussions is that Applecare+ also extends the Apple Phone Tech Support from 3 months to 2 years. I am not aware of whether the EU protection extends the tech support.

Calls to Apple Tech Support, after three months of free support, cost $50 a call. This may not be much of an issue to many (most?) here on MR, but for the average user that tech support is a very valuable resource. And at $50 a call, for many of us the extended tech support coverage pays for the contract many times over.

If the EU protection includes Tech Support, then that is a different story. If not, for many it is an important issue.
The problem is Apple doesn't offer AppleCare for iPhone in all countries so when I buy an iPhone I get only 1 year warranty and after that I'm on my own. http://www.apple.com/fi/support/products/
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:56 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by parish View Post
The other thing, as Apple correctly point out, is that the onus is on you to prove that the defect existed at the time of purchase which is going to be nigh on impossible if the thing has worked perfectly for 9 months.
No, you don't have to prove that the defect existed at the time of purchase
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:57 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Big-TDI-Guy View Post
Wish the US had the same consumer rights that the EU provides!
And I wish we'd had the same level of customer support as in the US. I will never ever call again to those stupid f@&"€@@&
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 11:59 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
Calls to Apple Tech Support, after three months of free support, cost $50 a call. This may not be much of an issue to many (most?) here on MR,
If it's not, it's because support at an Apple Store is free.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:00 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
...
justperry, your comment is hilarious and true. Thanks!
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by zin View Post
I'm sure Apple won't go bankrupt by inserting a sentence in the online checkout informing you of your rights. I find it insulting you categorize an entire international community bloc as "morons".
I don't see that. He refered to people that don't know the warranty as morons. That is a population including only people that don't know the warranty. Unless all Europeans don't know it, but I don't think that's true.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:05 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by convergent View Post
Another idiotic lawsuit. So Apple has to spend their money to have special advertising for the morons who live in Europe and don't know that the law there makes all manufacturers give you a 2 year warranty. And who gets the money from the lawsuit... probably the government. These stupid laws and stupid lawsuits really make me sick. A company should be free to have whatever warranty period they wish, and if the consumer wants more then they can buy more coverage or not by the product. Let market demand and competition dictate what is needed.

Edit: I'm not implying that all Europeans are morons... I'm meaning the morons who don't know the law about 2 year warranties, which should be common knowledge if all companies are required to provide it in Europe. After reading what I wrote, just wanted to be clear.
Thing is that Europian people know about 2years waranty problem is that Apple dosen't want to follow the rule of EU...but they want to sell in EU.

Well my friend if you want to sell in EU you should obey EU laws.
If EU state that everyone who sell can give 1year waranty plus on top of that you get one more year because of the law...Then Apple should tell that totall warranty without purchasing Apple Protection plan is 1+1year in EU countries. Thing is they don't want to cover you two years...or else they would make this visable on websites accross the EU....

So if you are one of the idiots who don't have clue about EU law then you will pay from your pocket for any repairing after this 1year that is advertised on Apple website....Unfortunatly because EU goverments know that there is many people who don't read this warranty crap...then they prefer that there is simple line on every EU apple site 2years warranty included 1year from Apple 1year from EU zone....
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:06 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by rollzst View Post
good news, it is very misleading on their website. Lets hope something is done.
What exactly do you find misleading?

When you go for example into one of the Apple stores in Lakeside or Bluewater (UK), you will find the same sign on the wall that you find in every other store in these locations, where the store says what their store policies are, and at the end the words "your statutory rights are not affected".
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:07 PM   #49
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Maybe you guys should ask yourself why there is so much hatred amongst people in other parts of the world against Americans.
Well, in 1900 it was because the USA was keeping to itself and becoming financially powerful while ignoring the rest of the world as much as possible.

After the "world wars", the USA started doing stuff to the rest of the world. So, for many decades the hatred was because of the "imperialistic" use of financial power to impact other countries. (the opposite of before)

Now, of course, it's because Apple offers their products here first.
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Old Oct 1, 2012, 12:09 PM   #50
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No, you don't have to prove that the defect existed at the time of purchase
That's the usual misunderstanding what "defect" means. If you have an item that will work for 24 months if it is built correctly but breaks after nine months if built incorrectly, and that item breaks after nine months because it was built incorrectly, then the item was _defective_ from day one, not from the day that it stopped working.


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Originally Posted by sasasule View Post
Well my friend if you want to sell in EU you should obey EU laws.
If EU state that everyone who sell can give 1year waranty plus on top of that you get one more year because of the law...Then Apple should tell that totall warranty without purchasing Apple Protection plan is 1+1year in EU countries.
That's what they do. When you look at the terms for AppleCare, they state clearly that there is other legal protection available to you, and where to look up the exact terms. I compared that with Dell's site, and Dell actually does _not_ do it (not two months ago). And that said, there are cases where the EU law will not help you, for example if the seller goes bankrupt, if you buy in one country and move to another country (so to make the seller repair the item you would have to travel back), you can buy AppleCare for items bought in the USA not covered by EU law, or if you just have a dodgy seller who refuses to help you.


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Originally Posted by usptact View Post
I am from EU and I always thought that Apple gives 1 year warranty and that AppleCare is meant for another one! Indeed, that should be clarified!
Yes, Apple gives you one year manufacturer's warranty. That's correct. Yes, AppleCare gives you another one or two years, depending on the product. That's correct as well. And whoever sells the product (sometimes Apple, sometimes not) has more legal obligations, and Apple correctly tells you that there are laws protecting you. They have links to explanations, but mostly it's up to you, and your responsibility to educate yourself.


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Originally Posted by MartinSpoon View Post
It's mis-selling something, which in UK at least is a big issue just now (banks selling insurance products that did not cover the people they were sold to).

Apple want to sell me something that is mostly covered for free as part of my legal rights. That's exploitation of the customer.
It's not, because unlike the banks Apple actually tells you what's going on. And they don't sell AppleCare without you noticing it (like bank employees ticking a checkbox "I want insurance" when you are gone). And in many cases the "insurance" products sold by banks didn't actually protect you.

Last edited by gnasher729; Oct 1, 2012 at 12:21 PM.
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