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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:54 PM   #26
Lark.Landon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
Apple screwed this up in just about every way possible.

They failed to:

1. Provide even a superficial performance boost by making the cable USB3
2. Engage manufacturers early so that when the phone came out their partners could benefit from increased dock/accessory sales.


Honestly, all this has been nothing but an inconvenience for the customer and if I was an accessory maker I'd be furious heading into the holiday season with no iPhone5 ready products to drive holiday sales.
1. What's a superficial performance boost?

2. A business exists for its own profit. You would not start or open a business to make OTHER people money. I know if I were to open my own business, it would be for my own profit.

It is a temporary inconvenience. Apple has not had a new connector in over five years. Nothing is perfect, not even Apple. If you think you can do a better job, open up your own business and turn it into a multi-billion dollar company.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:55 PM   #27
tylersdad
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I don't see accessory manufacturers being in a huge hurry to get their Lightning-compatible devices out the door. There are far more 30-pin devices in user's hands than there are Lightning devices. The 30-pin market is much larger.

That's not to say that they won't make Lightning devices. They're just not going to expedite the process. More than likely, the few devices that do come out will be higher-end devices to make it worth their while since the market is smaller.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:56 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
Apple screwed this up in just about every way possible.

They failed to:

1. Provide even a superficial performance boost by making the cable USB3
I don't think you understand what superficial means. No rational engineer would do something superficial.

Many have pointed out that the write speeds of the iPhone's flash memory doesn't even saturate USB 2.0's maximum speed. They have also pointed out that the "Lightning" connector itself is likely USB 3.0 compatible; all it needs is the right chips in the iPhone — which would be silly to put in when the speed is unusable at this point.

This kind of superficiality you advocate is what leads to Android phones with specs to make your head spin but which don't perform anywhere near as smoothly as the iPhone. So why don't you go buy a Samsung Galaxy SXVI 5G LTE-X running Android 6.7 'Every-Flavour Jelly Bean' with Olive Oil Smoothness Enhancement, which, of course, pointlessly supports USB 3.0 via its fragile Micro-USB port.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:56 PM   #29
Monkey Butler
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As it stands now I can walk into a supermarket and buy a 30 pin car adaptor for my iPhone for less than $10. Tell me again why it's a good idea for apple to have a "tight grip" on the accessory market.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:56 PM   #30
bigcat318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Using that logic.

Don't buy a cheap Chinese phone like an iPhone?
There is nothing cheap about the iPhone. No where did he imply that everything made in China was poor quality. But you can't argue that they aren't king when it comes to making cheap knockoffs.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:57 PM   #31
Dorje Sylas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
Apple screwed this up in just about every way possible.

They failed to:

1. Provide even a superficial performance boost by making the cable USB3
2. Engage manufacturers early so that when the phone came out their partners could benefit from increased dock/accessory sales.


Honestly, all this has been nothing but an inconvenience for the customer and if I was an accessory maker I'd be furious heading into the holiday season with no iPhone5 ready products to drive holiday sales.
1. It's been shown that the Lighting Pins could in theory be setup to take USB3 input (8 pins + 1 casing ground). A USB2 cable makes sense to start with as the vast majorty of charging/physical-syncing options are all USB2 based. Just look at the number of socket adaptors or even actual built into the wall USB2 charging ports are out in the wild. Shipping with a USB3/Lighting cable wouldn't have worked.

Also as pointed out Apple is starting to make the switch to all Wireless Syincing. That's where they want consumers to go. Again no reason to force the issue on USB3 at launch.

2. A good point, and it seems like that did approach some notable 3rd parties already. They could have gotten more. However this is almost identical to the ramp up when the USB iPods first launched. The 30-pin has seen at best 8 years product ramp up. You can't snap your fingers and make those 8 years transition into a new connector over night, or more generously in 2 to 3 months. Case in point, look how long it's taking USB3 to ramp up. It was introduced 2008, one year later we started seeing the first products. Even now in 2012 USB3 is not a "no duh" port that USB2 (which benefited from supporting USB1.1) currently is. Give Apple and partnered manufactures 1 year to get rolling and you'll start seeing more styles Lighting supported devices then USB3.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 03:57 PM   #32
Lark.Landon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Using that logic.

Don't buy a cheap Chinese phone like an iPhone?
Read OP before trolling.



Originally Posted by chuckd83

"here's an idea...release your tight grip on the lightning thing so we don't end up with bricked iPhones by using cheap Chinese hacked crap."
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:00 PM   #33
Dwalls90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Dalrymple View Post
They're meeting with accessory makers next month? They're already running about a month late.
Completely agree. This conversation should have been had with a select few even before the keynote, or at least literally the same day! That way we maybe could have seen some accessories roll out by now, or at least before Christmas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
Apple screwed this up in just about every way possible.

They failed to:

1. Provide even a superficial performance boost by making the cable USB3
2. Engage manufacturers early so that when the phone came out their partners could benefit from increased dock/accessory sales.


Honestly, all this has been nothing but an inconvenience for the customer and if I was an accessory maker I'd be furious heading into the holiday season with no iPhone5 ready products to drive holiday sales.
100% agree. It's irresponsible that they are waiting yet another whole month before even having these meetings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aurichie View Post
Where did you read this?
It's actually true. The flash memory used in iPhones is not of the "quality" in terms of speed compared to that of the type used in SSDs. It doesn't have those exceptionally rapid read/write speeds, even compared to burst speeds in mechanical hard drives for computers. That's why even when you download a song over LTE, you could be very well bottlenecked by the flash memory and not network bandwidth. Speed has been improving, but USB 2.0 speeds haven't even been completely saturated yet, as the bottleneck is still the flash memory.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:08 PM   #34
absurdamerica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lark.Landon View Post
1. What's a superficial performance boost?

2. A business exists for its own profit. You would not start or open a business to make OTHER people money. I know if I were to open my own business, it would be for my own profit.

It is a temporary inconvenience. Apple has not had a new connector in over five years. Nothing is perfect, not even Apple. If you think you can do a better job, open up your own business and turn it into a multi-billion dollar company.
By superficial I mean unnecessary. Faster Synching is hardly a need, but if you're going to **** with my connector and inconvenience me there should be some benefit.

As for point 2, supporting your partners IS supporting your own profit. Not only do those partners pay licensing fees to certify their devices and not only does apple see revenue for each device sold under most of its licensing agreements but having more accessories out for your flagship product just makes good business sense.

As for the rest of your blather, we're here to discuss Apple and Apple's products both the good and the bad. Don't like it? Don't read my posts.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:09 PM   #35
chuckd83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lark.Landon View Post
Or don't buy cheap Chinese hacked crap and your phone won't get bricked?
1. don't want to remember to bring the one cable the phone came with if I want to charge it.
2. can't drop $30 every time I want to charge my phone somewhere other than my house.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:12 PM   #36
cmichaelb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
Apple screwed this up in just about every way possible.

They failed to:

1. Provide even a superficial performance boost by making the cable USB3
2. Engage manufacturers early so that when the phone came out their partners could benefit from increased dock/accessory sales.


Honestly, all this has been nothing but an inconvenience for the customer and if I was an accessory maker I'd be furious heading into the holiday season with no iPhone5 ready products to drive holiday sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMBP View Post
Would have made more sense if the meeting was held Sept. 13th...



From what I've read, USB 3 would not have affected any performance in the iPhone. The bottleneck in the iPhone is the memory chip, which is slower than USB 2. So you wouldn't see any benefit from 3.0.

Once Apple gets faster chips, they update Lightning to USB 3.0 (probably in a couple years).
Exactly, I think it was Schiller who came out and said that was the bottleneck and USB3 adds no performance boost.

I can see the OP's point from a 'perception' standpoint, that it would have looked better. But conversely, when you're not downloading any faster, there was a chance of a negative perception.
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Last edited by cmichaelb; Oct 17, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:14 PM   #37
FirePhantom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuregulin View Post
I guess Apple is still debating about USB3 as a whole..... not just for iOS devices, but for Mac too. Before the Mac getting USB3, no way any iOS device is getting that ability.

Interesting to see whether next week's update on rMBP or iMac will have this improvement. Don't see any technical difficulty anywhere in the USB3 business.
The Retina MacBook Pro has two USB 3.0 ports.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:18 PM   #38
macchiato2009
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suggested news title revision


Apple Meeting With Accessory Makers to Promote Lightning Royalty fees




like for Thunderbolt, we won't see any cheap accessories coming...
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:19 PM   #39
studio╣│╣
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckd83 View Post
1. don't want to remember to bring the one cable the phone came with if I want to charge it.
i forgot my cable at home today (nearest apple store and best buy don't have any ip5 accessories available). have to try to make 30% last all day...

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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:21 PM   #40
Sacird
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The better be ultra thin accessories, I can't buy anything now that isn't ultra thin. I am talking pringles chip thin here.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:22 PM   #41
STiNG Operation
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Welllllll they should have hooked Mophie up with the design right away.....smh
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:22 PM   #42
XtraSmiley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSMBP View Post
From what I've read, USB 3 would not have affected any performance in the iPhone. The bottleneck in the iPhone is the memory chip, which is slower than USB 2. So you wouldn't see any benefit from 3.0.
Can you provide a source for this?
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:24 PM   #43
faroZ06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
Using that logic.

Don't buy a cheap Chinese phone like an iPhone?
Chinese does not imply cheap build quality. Chinese companies make both the real Apple accessories and the fake ones.

I am very grateful for illegitimate Chinese companies for the third time so far. First, the knockoff MacBook charger. Then the knockoff Dock Connector adaptors. And now, best of all, I got an HDCP removal device! Get owned, Intel.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:24 PM   #44
jrswizzle
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There's an easy fix for this.....

AirPlay
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:25 PM   #45
Lark.Landon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
By superficial I mean unnecessary. Faster Synching is hardly a need, but if you're going to **** with my connector and inconvenience me there should be some benefit.

As for point 2, supporting your partners IS supporting your own profit. Not only do those partners pay licensing fees to certify their devices and not only does apple see revenue for each device sold under most of its licensing agreements but having more accessories out for your flagship product just makes good business sense.

As for the rest of your blather, we're here to discuss Apple and Apple's products both the good and the bad. Don't like it? Don't read my posts.

"They failed to:

1. Provide even an unnecessary performance boost by making the cable USB3"

- Yeah. That totally makes more sense. *sarcasm*

So being the one and only provider for a particular product is less profitable than outsourcing and collecting some licensing fees?

This is a forum. It is meant for discussion. You can engage other people in conversation and debate and it has been designed to be this way. If you don't want people to reply to your hot air, then don't post on this forum.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:26 PM   #46
ljmac
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Originally Posted by MCP-511 View Post
I 2nd that. Me too.
Here is my dock!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:26 PM   #47
pacalis
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Originally Posted by Lark.Landon View Post
Woo! This means cheaper lightning connectors. I wonder how many people will complain about even this..
No it doesn't. They're going to want a royalty off every accessory. The security is in there not so that it doesn't get hacked but so they can show intent on patent suits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigcat318 View Post
Unless they plan to stop companies in China from making cheap knockoffs I'm not sure what the point of the tight control is.
They'll lose some customers to this for sure - but they want to control the US and European retail channels and prevent them from selling the knockoffs.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:28 PM   #48
faroZ06
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"It sells them in volume, and our source says the pricing is actually very fair when you consider the advanced technology involved in the connector's construction."

No, Apple, just let people make all the cheap iPhone accessories they want to promote the standard. Doesn't Apple get it by now? I remember reading an article about how Photoshop became dominant because so many people pirated it.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:29 PM   #49
ArcaneDevice
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Over-complicating what should be the simplest part of a device is a move guaranteed to piss off the public and slow adoption.

A cable should be a dumb, cheap thing you can easily find and break and buy without even thinking about it.

It shouldn't require reverse engineering, authorized parts and costly production.
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 04:30 PM   #50
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I have to agree with others. Apple really did screw this up. I guess this is the problem of having a Fall launch instead of the old Summer launch.
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