GTX 680MX is practically a Desktop 680

trip1ex · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
I disagree.. the DirectX->OpenGL gap is narrowing; it could actually be closed in a couple years. You can also throw Windows on it if you really want DirectX performance. This won't give you exactly the performance of dual desktop GTX 680's, but it will scream. If you're willing to sacrifice about 10-15% performance for a better all-around OS, an iMac with 680MX will be a fantastic choice.

I'm assuming they have a heat solution; if they don't, they'll be hearing from me quite often. ;-)

There's nothing to disagree with.

Gaming and iMac don't mix. Hey I tried for years, but ultimately it just makes so much more sense to build a Windows pc for gaming and buy a Mac laptop or Mini or MBA for OSX. And you'll still spend less money. And your gaming pc will have faster hardware and be upgradeable if you need a new gpu or SSD or .... And you'll have 2 computers. And you can then have a portable Mac if you want with a gaming pc at home. ...

It isn't like you can play every game in OSX either on your iMac so you'll be booting up to Windows. Never mind that games in OSX run slower on the same hardware.

Gaming on an iMac is ultimately for sadists. It's a universal law. IT is what it is. Like gravity.

forty2j · Oct 24, 2012

trip1ex said:
Gaming on an iMac is ultimately for sadists.

See, I find gaming on an iMac less sadistic than using Windows, at all, for anything.

Mister Bumbo · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
See, I find gaming on an iMac less sadistic than using Windows, at all, for anything.

Hear, hear! *highfive*

trip1ex · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
See, I find gaming on an iMac less sadistic than using Windows, at all, for anything.

I guess you don't play a lot of games then.

Mr Rogers · Oct 24, 2012

karpich1 said:
If that is the post I'm thinking of.... you weren't comparing apples to apples (so to speak) if you took the Alienware into consideration.

The benchmarks listed one nVidia laptop by Schenker, one AMD laptop by the same Schenker, and ANOTHER AMD laptop manufactured by ALIENWARE

CAD, no contest. AMD blew nVidia away.

Games though, comparing only Schenker to Schenker (ignoring Alienware) it was nVidia 6 / AMD 9. Most the wins/losses were relatively close (a couple of percent). Though each had 1 or 2 insane wins that I attribute to nVidia or AMD tailoring their drivers to do really well in Game X for benchmarks.

Price wise though, I don't know if one is better than the other. Since finding stable/good Prices for Mobile cards is kind of odd.

Here's the link to the website review I utilised earlier which finishes on the US$300 difference, and that was referring to the GTX680M and not the MX:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-GeForce-GTX-680M-vs-Radeon-HD-7970M.77110.0.html

forty2j · Oct 24, 2012

trip1ex said:
I guess you don't play a lot of games then.

Actually, I do. I think you're just underestimating my pain in Windows. I'm willing to pay a performance penalty for an overall greatly improved experience. I will boot camp for the rare instance there's a must-play title I can't get in OS X.

spcdust · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
I will boot camp for the rare instance there's a must-play title I can't get in OS X.

Of which there are many.

I always game in Windows (it's the only time I do boot up the Windows partition). The games are far more optimised for Windows drivers etc, and the price of a PC game is far cheaper than OSX games after their initial release (Steam Sales are great). I confess to not especially liking the Windows experience but if you're just gaming then it's fine.

Ryan.Tanner · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
Actually, I do. I think you're just underestimating my pain in Windows. I'm willing to pay a performance penalty for an overall greatly improved experience. I will boot camp for the rare instance there's a must-play title I can't get in OS X.

What this guy said. The performance sacrifice is better than using windows outside of the games. Sure, once a game is launched, windows is great. When a game isn't loaded, windows sucks for obvious navigation reasons.

All I mostly do is play World of Warcraft, which is a game that notoriously takes left cpu/gpu power than most 2012 games. I will pick up Guild Wars 2 because it now has a Mac beta client, but I highly doubt I will be playing it as religiously as I do play WoW.

List of games I play:
World of Warcraft (not gpu intensive)
Counter-Strike: GO (not gpu intensive)
Starcraft II (moderately gpu intensive, but I don't play RTS for graphics, I play for story)
Diablo III (haha, I played it, but the luster quickly died)

I think I will be good with the GTX 680 in the 27" iMac.

Dirtyharry50 · Oct 24, 2012

Real men game on Falcon Northwest computers such as this one I configured for myself. Note the price tag at the bottom but this is the real deal, no compromises. Unfortunately, it does not run OS X so you will of course need to purchase an appropriate Mac for your needs as well.

Here is your customized Mach V system configuration.

System Details

Chassis
ICON2 Exotix - Any Single Color
Chassis Logo Insert
White Light
Chassis Fan Kit
Performance Fan Pack
Sound Dampening
AcoustiPack Sound Dampening Foam
Power Supply
1500 Watt Modular
Motherboard
Rampage IV Extreme
Processor
Intel® Core™ i7 3960X 3.3GHz
Processor Cooler
Liquid Cooling - Mach V
Processor Overclock
No Processor Overclock
Memory
Elite 1866MHz 64GB (8x8GB)
Video Card
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 2
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 3
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Monitor
30" 2560x1600
Sound Card
On-Board Audio
Speakers
Z-523 2.1
Networking
On-Board Ethernet
Hard Drive
m4 SSD - 512GB
Hard Drive 2
m4 SSD - 512GB
Optical Drive
24x DVD Writer
64-Bit Operating System
Windows 8 Standard
Office Software
Office Professional 2010
Warranty
3 Year Warranty - Mach V

Shipping options

UPS Ground : $240.10
UPS 2-Day : $624.03
UPS Overnight : $966.24
USPS (APO Only) : $915.00
UPS 3 DAY : $366.00

Total System Price: $17140.75

This my friends is what a top of the line gaming PC costs not to be confused with something cobbled together with parts from newegg.com. This bad boy is a state of the art PC gaming rig.

Personally, I think the iMac is a better value given that it can also run games pretty well for most mere mortals and costs quite a bit less plus you don't need to buy another computer just to have a decent desktop operating system (OS X).

spcdust · Oct 24, 2012

Dirtyharry50 said:
Real men game on Falcon Northwest computers such as this one I configured for myself. Note the price tag at the bottom but this is the real deal, no compromises. Unfortunately, it does not run OS X so you will of course need to purchase an appropriate Mac for your needs as well.

Here is your customized Mach V system configuration.

System Details

Chassis
ICON2 Exotix - Any Single Color
Chassis Logo Insert
White Light
Chassis Fan Kit
Performance Fan Pack
Sound Dampening
AcoustiPack Sound Dampening Foam
Power Supply
1500 Watt Modular
Motherboard
Rampage IV Extreme
Processor
Intel® Core i7 3960X 3.3GHz
Processor Cooler
Liquid Cooling - Mach V
Processor Overclock
No Processor Overclock
Memory
Elite 1866MHz 64GB (8x8GB)
Video Card
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 2
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 3
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Monitor
30" 2560x1600
Sound Card
On-Board Audio
Speakers
Z-523 2.1
Networking
On-Board Ethernet
Hard Drive
m4 SSD - 512GB
Hard Drive 2
m4 SSD - 512GB
Optical Drive
24x DVD Writer
64-Bit Operating System
Windows 8 Standard
Office Software
Office Professional 2010
Warranty
3 Year Warranty - Mach V

Shipping options

UPS Ground : $240.10
UPS 2-Day : $624.03
UPS Overnight : $966.24
USPS (APO Only) : $915.00
UPS 3 DAY : $366.00

Total System Price: $17140.75

This my friends is what a top of the line gaming PC costs not to be confused with something cobbled together with parts from newegg.com. This bad boy is a state of the art PC gaming rig.

Personally, I think the iMac is a better value given that it can also run games pretty well for most mere mortals and costs quite a bit less plus you don't need to buy another computer just to have a decent desktop operating system (OS X).

Me thinks this might be a little overkill for the majority of gamers

50548 · Oct 24, 2012

boto said:
If you look at this spec sheet on Nvidia's website, you will notice the value of cuda cores is the same as the desktop version. This will ultimately make the iMac top of the line model a true gaming machine. Sure, Apple will probably underclock the settings, but it will perform somewhat equivalent to a desktop 680, which is a big deal in my opinion. I'm very surprised Apple would offer an even higher graphics card that just recently released, rather than using the GTX 680m, which we all expected.

I hope we see more details of this GPU. It would be interesting to see the benchmark comparison between this and the GTX 680m, although Nvidia claims it is up to 30% faster than the AMD 7970m so we can expect maybe 5~7 FPS game increases for intensive games like BF3. Nonetheless, it is incredible that Apple has figured out a way to manage a high-end GPU in such a slim design.

Nevermind: the IDIOTIC, IGNORANT Windows gamers infesting this forum will still say that this is "not good enough" or "not a desktop GPU, therefore it cannot be good".

As I've said elsewhere: the 680MX is, TODAY, the best mobile GPU money can buy, period. It is also among the top 10 of non-SLI GPUs (including desktop models), and MORE than enough for any modern game out there.

Heck, even my 6970M (the top option for the 2011 iMac) plays everything at native or at least 1080p resolutions with highest settings, from TF2 to L4D2, from CS:GO to The Witcher, from SC2 to Diablo III...but those kids still like to complain just because they can't get 1 extra fps to play.

forty2j · Oct 24, 2012

BRLawyer said:
Nevermind: the IDIOTIC, IGNORANT Windows gamers infesting this forum will still say that this is "not good enough" or "not a desktop GPU, therefore it cannot be good".

And I find this argument pretty laughable, to be honest. There is a HUGE market for gaming laptops. Lots of people get them instead of desktops. A top iMac (especially once you slot in the 680MX) will outperform almost any gaming laptop out there, with a much larger and higher quality screen, for about the same price.

karpich1 · Oct 24, 2012

Mr Rogers said:
Here's the link to the website review I utilised earlier which finishes on the US$300 difference, and that was referring to the GTX680M and not the MX:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-GeForce-GTX-680M-vs-Radeon-HD-7970M.77110.0.html

Ah, I didn't see the price section before and thought perhaps it was just from a ballpark Google Shopping search.

Yeh, a $300+ difference in the nVidia is a bit high considering the results. I mean, nVidia is just SLIGHTLY better on power consumption... but loses out on CAD (greatly) and games are close enough to be even. So I'd have expected similar prices.

And I realized it was just the M, that wasn't the apples-to-apples thing I meant

trip1ex · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
Actually, I do. I think you're just underestimating my pain in Windows. I'm willing to pay a performance penalty for an overall greatly improved experience. I will boot camp for the rare instance there's a must-play title I can't get in OS X.

No. I just read your post as you must not game on Windows then since it is so painful. But you do.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. You gotta game on Windows anyway and the games run better and you have more hardware choice and the hardware is cheaper. That's why gaming on an imac is for sadists.

I would love it if it weren't, but it is.

Mister Bumbo · Oct 24, 2012

People who play games or even game alot and might call themselves gamers do more things than just play games. If you're gonna argue that people buy computers "for gaming" tell them to get an Xbox - it's designed for that and nothing else. "Gamers" arent some exclusive race that just play games and nothing else.

I despise Windows so much that I can easily think to myself that 30% of the cost of the iMac is justified just for OS X. And I'm willing to pay more for less performance just because of that.

theSeb · Oct 24, 2012

Mister Bumbo said:
People who play games or even game alot and might call themselves gamers do more things than just play games. If you're gonna argue that people buy computers "for gaming" tell them to get an Xbox - it's designed for that and nothing else. "Gamers" arent some exclusive race that just play games and nothing else.

I despise Windows so much that I can easily think to myself that 30% of the cost of the iMac is justified just for OS X.

I do a lot of things on my computer. It's how I make money. I sometimes play games as well to relax. I didn't realise it was a crime to play games on Macs. Judging by the product pages, Apple thinks it's ok too.

Mister Bumbo · Oct 24, 2012

theSeb said:
Judging by the product pages, Apple thinks it's ok too.

Exactly!

Mr Rogers · Oct 24, 2012

karpich1 said:
Ah, I didn't see the price section before and thought perhaps it was just from a ballpark Google Shopping search.

Yeh, a $300+ difference in the nVidia is a bit high considering the results. I mean, nVidia is just SLIGHTLY better on power consumption... but loses out on CAD (greatly) and games are close enough to be even. So I'd have expected similar prices.

And I realized it was just the M, that wasn't the apples-to-apples thing I meant

No worries mate on this, just trying to help us all figure how much a top end 27in BTO will cost and this review did not make pretty reading - far from being anti-Apple, anti-iMac, I love my 27in i7 from 2011 and found the cost in Hong Kong with Educational Discount bloody excellent value - about US$2,100 in fact for what was then a top end computer period.

I'm unable to say this about the new iMac though and think we'll be looking at US$3,000 ball park for a decent specced i7 - just a shame about the optics.

Anyway, it'll will be interesting to see what AMD/ATI do next as far as mobile GPU's are concerned - just wish Apple at least gave us a choice of both chips, rather than moving to NVIDEA again with their far higher price points.

MagicThief83 · Oct 24, 2012

I really am underwhelmed by the 21.5" iMac! I don't see why Apple couldn't have made the GTX 680M, or hell even the GTX660M as BTOs. I really can't go for the beefed out 27" (not that I can't afford because I most certainly can!) but I'm not willing to spend over 3,000$ for it, and it's simply too big for my needs and desk space. The 21.5" would've been perfect had it contained a better GPU! I'm probably going to max out the 21.5" with 16GB of RAM, bump up the CPU to an i7, and get the 1TB fusion drive. Is the fusion drive 5400 rpm or 7200 rpm fused with SSD? Also, how do you guys think the GT 650M will handle today's games? I'm not a hardcore gamer but enjoy the casual game (borderlands 2, batman AA, max Payne 3) every now and then. I also bought dark souls recently and I wonder how that will run in Bootcamp on the new 21.5" iMac?

435713 · Oct 24, 2012

Dirtyharry50 said:
Real men game on Falcon Northwest computers such as this one I configured for myself. Note the price tag at the bottom but this is the real deal, no compromises. Unfortunately, it does not run OS X so you will of course need to purchase an appropriate Mac for your needs as well.

Here is your customized Mach V system configuration.

System Details

Chassis
ICON2 Exotix - Any Single Color
Chassis Logo Insert
White Light
Chassis Fan Kit
Performance Fan Pack
Sound Dampening
AcoustiPack Sound Dampening Foam
Power Supply
1500 Watt Modular
Motherboard
Rampage IV Extreme
Processor
Intel® Core i7 3960X 3.3GHz
Processor Cooler
Liquid Cooling - Mach V
Processor Overclock
No Processor Overclock
Memory
Elite 1866MHz 64GB (8x8GB)
Video Card
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 2
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Video Card 3
Quadro 6000 (6GB)
Monitor
30" 2560x1600
Sound Card
On-Board Audio
Speakers
Z-523 2.1
Networking
On-Board Ethernet
Hard Drive
m4 SSD - 512GB
Hard Drive 2
m4 SSD - 512GB
Optical Drive
24x DVD Writer
64-Bit Operating System
Windows 8 Standard
Office Software
Office Professional 2010
Warranty
3 Year Warranty - Mach V

Shipping options

UPS Ground : $240.10
UPS 2-Day : $624.03
UPS Overnight : $966.24
USPS (APO Only) : $915.00
UPS 3 DAY : $366.00

Total System Price: $17140.75

This my friends is what a top of the line gaming PC costs not to be confused with something cobbled together with parts from newegg.com. This bad boy is a state of the art PC gaming rig.

Personally, I think the iMac is a better value given that it can also run games pretty well for most mere mortals and costs quite a bit less plus you don't need to buy another computer just to have a decent desktop operating system (OS X).

Rendering some PIXAR stuff with that kind of muscle

If Ive saw one of those he would pass out from it being so fat. He has a complex you know.

----------

MagicThief83 said:
I really am underwhelmed by the 21.5" iMac! I don't see why Apple couldn't have made the GTX 680M, or hell even the GTX660M as BTOs.

They always put the good stuff at 2k price ranges. 660m would have been nice in there for sure.

lixuelai · Oct 24, 2012

Even though the 680MX has the same # of shaders etc as the desktop GTX680, I doubt it will be nearly as good. The core clock is severely gimped and the memory clock even more so. The main issue with Kepler is the memory bandwidth. GK104 was designed as the mid end with GK110 as the high end however GK110 was canceled due to yields. So Nvidia's current high end is using a 256bit bus vs 384bit for AMD. Anyway I would expect performance to be on par with a desktop HD7870 or GTX660TI (which is still quite good). No way the 680MX is going to beat the desktop GTX670. The GTX670 is like 10% slower than the GTX680 and the downclocking on the 680MX is way more than 10%.

Foxer · Oct 24, 2012

OK, I feel kind of dumb, but what the hey...

I am going to buy a new iMac, on which I will "game." By "game" I mean Civilization V - which I understand to be "demanding" in terms of specs - and probably the new Simcity next year. Nothing more complex, but I want them to run smoothly.

So, my choices are the 2011 iMac with the 3.4 i7 and the 1 GB GPU for around $1700 or the new 3.4 i7 iMac with the upgraded GPU for (I am guessing here, obviously), around $2400.

With those needs, will there be a sufficient preformance boost to justify the wait and extra cash?

forty2j · Oct 24, 2012

Foxer said:
OK, I feel kind of dumb, but what the hey...

I am going to buy a new iMac, on which I will "game." By "game" I mean Civilization V - which I understand to be "demanding" in terms of specs - and probably the new Simcity next year. Nothing more complex, but I want them to run smoothly.

So, my choices are the 2011 iMac with the 3.4 i7 and the 1 GB GPU for around $1700 or the new 3.4 i7 iMac with the upgraded GPU for (I am guessing here, obviously), around $2400.

With those needs, will there be a sufficient preformance boost to justify the wait and extra cash?

For gaming, save the money on the i7; you don't need that much CPU. You'll be much happier on the 2012 upgraded GPU.

lixuelai · Oct 24, 2012

Foxer said:
OK, I feel kind of dumb, but what the hey...

I am going to buy a new iMac, on which I will "game." By "game" I mean Civilization V - which I understand to be "demanding" in terms of specs - and probably the new Simcity next year. Nothing more complex, but I want them to run smoothly.

So, my choices are the 2011 iMac with the 3.4 i7 and the 1 GB GPU for around $1700 or the new 3.4 i7 iMac with the upgraded GPU for (I am guessing here, obviously), around $2400.

With those needs, will there be a sufficient preformance boost to justify the wait and extra cash?

The 2011 should be fine for your needs if you don't require all the settings on the highest. I play Civ5 across a whole range of hardware and it performs pretty well across the board. That said you can probably get it for even cheaper once the 2012 starts shipping. A lot of people will be looking to upgrade whether they need it or not.

iKnackwurst · Oct 24, 2012

forty2j said:
For gaming, save the money on the i7; you don't need that much CPU. You'll be much happier on the 2012 upgraded GPU.

Are there even any big benefits for the normal home user to get the CPU upgrade for the 27"? Would it extend the lifetime of the iMac?

GTX 680MX is practically a Desktop 680

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