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Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
I agree the 13" is overpriced, but I couldn't care less that it has integrated graphics. It should just be cheaper. The vast majority of people don't need a dedicated GPU - including many of those complaining, I bet. If you really do need it, get the 15".

Also, why is anyone at all surprised by this? The 13" has NEVER been a Pro machine. There haven't been discrete graphics on the 13" since forever. Are you all new to Apple or something?
Yeah, the 13" unibody used to be called MacBook and was just a deluxe version of the plastic ones, they changed the name to MacBook Pro for uniformity more than anything else. If you're a creative pro working on that cramped little thing, congrats for having customers who are willing to pay for the extra hours you spend toggling tool panels and scrolling.
 

nutjob

macrumors 65816
Feb 7, 2010
1,030
508
I was disappointed as well when I heard that. But then I saw the Verge's hands-on and was pretty impressed. They ran a multitrack Garageband file, streamed a 1080p Iron Man 3 trailer, and panned around a 21 megapixel RAW photo in Aperture and it didn't even stutter.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/10/23/3540614/13-inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-hands-on

At the end of the day, I want smoothness, responsiveness and quickness - not specs. Then again, benchmarks put the 15-inch Retina (with quad-core processors and discrete GPU) at a 40-50% advantage quantitatively. I've got some hard soul-searching to do.

Keep in mind that all those applications are Retina native and so have better performance than those that are not.
 

Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
Lol.

Nothing has changed. They are following Steve's play book exactly.
Steve didn't just follow a play book, he also followed his... call it what you will, gut, intuition, EQ, that whole "I'll know it when I see it" thing. Adaptation is the essence of intelligence. Steve had a map AND a compass. IQ and EQ. If you just follow a map blindly you'll become one of those guys who drive into a lake because the GPS said there's a road there. Does Tim Cook have a Steve-like compass? I doubt it.
 

435713

macrumors 6502a
May 19, 2010
834
153
Lol.

Nothing has changed. They are following Steve's play book exactly. Were you all not paying attention during the last 5 years or something? Apple hardware has always been overpriced and underpowered. Despite that, it usually is much nicer to use and much nicer looking. Apple had also always crippled the 13" MBP, under the almighty Steve as well. Or did the 2009, 2010 and 2012 13" MBPs have discrete chips and I'm just forgetting?

I was paying attention. Just pointing out that I agree with the poster I quoted that I believe his leadership for their style of doing things more than likely is better. Of course there is the other thought that this is all been laid out anyway cause the prices and hardware specs being what they are is very familiar obviously.

Wasn't crazy about the dude personally, but I got to respect the accomplishments. I think Apple works better with a person a little nutty.
 
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illegalprelude

macrumors 68000
Mar 10, 2005
1,583
120
Los Angeles, California
I think the issue here seems to be that many are equating pro with meaning a film director. There are a lot of other "pro" users out there who access things like video and photos (like a social media consultant) who don't need a dedicated chip.

Now should a $1,700 laptop come with a dedicated card is a different question but to assume those who own a 13-inch MBP are somehow not pro users or that a "pro" user can't get by with a 13 MBP is a bit silly.
 

MacHiavelli

macrumors 65816
May 17, 2007
1,253
913
new york
Seems like the MacBook Pro is the old MacBook.

Apple's product offering has got really muddled over the last year or so: feels like the company lacks clarity of vision.
 

carlemil

macrumors member
Dec 7, 2010
51
0
Copenhagen, Denmark
Right, because you cannot edit video or drive a couple of displays with the Intel 4000? :rolleyes: Let me guess, you are a "pro" gamer?

If you can update the CPU to an i7 quad core, that is all you really need.

Show me a laptop with the resolution of the 13" MBP let alone the 15" model made by any other company. I'm waiting.

Seriously, you can edit 2K video with ease on either the 13" or 15" model and the latter can display close to 3K resolution giving you a pretty good idea of what 4K video will look like.

For non-gaming, the CPU, memory bandwidth and I/O speed is more of a factor than discrete graphics.

@KPOM: Don't mind Mr. Dee. He thinks that he needs discreet graphics to post faster to facebook. :p

Excactly. Even though upgrading to a dedicated GPU should be an option, the Intel 4000 isn't as bad as some make it to. It really comes down to what kind of "pro" work you need to be done (of course :p). A lot of photography (aperture, photoshop etc.) and music composing (logic, ableton, pro tools) should be easy for the Intel HD 4000. Even basic editing in FCP shouldn't be to much of a hassle. And no matter what: An i7 with ssd? Thats a blazing fast machine. Are you editing 4K and RED footage, processing multiple RAW photos at the same time etc. you would want a dedicated GPU, but in that case you would also want a 15" anyways.
 
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LillieDesigns

macrumors 6502
Oct 18, 2005
323
56
Los Angeles
I'm really not trying to be an Apple downer right now, but I'm beginning to realize my views are changing regarding the company I once adored. I remember there was a period of time I wanted everything Apple released - be it an iPod, iMac, Macbook or whatever - I'd think about the new stuff constantly until I could save up for it. The iMac looks the same but is thinner, they gimped the MBP & the iPad mini is just...smaller. I'm not blaming Tim Cook either -- this started towards the end of Steve's reign (although Tim was interim CEO at the time) -- it's bigger than just one person's decisions. This commercial just reaffirms my recent sentiments...stuff feels stale and it bums me out :(
 

ezatech

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2011
24
0
This commercial just reaffirms my recent sentiments...stuff feels stale and it bums me out :(

Agreed. I think the campaigns are feeling a little cliche now. I guess they tried with the 'genius' ad. That was horrible. So they reverted.
 

nick_elt

macrumors 68000
Oct 28, 2011
1,578
0
When did apple ever make gaming laptops? Not sure why running games on a laptop is even thought about. Surely xbox/ps3 or a gaming station is where the gamers are at. And for apple gamers yeh it runs angry birds fine.

----------

For theses other "pros" why are you getting a 13" to do heavy editing. Sounds strange to me. Im sure for the people who buy the retina mbp 13" the intel 4000 will cope just fine.

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me to .. or please just remove "pro" from it

Why? Does it confuse you if you are really a "pro"

----------

Seems like the MacBook Pro is the old MacBook.

Apple's product offering has got really muddled over the last year or so: feels like the company lacks clarity of vision.

Damn I wish my old macbook was anything like this.

----------

Moaners, moaners, all I see is moaners.

You have a choice ppl to buy this or not.

----------

Have a look at the verges hands on to see whats its capable of and ask yourself "do I need more?"
 

oxfordguy

macrumors 6502a
Feb 27, 2008
503
4
Oxford, England
I'd love a Pro 13" machine (dedicated GPU, or with an integrated GPU that is as good as a dedicated GPU, Quad Core CPU), unfortunately this is not it, but probably is not possible with currently available architecture. Think will see something more interesting with Haswell chipset in 2014, though. For now am sticking with my 2Ghz i7/8 GB RAM/256 GB SSD MBA...
 

ghost187

macrumors 6502a
Mar 18, 2010
965
2,042
Honestly I can see apple simplifying their laptop line up in a few years to 2 products. Macbook Air 13 & rMacbook Pro 15. How? With displays that have nearly no bezel (like Izgo displays). They can argue 13 inch is now as small as an 11 inch, and 15 is nearly as small as a 13 inch.
 

antic

macrumors regular
Mar 3, 2007
100
10
Just thought I'd check out the prices for the new 13" Macbook pro with Retina screen on the UK web site. I think they have lost the plot a bit with regards to their pricing structure.

Unless your specifically looking for a smaller device you would be crazy to choose the 13" over the 15" model for only £100 more

13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
256GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)2
In Stock
Free Delivery
£1,699.00

15-inch: 2.3GHz
with Retina display
2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
256GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory
Built-in battery (7 hours)2
In Stock
Free Delivery
£1,799.00
 

odedia

macrumors 65816
Nov 24, 2005
1,043
149
Someone's gonna get hammered for not adding "Sequences shortened" in the end :).
 

adder7712

macrumors 68000
Mar 9, 2009
1,923
1
Canada
Just thought I'd check out the prices for the new 13" Macbook pro with Retina screen on the UK web site. I think they have lost the plot a bit with regards to their pricing structure.

Unless your specifically looking for a smaller device you would be crazy to choose the 13" over the 15" model for only £100 more

13-inch: 2.5GHz
with Retina display
2.5GHz dual-core Intel Core i5
Turbo Boost up to 3.1GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
256GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
Built-in battery (7 hours)2
In Stock
Free Delivery
£1,699.00

15-inch: 2.3GHz
with Retina display
2.3GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
Turbo Boost up to 3.3GHz
8GB 1600MHz memory
256GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M with 1GB of GDDR5 memory
Built-in battery (7 hours)2
In Stock
Free Delivery
£1,799.00
My thoughts exactly.
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Right, because you cannot edit video or drive a couple of displays with the Intel 4000? :rolleyes: Let me guess, you are a "pro" gamer?

What's a "pro" gamer? Someone who hasn't got any other job?

When fanboys start complaining about Apple. You know something is not quite right behind closed doors.

You're talking about fanboys with problems in their marriage?

I suppose by now you all figured out that this constant moaning and whining gets on my nerves. Right now, a Retina display is a luxury item that you can only get from one computer maker, and it is priced as a luxury item.


Apple hardware has always been overpriced and underpowered. Despite that, it usually is much nicer to use and much nicer looking. Apple had also always crippled the 13" MBP, under the almighty Steve as well.

Underpowered? Last time I looked, Dell doesn't sell any quad core laptops for less than the 13" Retina MBP. Please guys, come back to reality.
 
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eltaurus

macrumors regular
Oct 23, 2012
155
5
Why? Does it confuse you if you are really a "pro"

:D nah ... I am asking it for the sake of common people who think its a "PRO" laptop which will perform better then non-PRO laptop ..
 
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Anuba

macrumors 68040
Feb 9, 2005
3,790
393
Gimme a 17 inch retina then we're talking.
I have the MBP 17", a great machine but very top heavy to the point where if you push the display all the way back, it nearly lifts the base off the table. On a Retina version without optical drive the base would probably be so light and wafer thin that the display would be able to grab the base by the arm and send it whoosing into space.
 

a0me

macrumors 65816
Oct 5, 2006
1,074
166
Tokyo, Japan
I doubt the next generation will have dedicated graphics. Apple is trying to push discrete graphics fairly strong, and eventually it will be able to keep up with dedicated but today they are weening us too soon. I don't really like the whole mindset Apple seems to have gotten however that customers should be treated as beta testers working out all the kinks. The non retina MBP 13" and MBA is fine for integrated graphics as long as you aren't a gamer, and it's actually better than what they used before that but I just can't see the retina doing well with that at all. And it's such an expensive computer it should have very good graphics performance.
FYI: Discrete video card=dedicated video card. Example: NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M
Integrated video card. Example: Intel HD Graphics 4000
 

mixel

macrumors 68000
Jan 12, 2006
1,729
976
Leeds, UK
Imagine the gaming benchmarks at its native resolution. Ouch. I want to see videos (a slideshow would work) of that. :D
 
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