Hurricane Sandy - The Perfect Storm...Part Deux

maflynn said:

I can't answer for NY, but here in Mass they would since there's a law that there's a minimum number of school days the students must have, so if you use up a number of them in the fall, regardless of whether its a declared emergency or not, it counts.

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Its the same thing heRe but if a state of emergency is declared they don't count the scheduled days missed against the 180 day school year. Btw its not a law it has to do with the amount of federal funding the school distric gets. If you only have 179 school days the district only gets 179/180 percent of the the funding, which adds up to quite a bit.

Interesting factoid: apparently, the HMS Bounty fatality was a descendant of Fletcher Christian, the man who led the original mutiny.

Sydde said:

Interesting factoid: apparently, the HMS Bounty fatality was a descendant of Fletcher Christian, the man who led the original mutiny.

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THAT. Is bizarre..

More weirdness: here is a video of Mayor Bloomberg delivering advisories to New Yorkers. Listen to his rather flat, almost deadpan speech while you watch the ASL interpreter on the left.

video link

truth-in-photography checkers at The Atlantic.

The team at The Atlantic are delving into the question about how true photographs can be, and what kind of true.

einmusiker said:

Its the same thing heRe but if a state of emergency is declared they don't count the scheduled days missed against the 180 day school year. Btw its not a law it has to do with the amount of federal funding the school distric gets. If you only have 179 school days the district only gets 179/180 percent of the the funding, which adds up to quite a bit.

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Here in PA this also applies, however the schools aren't automatically exempt from the 180 day requirement. The district has to go through an appeal process which is time consuming, so many just suck it up and make up the days. Happened a few years ago when Pittsburgh got slammed with 3 feet of snow after all the weather people only predicted 2-4 inches.

We definitely dodged a bullet here in Pittsburgh. We are supposed to have rain every day (100% chance) until Saturday, but we haven't got as much rain as we were supposed to at this point. The winds weren't very strong either. Trees down here and there, but that happens during every spring storm in the area, so it's nothing new. I've seen worse storms in the spring than what happened yesterday and today.

einmusiker said:

nice. it seems like the Island can take a beating, and apparently against the odds. Everyone I speak to about it says that it's location in the east river and how low lying it is a recipe for disaster

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it was very close. the northern part is lower on the water and there was some damage at the octagon's basement.
the goldwater-north was a couple feet from being flooded i think. but main street and southtown are a few feet higher so there is some more buffer there.

but the problem is that if it did get worse, then with subway and tram closed and the bridge blocked by winds it would be completely isolated.
they really should build a pedestrian connection to manhattan.

joepunk said:

truth-in-photography checkers at The Atlantic.

The team at The Atlantic are delving into the question about how true photographs can be, and what kind of true.

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I could of sworn the one with the cat at the very end was real!

well they canceled school the rest of the week. They declared a state of emergency in the county so I'm hoping they don't count all of the towards snow days. I have 5 more days off but nothing really to do. Can't really go into the city. Can't really travel anywhere really. I already helped friends and family in Brooklyn and Manhattan everyone is fine now. I'd honestly rather be working than just sitting around hanging out.

Some notable statistics, compiled by Dr. Jeff Masters:

Death toll: 160 (88 in the U.S., 54 in Haiti, 11 in Cuba)

Damage estimates: $10 - $55 billion

Power outages: 8.5 million U.S. customers, 2nd most for a natural disaster behind the 1993 blizzard (10 million)

Maximum U.S. sustained winds: 69 mph at Westerly, RI

Peak U.S. wind gusts: 90 mph at Islip, NY and Tompkinsville, NJ

Maximum U.S. storm surge: 9.45', Bergen Point, NJ 9:24 pm EDT October 29, 2012

Maximum U.S. Storm Tide: 14.60', Bergen Point, NJ, 9:24 pm EDT October 29, 2012

Maximum significant wave height: 33.1' at the buoy east of Cape Hatteras, NC (2nd highest: 32.5' at the Entrance to New York Harbor)

Maximum U.S. rainfall: 12.55", Easton, MD

Maximum snowfall: 36", Richwood, WV

Minimum pressure: 945.5 mb, Atlantic City, NJ at 7:24 pm EST, October 29, 2012. This is the lowest pressure measured in the U.S., at any location north of Cape Hatteras, NC (previous record: 946 mb in the 1938 hurricane on Long Island, NY)

Destructive potential of storm surge: 5.8 on a scale of 0 to 6, highest of any hurricane observed since 1969. Previous record: 5.6 on a scale of 0 to 6, set during Hurricane Isabel of 2003.

Diameter of tropical storm-force winds at landfall: 945 miles

Diameter of ocean with 12' seas at landfall: 1500 miles

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the real problem is that even areas that had relatively little direct damage from the storm, are in shambles because of the shortages of electricity and water and the difficulty in replenish stocks in stores.

hopefully there will be lesson learned from this and our government (local,state and federal) will act so next time it will not be such a disater.

- assume that this is the 'new normal' with big storms coming up twice a decade and prepare for that.

- it is 2012, not 1912, put all the figgin' utilities in the ground already. enough of the telegraph posts and one tree branch taking out power for hundreds of homes.
there is no reasons power lines should be aerial except -maybe- the last connection from the grid to the house. same with cable and phone lines.
If necessary, give federal reconstruction grants for the conversion. that will put more people to work and improve the overall infrastructure.
and next time all efforts can go where the direct damage occurred, and not diluted, well everywhere.

- recognize some areas are not appropriate for housing: retransform most of beach community into parks.

- seawalls. An extra 3 feet seawall would have been sufficient in most areas, would have cost a few millions and saved billions. they don't even have to be permanent. with today's tech you can have walls that are raised for the occasion.
Again, use federal money for them: the cost of this disaster is going to affect the entire nation economically.

remember, this was a cat 1 storm. what if next time is a cat 3-4?

- it is 2012, not 1912, put all the figgin' utilities in the ground already. enough of the telegraph posts and one tree branch taking out power for hundreds of homes.
there is no reasons power lines should be aerial except -maybe- the last connection from the grid to the house. same with cable and phone lines.

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Agreed that all new construction should include underground utilities. Problem with existing development is that there are water, sewer and gas lines already underground and new easements would have to be obtained. At least so says my own electric co.

A few million for a 3 ft. seawall? Wouldn't be very long.

Don't panic said:

the real problem is that even areas that had relatively little direct damage from the storm, are in shambles because of the shortages of electricity and water and the difficulty in replenish stocks in stores.

hopefully there will be lesson learned from this and our government (local,state and federal) will act so next time it will not be such a disater.

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What are they supposed to do? You can't do anything. It's not like you can just build sturdy power lines or something in a weeks notice. The government did about all they could, including rescuing people and acting immediately when they could.

Don't panic said:

the real problem is that even areas that had relatively little direct damage from the storm, are in shambles because of the shortages of electricity and water and the difficulty in replenish stocks in stores.

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IMO, if more people had the recommended basic disaster kit (which includes a minimum of 3 days of water/food) ready BEFORE the storm, there would have been less panic immediately following the storm.

My guess is because Sandy was "only" a Category One storm made a lot of people think that it would be a non-event, like so many other Category One storms that have quickly whizzed by the east coast in years before.

It was disappointing and saddening to me to see so many people in a state of utter panic regarding food and water, when it hadn't even been 24 hours since the storm had passed.

From driving around and looking at the gas lines I'm starting to get nervous about a gas shortage. hope it's better by Monday. Work starts up again next week and who knows where in god name they will send me.

puckhead193 said:

From driving around and looking at the gas lines I'm starting to get nervous about a gas shortage. hope it's better by Monday. Work starts up again next week and who knows where in god name they will send me.

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Don't know if there's one near you, but apparently the gov't has setup "mobile gas stations" and is giving away free gas (10 gallons) in some areas of NY/NJ.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/252846/175/Emergency-Mobile-Gas-Station-Up-And-Running-In-NY-NJ

The article also says that 28 million gallons of gas was expected to arrive in the area over the weekend.

aristobrat said:

Don't know if there's one near you, but apparently the gov't has setup "mobile gas stations" and is giving away free gas (10 gallons) in some areas of NY/NJ.

http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/252846/175/Emergency-Mobile-Gas-Station-Up-And-Running-In-NY-NJ

The article also says that 28 million gallons of gas was expected to arrive in the area over the weekend.

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Free gas can imagine how crazy people will be they are already going nuts, imagine free gas

aristobrat said:

It was disappointing and saddening to me to see so many people in a state of utter panic regarding food and water, when it hadn't even been 24 hours since the storm had passed.

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I agree. This is a major disaster. Some of the people the news put on the air (they always find them) seemed to think that all problems everywhere should be addressed simultaneously by the same agency(ies). It's gonna take time! Be realistic, be ready.

Aspasia said:

Agreed that all new construction should include underground utilities. Problem with existing development is that there are water, sewer and gas lines already underground and new easements would have to be obtained. At least so says my own electric co.

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then they should obtain them.
i know plenty of people on long island still without energy. the only issue there was wind, and not roof-toppling winds, just strong winds.
but strong enough to topple trees or brake tree branches that took down main power lines.
if those lines were underground, as they should, they would be fine and all the resources ould be sent where the direct damage was.

Gregg2 said:

A few million for a 3 ft. seawall? Would be very long.

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there would be a lot of places that would need/benefit from new or better seawalls. it's a long coast.

chown33 said:

With 3-4 cats, we'd all be doooooommmed:
(image)

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LOL

eric/ said:

What are they supposed to do? You can't do anything. It's not like you can just build sturdy power lines or something in a weeks notice. The government did about all they could, including rescuing people and acting immediately when they could.

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no , they can't built in a week notice, but can built them (put them underground) in a year or two year's notice.
i am not contesting the gov response, I am saying it's time we become proactive and invest in the infrastructure that is needed so power doesn't go away at every storm.
this is nothig new. every single storm this long power outages occurr.
this time is worse because the affected aras was so vast, that it dilutes the efforts to fix the problems.

aristobrat said:

IMO, if more people had the recommended basic disaster kit (which includes a minimum of 3 days of water/food) ready BEFORE the storm, there would have been less panic immediately following the storm.

My guess is because Sandy was "only" a Category One storm made a lot of people think that it would be a non-event, like so many other Category One storms that have quickly whizzed by the east coast in years before.

It was disappointing and saddening to me to see so many people in a state of utter panic regarding food and water, when it hadn't even been 24 hours since the storm had passed.

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i actually think people behaved remarkably well overall after the storm with very little panic and very mature behavior. there have been some tensions, but most people have been incredibly patient and reliant

Don't panic said:

then they should obtain them.
i know plenty of people on long island still without energy. the only issue there was wind, and not roof-toppling winds, just strong winds.
but strong enough to topple trees or brake tree branches that took down main power lines.
if those lines were underground, as they should, they would be fine and all the resources ould be sent where the direct damage was.


there would be a lot of places that would need/benefit from new or better seawalls. it's a long coast.

LOL

no , they can't built in a week notice, but can built them (put them underground) in a year or two year's notice. i am not contesting the gov response, I am saying it's time we become proactive and invest in the infrastructure that is needed so power doesn't go away at every storm.
this is nothig new. every single storm thislong power outges occurr. this time is worse because the affected aras was so vast, that it dilutes the efforts to fix the problems.


i actually think people behaved remarkably well overall after the storm with very little panic and very mature behavior. there have been some tensions, but most people have been incredibly patient and reliant

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I would think part of the problem in burying the lines is the water table. Plus the population is so compacted there where is there room to dig new trenches.

MacNut said:

I would think part of the problem in burying the lines is the water table.

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I know that the high water table is a reason why utilities aren't buried here in Va Beach, at least not within a few miles of the shore.

The main power lines here are on huge concrete/metal towers, much higher than the tree line. For the lines that run along the street, the power company regularly trims back trees/branches that have the potential to fall on them.

We get way more storms than NJ/NY do, and while it's not usual to see some power outages, I can't recall a time where street after street after street had lines down (like up there, currently).

Don't panic said:

there would be a lot of places that would need/benefit from new or better seawalls. it's a long coast.

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I fixed my original post. I meant to say a seawall wouldn't be very long for that much money.

Gregg2 said:

I fixed my original post. I meant to say a seawall wouldn't be very long for that much money.

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ok, that makes more sense.
i don't know exactly how much they would cost, but obviously places can be prioritized based on likelyhood/extent of surges, existing infrastructure an quantity of people affected.

as far as the water table, i think it's a not the primary issue. i am not saying it's not there, but there are plenty of technical solutions already available. ata cost, of course.
I mean, the US is not the only developed country with a coastline and/or a high water table, but in most other places (i am thinking europe mostly), this is not an issue. and population density is higher then here.