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Old Nov 1, 2012, 10:48 PM   #76
vega07
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Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose View Post
I don't watch FOX, nor CNN. Don't have cable. All I watch are the free over the air TV channels: PBS, a religious channel, 2, 11, 13, and 7 (no cable news for me. I am too cheap).
If Benghazi did not occur during the election cycle, the commotion would not be this loud. A lot of this drama was manufactured by Romney and the right, which put this story under the angry radar of many conservatives. Exhibit A: Romney's press conference while the event was unfolding to criticize the President.

In an embassy attack where 4 people die, you want to obtain all the intel you can before making any conclusions. Jumping to any conclusion before getting the entire picture is utterly foolish and especially not fair to the families involved. New details were emerging everyday and the story was changing so often during the first 2-3 weeks. For instance, there was so much coverage about the YouTube video being the cause of the attacks, leading people to think it was the video. Then, of course, we learned that it wasn't the video. The right took advantage of the volatility of the situation to blame Obama for being soft, not calling it a terrorist attack, etc. I was always under the impression that the right was fishing for any criticism they could think of.

Investigations require time, and even more so for very sensitive events like Benghazi.

ETA: Can someone explain why the right was so focused on the "act of terror" aspect? Why does it matter if the President calls it a terrorist attack one week after vs. two weeks after? I can understand the argument if he calls it a terrorist attack 2-3 months down the line, but considering the very volatile nature of this event, how do 1-2 weeks make a difference? And not to mention, it was obviously a terrorist attack. I didn't need the President to tell me this.

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Old Nov 1, 2012, 11:05 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by vega07 View Post
If Benghazi did not occur during the election cycle, the commotion would not be this loud. A lot of this drama was manufactured by Romney and the right, which put this story under the angry radar of many conservatives. Exhibit A: Romney's press conference while the event was unfolding to criticize the President.

In an embassy attack where 4 people die, you want to obtain all the intel you can before making any conclusions. Jumping to any conclusion before getting the entire picture is utterly foolish and especially not fair to the families involved. New details were emerging everyday and the story was changing so often during the first 2-3 weeks. For instance, there was so much coverage about the YouTube video being the cause of the attacks, leading people to think it was the video. Then, of course, we learned that it wasn't the video. The right took advantage of the volatility of the situation to blame Obama for being soft, not calling it a terrorist attack, etc. I was always under the impression that the right was fishing for any criticism they could think of.

Investigations require time, and even more so for very sensitive events like Benghazi.

ETA: Can someone explain why the right was so focused on the "act of terror" aspect? Why does it matter if the President calls it a terrorist attack one week after vs. two weeks after? I can understand the argument if he calls it a terrorist attack 2-3 months down the line, but considering the very volatile nature of this event, how do 1-2 weeks make a difference? And not to mention, it was obviously a terrorist attack. I didn't need the President to tell me this.
The problem I see is that Libya's new leaders explained on the Arab news that it was a terrorist attack the day after the Americans were killed.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 11:13 PM   #78
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The problem I see is that Libya's new leaders explained on the Arab news that it was a terrorist attack the day after the Americans were killed.

He did call it a terrorist attack the day after the attacks. Read the transcript from the Rose Garden. There is no ambiguity. The subject of the speech was about Benghazi. He was there to talk about Benghazi. The right's claim that he was speaking in generalities is again, fishing for nothing.

Assuming that Obama did not call it a terrorist attack, what is your point?

What exactly is being covered up?
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 11:32 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose View Post
The problem I see is that Libya's new leaders explained on the Arab news that it was a terrorist attack the day after the Americans were killed.
Correct, the problem is Obama and his peeps kept blaming a pathetic video. What’s to hide?

AlaskMoose, you have people here on this forum that think this Terrorist attack is not a BIG deal. Don't get fooled by them. It's a HUGE deal. When you have a Commander and Chief lie over and over about it, it then becomes a bigger deal. Americans want the truth. The families of the men that died want answers. It's sad Obama keeps running from it to protect his re-election. If this happened under President George W Bush and he lied and ran from this attack like Obama is doing, the Libs/Dems here will be screaming for answers and the truth.
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Old Nov 1, 2012, 11:39 PM   #80
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Correct, the problem is Obama and his peeps kept blaming a pathetic video. What’s to hide?

AlaskMoose, you have people here on this forum that think this Terrorist attack is not a BIG deal. Don't get fooled by them. It's a HUGE deal. When you have a Commander and Chief lie over and over about it, it then becomes a bigger deal. Americans want the truth. The families of the men that died want answers. It's sad Obama keeps running from it to protect his re-election. If this happened under President George W Bush and he lied and ran from this attack like Obama is doing, the Libs/Dems here will be screaming for answers and the truth.
1. Please describe exactly how Obama lied over and over again. You sure love hyperboles.

2. We don't care? FOUR AMERICANS DIED. OF COURSE WE CARE. But the extreme lengths the right is taking to politicize this tragedy makes me question whether they really care.

3. Early intel gathered suggested that the attacks were based on the video, and therefore it was mentioned. It is expected that early info cannot represent the entire picture, and can sometimes even be wrong.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 12:04 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by vega07 View Post
1. Please describe exactly how Obama lied over and over again. You sure love hyperboles.

2. We don't care? FOUR AMERICANS DIED. OF COURSE WE CARE. But the extreme lengths the right is taking to politicize this tragedy makes me question whether they really care.

3. Early intel gathered suggested that the attacks were based on the video, and therefore it was mentioned. It is expected that early info cannot represent the entire picture, and can sometimes even be wrong.
vega07, Is it really hard to look at the time line and BS Obama and his Admin were addressing us till the 14th day of officially calling it a Terrorist attack? You will ignore his lies and look past this horrific problem since you’re supporting him for president. Answer me this... Why won’t Obama address the nation about what really happened on Sep 11th? Is it that hard? Do you really think Obama thought the attack was from a video in the beginning? If so, you’re defiantly not worth my time on arguing about this issue. Obama is wrong and he's hiding the truth. Anything for re election. Simply Pathetic.

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Because outside the Fox news crowd, the average person just doesn't care about this issue.
The truth is, You dont care.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 12:59 AM   #82
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vega07, Is it really hard to look at the time line and BS Obama and his Admin were addressing us till the 14th day of officially calling it a Terrorist attack? You will ignore his lies and look past this horrific problem since you’re supporting him for president. Answer me this... Why won’t Obama address the nation about what really happened on Sep 11th? Is it that hard? Do you really think Obama thought the attack was from a video in the beginning? If so, you’re defiantly not worth my time on arguing about this issue. Obama is wrong and he's hiding the truth. Anything for re election. Simply Pathetic.



The truth is, You dont care.
I've read the timeline. The intelligence community initially thought it was related to the video due to Cairo. You can think whatever you want considering your ulterior motive to find fault, but this is fact, and this is what was widely reported for a while.

I don't know why I even respond to you. Your posts are full of hyperboles and exaggerations. It's very hard to take you seriously. The points you make lack any substance.

I don't understand the right pushing the White House for every detail. There is reason to withhold information when necessary. You DO NOT blurt everything to the public when information becomes available. New details are emerging everyday. What exactly do you want Obama to say to the public anyway when the investigation is still going on? Do you expect leaders of any company or country to make official statements and conclusions before a full investigation or report is done?

This is will be my last post about this issue. It's very, very clear to me that the right wants to find some fault with Obama to reduce his chance of re-election and what the left wants is simply a full investigation before placing any blame.

If there is a cover-up, you can expect me to criticize the WH and Obama.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 01:10 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Vanilla Ice View Post
Correct, the problem is Obama and his peeps kept blaming a pathetic video. What’s to hide?
This is a lie. It's not true. You repeating it over again and again doesn't make it true. It just makes you look crazy.


I bet you can't find a single clip or quote from President Obama where he blames the youtube video. Prove it or it didn't happen.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:02 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by vega07 View Post

Assuming that Obama did not call it a terrorist attack, what is your point?

What exactly is being covered up?
That Obama didn't want Americans to know it was a terrorist attack.

Because, of course, he was complicit in it.

Because he's secretly a Muslim terrorist himself.

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Old Nov 2, 2012, 03:44 AM   #85
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This is a lie. It's not true. You repeating it over again and again doesn't make it true. It just makes you look crazy.


I bet you can't find a single clip or quote from President Obama where he blames the youtube video. Prove it or it didn't happen.
I understand people here hate Fox News. We can agree though that Cameras DON'T LIE. Zioxide, watch this video. If you refuse to watch it because its "Fox News" then you're also not worth my time arguing about this issue. If you watch the video, you will hear/see Obama blaming a YouTube video multiple times about the attack

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=r...&v=pbwgZIkbxL8

These 4 part videos that you can watch if you choose back up my reasons of why Obama and his administration are a bunch of flip flop, lying, secretive group of people that are hiding the truth of 4 American deaths.

Part 1
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=-oItYw1kJcU

Part 2
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=F4pQSH-SyYw

Part 3
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=j_3slF7Xw5w

Part 4
http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=1sP1lQPhUSo
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Last edited by Vanilla Ice; Nov 2, 2012 at 03:52 AM.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:03 AM   #86
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I understand people here hate Fox News. We can agree though that Cameras DON'T LIE. Zioxide, watch this video. If you refuse to watch it because its "Fox News" then you're also not worth my time arguing about this issue. If you watch the video, you will hear/see Obama blaming a YouTube video multiple times about the attack
Thanks for wasting 18 minutes of my life. Cameras don't like, but video editing can. You can take a bunch of small clips from different statements, completely ignoring the context of the rest of these addresses, and put them together to make it say just about anything. Hell, I've done it before in one of the media literacy classes I took. It doesn't make it true.

I've seen the full videos of every clip they used with President Obama in that video. He said it was a terrorist attack from day one. He said there will be an investigation, which is ongoing, to see what happened, and that justice will be done. There's no reason to doubt him here because he's followed through on this promise before. When he was talking about the Innocence of Muslims video at the United Nations, it was in the part of the speech talking about the protests at over a dozen of our embassies around the world because of the video. He talked about the Libya attack at the very beginning of the UN speech and was quite clear that it wasn't related to these protests.

The only other thing that this video shows is that apparently Susan Rice isn't very well informed because she clearly had no clue what was going on. Maybe she was getting her information from Fox News.

It's quite clear that, for whatever reason, you have an agenda against President Obama. You and the rest of the Republican party who continue to use this false pretense to try to attack the President just proves how desperate you guys are getting. Meanwhile, your candidate is releasing television ads with such blatant lies in them that he is being called out on them by neutral third parties. That never happens!

I'm done wasting my time. We'll see what happens on Tuesday.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:25 PM   #87
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 07:06 PM   #88
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:43 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
This is a lie. It's not true. You repeating it over again and again doesn't make it true. It just makes you look crazy.


I bet you can't find a single clip or quote from President Obama where he blames the youtube video. Prove it or it didn't happen.
You can watch the numerous videos of Mrs. Clinton and several members of the Obama Administration on "youtube.com." It took a period of 14 days before they declared that it was a terrorist attack, and Mrs. Clinton took the blame for the mess. Just go ahead and watch the videos as you notice that dates displayed.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:48 PM   #90
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So the other day I saw a clip of Ann Romney proclaiming how honest her man is. If that was really true, why did he make the lies up about welfare months ago (and stick with them even after being proved wrong)? And now it seems like he is doing the same thing again. He has latched onto the idea that Jeep is moving jobs to China. The company has said that is not true. Yet the campaign and surrogates continue to make the claim.

I just do not understand the constant blatant false claims. Even the notion by Ann Romney that her husband is honest, is itself, a false claim. There's plenty enough to criticize the President for without resorting to made up things. It just makes himself look bad and look desperate.

I don't understand how a man that considers himself religious, can hold onto blatantly false statements. That would seem to contradict the teachings of God, would it not?

And even if this bit about Jeep were true, it seems more then a little hypocritical that Romney would complain about a company coming in, buying another and moving jobs elsewhere when he was urging for those companies to be put through bankruptcy which would have involved the same thing. Things he did while at Bain.

But it's even worse when the claims are not even true.

Think this article's title sums it up best:

People of Ohio: Mitt Romney Thinks You’re All Idiots

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/10...io-ad-car.html

Doubling down on the falsehood today:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/2...-and-accurate/
I admit I only ready the title and nothing else, but you do realize the other person is Obama right, and honest is far from his strong point.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:06 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose View Post
You can watch the numerous videos of Mrs. Clinton and several members of the Obama Administration on "youtube.com." It took a period of 14 days before they declared that it was a terrorist attack, and Mrs. Clinton took the blame for the mess. Just go ahead and watch the videos as you notice that dates displayed.
I think it's absolutely pathetic that the only thing Romney supporters can use as ammunition is this - and it basically comes down to semantics. Who cares what term was used (and I'm being polite, because obviously you are just going to ignore the transcript where he, in fact, used the word TERROR) - and seriously, what ********** difference does it make what they called it?

Honestly, you all sound like 5 year olds who just can't let this idiocy go - even in the face of logic and reality.

Actually, that's an insult to 5 year olds. Your guy is losing and this is all you have? LOL
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:40 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose View Post
You can watch the numerous videos of Mrs. Clinton and several members of the Obama Administration on "youtube.com." It took a period of 14 days before they declared that it was a terrorist attack, and Mrs. Clinton took the blame for the mess. Just go ahead and watch the videos as you notice that dates displayed.
You're just lying to yourself because President Obama called it a terrorist attack the day after the attack in his address in the Rose Garden. It's there, go check the transcript or watch the video for yourself.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:33 PM   #93
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Perhaps Romney is dishonest; I don't really know. But one thing is certain: not telling the truth for a couple of weeks when four Americans died in Libya tops a lack of honesty. And this act could cost President Obama's dearly during this election.
Perhaps? OMG. How many things does a guy have to flip flop and lie on before you believe that he is in fact, a liar? It's AMAZING how much trust people put into a man just because he has an (R) next to his name. It doesn't matter if he had completely different policies in the past. It doesn't matter if he lies about a car company and that company calles him on his BS. It doesn't matter if he associates himself with people who have questionable ideas about abortion and rape. It doesn't matter if he spouts off 47% comments and takes 3 weeks (after he was caught) to apologize for them. It doesn't matter if he hides his money in the Cayman Islands. It doesn't matter that he refuses to show his taxes. It doesn't matter that he has refused to answer any questions from anyone for 23 days (and counting). It doesn't matter if his approval when leaving office of Governor was a dismal 34%. It doesn't matter that the people of that state who elected him before, do not want to elect him again now. None of those things (and many more) matter to you. That is insane. They should.

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AlaskMoose, you have people here on this forum that think this Terrorist attack is not a BIG deal. Don't get fooled by them. It's a HUGE deal.
Come back here on Wednesday and we will see just how "huge" of a deal it was to the American people. When even Mitt has stopped talking about it, and when he didn't really pursue it in the foreign policy debate, I am going to say it's not a huge deal.

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The truth is, You dont care.
The truth is you care too much. You are so desperate to criticize the President that you will try to use anything. Republicans are SO desperate to pin some slip up over terrorism onto Obama because they just cannot stand that a huge slip up happened under Bush. So they want to be able to point and deflect to someone else. Nice try, but this 9/11 does not compare to the first one.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 08:37 AM   #94
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Nice going guys.

You keep these nit-pickers busy here, and they are less likely to infect anyone else.

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Old Nov 3, 2012, 09:04 AM   #95
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The complete obsession with anything that threatens the O-man really makes you guys look pathetic.

When Romney wins, he will not continue to blame the Obama administration, he will just get the country back on time. He'll ignore the liberal press, which of course will piss off all of you even more.

After his second term, total economic recovery, and the rebirth of the Nation as a true world leader, I'm sure everyone posting here will still be blaming Bush, praising Obama, and be as blind to reality as you are today.

I'm done even trying to make sense of this part of the forum.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:11 AM   #96
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When Romney wins...

After his second term, total economic recovery, and the rebirth of the Nation as a true world leader...
(bookmarks page)

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I'm done even trying to make sense of this part of the forum.
I'm pretty sure it's mutual.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:43 PM   #97
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The complete obsession with anything that threatens the O-man really makes you guys look pathetic.
What's pathetic is ignoring reality. Looking forward to the conversations Wed. morning!

Quote:
When Romney wins, he will not continue to blame the Obama administration, he will just get the country back on time. He'll ignore the liberal press, which of course will piss off all of you even more.
Hmm, right now he is ignoring ALL press. Including Fox. Bill O'Reilly is beside himself that Romney will not come and talk to him. That's what people who have something to hide do....they avoid the press. And on what basis do you make the claim that Romney wouldn't be playing the blame game? He sure is now. He runs very negative campaigns. He did with his fellow GOP candidates, and he is again now. He makes up ads that aren't even true. He is a very deceitful nasty person. If anyone were to play the blame game after an election, it would be that one.

Quote:
After his second term, total economic recovery, and the rebirth of the Nation as a true world leader, I'm sure everyone posting here will still be blaming Bush, praising Obama, and be as blind to reality as you are today.
Bahahahahha.....wow. Just wow. That's quite a fantasy you have there. True world leader? LOL...he couldn't even handle our closest ally, Britain, correctly.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:59 PM   #98
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The complete obsession with anything that threatens the O-man really makes you guys look pathetic.

When Romney wins, he will not continue to blame the Obama administration, he will just get the country back on time. He'll ignore the liberal press, which of course will piss off all of you even more.

After his second term, total economic recovery, and the rebirth of the Nation as a true world leader, I'm sure everyone posting here will still be blaming Bush, praising Obama, and be as blind to reality as you are today.

I'm done even trying to make sense of this part of the forum.
You you you...you mean we shouldn't blame Bush for all of our problems that have absolutely nothing to do with government?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:13 PM   #99
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The complete obsession with anything that threatens the O-man really makes you guys look pathetic.
The only thing pathetic is a campaign making tv ads with blatant lies in them and people harping on a manufactured reality of one event to try to blame someone who didn't do anything that any other President wouldn't have done in the same situation.

Quote:
When Romney wins, he will not continue to blame the Obama administration, he will just get the country back on time. He'll ignore the liberal press, which of course will piss off all of you even more.
Denial much?

Quote:
After his second term, total economic recovery, and the rebirth of the Nation as a true world leader, I'm sure everyone posting here will still be blaming Bush, praising Obama, and be as blind to reality as you are today.
A true world leader? Romney couldn't even lead my state correctly, how the **** is he going to lead a country or "the world"?

And in case you hadn't noticed, our standing in the world and other nations opinions of us have gone up since we elected President Obama. The fact that nearly 90% of Europeans think we should pick him over Rmoney is proof of this.

Quote:
I'm done even trying to make sense of this part of the forum.
Must be tough trying to make sense of something that doesn't line up with the ideas of your manufactured reality.

Just like the GM spokesman said "At this stage, we're looking at Hubble telescope-length distances between campaign ads and reality."
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:04 PM   #100
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You're just lying to yourself because President Obama called it a terrorist attack the day after the attack in his address in the Rose Garden. It's there, go check the transcript or watch the video for yourself.
Well, he called it an act of terror, rather than a terroristic terrorist attack by terrorists or whatever it is that the Obama-haters think they want today.

Quote:
THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. Every day, all across the world, American diplomats and civilians work tirelessly to advance the interests and values of our nation. Often, they are away from their families. Sometimes, they brave great danger.

Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed. And today, the American people stand united in holding the families of the four Americans in our thoughts and in our prayers.

The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.
:

Quote:
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
See, you have to understand that from the right-wing viewpoint, an act of terror is not the same thing as - whatever the right wing calls it - because it was spoken by President Obama.

I haven't read the detailed timeline that was apparently released, but, it is pretty interesting that about half a dozen CIA guys with light weapons were able to rescue the remaining folks who were alive considering that the attacking force was estimated at about 150 initially. Are there estimates for how many of the attackers were killed?

Here are a couple of the many articles:

http://www.sfgate.com/world/article/...ya-4002219.php

http://www.freep.com/article/2012110...xt|FRONTPAGE|s


If I were Romney, I would be ashamed of myself on this one, but, I do think the President did not handle this completely correctly. He seemed to view it in largely military terms, to be handled mostly "in the family", but, he should have realized that as far as Romney and Ryan are concerned, "all's fair". I'm surprised that they haven't blamed him for Hurricane Sandy yet.
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