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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:03 PM   #176
AidenShaw
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Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post
I have yet to understand why people like to call Apple a bubble. I mean, yeah, their stock price is high, but they have a the revenue and earnings to back it up.
...but Apple's earnings depend to a frightening extent on a loyal fan base which will stand in pouring rain overnight to be the first to get the latest Apple gadget.

If Apple loses that fan base, the stock will drop into the teens.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:19 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by jsw View Post
Just as awesome as the phone apps look on iPads.

There are a lot of Android tablet apps.

As I said, the iPad 4 still wins, but the margin of victory is going down over time. However, I think that's because everyone's getting better, not because Apple is lagging, and I am glad there are options, because options keep companies busy making things better.

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I completely agree with that.
Love your avatar. Pretty much agree with your statements also.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathChill View Post
Whoa, whoa, whoa! Lilo doesn't just spend all of his time on an Apple forum, he also frequents Apple articles on other sites to complain about Apple.
Okay then...I stand corrected

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenShaw View Post
...but Apple's earnings depend to a frightening extent on a loyal fan base which will stand in pouring rain overnight to be the first to get the latest Apple gadget.

If Apple loses that fan base, the stock will drop into the teens.
That's a big IF
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:39 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by aristotle View Post
Is it actually that resolution? I heard from some people on the web that it was using Pentile technology so that the effective horizontal resolution ranges between full and half depending on the colors in the image.
And this post gets +9? this is completely incorrect, it is an PLS screen which Samsung designed to supersede IPS. It is NOT a pentile AMOLED.

But hey, lets all just mindlessly click +

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
It’s time for Google to step up to the plate and control the entire experience of Android and hardware.


Um..people have been saying that about Windows and Google now for 6+ years.

This is EXACTLY WHY Apple has the superior experience. They control the hardware and make the software for that specific hardware. They have a approval system that weeds out bad programming and bad apps.

Google and MS will not be able to replicate this for years and years IF they even go that route.
What do you think it is that Google has been doing with the Nexus line for nearly the last 3 years?

What do you think the Surface is?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChazUK View Post
Yes it does, I am the quality control.

If it's s*** - No.
If it wants access to too much of my data - No.
If it has poor reviwes - No.
If it is from a dev with a poor reputation - No.

If the app has good reviews, has the permissions I'd expect, a good developer reputation and does what I need, I'll buy/use it.

I do not need anyone else to vet what can and can not be run on my Android devices thank you.
Yes, but you're forgetting that this process involves you being able to think for yourself. Whilst most Android users can deal with this...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbon View Post
"'Look how great Android tablets can be,' the company seems to be saying, 'if only you'd make great apps!'"

Maybe if the Android SDK didn't suck so bad, they would!
Whats your programming experience with Android?

Why are there now just as many android apps as ios apps? (700k each...even though ios had a big headstart)
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 10:40 PM   #179
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but there's absolutely no way it's going to replace your laptop the way the iPad could.

An iPad replacing my laptop? I was laughing so hard after reading that line I just said... wow.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:08 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by skunnykart View Post
From a marketing perspective, you are definitely correct on Apple taking the lead and others following.

But from a technological stand point. No. What Apple came up with was not revolutionary. But I am not saying that Apple is not innovative. They are. And they have been very successful and I have been completely enjoying their products and sending them bucket loads of my cash to them.

We're straying from the main discussion here but...is Apple as innovative as they make themselves out to be? For some things yes (most definitely YES) but for some things it is just marketing BS. Sometimes they bring out old technology, call it something different, make it look different and slap on slogans like "re-invented" or "re-imagined" and get away with cheap innovation.

Sony R&D (not anymore but in the 90s and early 2000s) was truly innovative both in terms of design and engineering. If only their marketing was as good as Apple's we would all be chanting "Sony" instead of "Apple" in our daily prayers.

Unlike you, I don't like the android tablet (so far) because Apple does it so much better, but you can't give Apple credit for everything. Apple wouldn't have been able to bring out the iPhone if there was no Palm, or HP, or Microsoft, IBM, Nokia, Sony...and so forth.
I agree with you. I don't think Apple is the greatest company from a technological perspective either...but they have been able to pull together technologies (and even create their own in some cases) to make something innovative. So much so that they have shaped the tablet and smartphone markets. Who knows if it will stay that way, but it's where we are now.

Doesn't every company make themselves out to be better than everyone else? Absolutely true that Apple will pull marketing BS...no arguments here. However I don't think that should distract from the true "re-inventions" and "re-imaginings" they have done.

I think we are seeing more eye-to-eye now. I just think to say Apple has not been innovative and revolutionary in regards to mobile devices is the same thing as saying Google wasn't with search.

Thank you for the rational conversation.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:18 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by MacDav View Post
How pathetic is the life of a person who HATES Apple, but spends their free time on an Apple rumor site spewing hatred about Apple. Get a life!!!!
I am afraid you might be blocked from Macrumors for trolling.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:36 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
Those phone apps stretched on the 7" tabs will look awesome on a 10" tab
And that's the reason why I wouldn't even consider an Android tablet in place of iPad at this point.

The Nexus 7 can be bearable if you already own an iPad and/or laptop, because the "phone apps" scale half decently to a 7" 1270x800 display, and because of its extremely low price. As for Nexus 10, IMO even at $400 it doesn't offer as much as the retina iPad does; or even iPad 2, for that matter.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:58 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
We'll type it again just because it's kind of neat: 2,560 x 1,600. That's an awful, awful lot of pixels in just a 10.1-inch PLS LCD panel -- way more than a 1080p HDTV contains. That it's in something that comfortably can be carried around, and that can be acquired for under $400, is quite a marvelous feat. It's good to live in the future.
That IS impressive. Is there any content that can do justice to this kind of resolution on a 10" display? It almost seems like overkill; it will probably be like watching one of those 84" 4k T.V.'s from several feet.

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The metal shell's aren't style over substance, as you imply. They're chosen in large part for strength. At least, that's what Jonny Ive says, but given recent drop test news I'd say he's likely to be telling the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yvan256 View Post
That's one thing I hate about Apple's product. The shiny shell is next to useless for a regular human being. I prefer holding my e-ink Kindle (rubbery back) than my iPod touch (stainless steel back). Yes we can buy a shell for the Apple products, but it's still a flaw. Once again functionality loses over looks. These products are made to be used, not to be looked at on a display.
Those metal backs are definitely not a flaw, but are there by design. A tablet with a rubbery back may be nicer to hold, but that aluminum shell serves another important function, that you don't hear APPLE talk about very much. Aluminum has excellent thermal properties, and that nicely machined solid piece of Al, is one giant heat sink for all those heat-generating, optimized CPU's.

APPLE may be touting all their devices to be made with "highly recyclable aluminum and glass", but the heat dissipating capacity of aluminum, played a huge role in the transition from polycarbonate to Aluminum. Heat generation btw, was also the reason there never was a G5 in a laptop, and probably played a significant role in the shift from PowerPC to INTEL cpu's.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:12 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
Blown up phone apps look much better on Android than they are on iOS but how is that even relevant?
It's relevant because every single major (i.e. popular) iOS app has a tablet optimized version that blows the phone interface away. Apps work better, function better, are easier to use, and have more features than their "phone" counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
There are plenty of Android apps (and definitely all major apps) that are optimized for whatever screen they are run on.
Twitter?
Facebook?
ESPN?
Major news apps (ABC, CBS, PBS, etc..)?
Major shopping apps (Amazon, Ebay, etc..)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
I can assure you that Android Google Maps on Android tablet looks much better than any map app on iPad. Same is true about Chrome, Youtube, Google Now, etc.
Yes, preloaded apps - the ones that use Google's own services and are developed by Google - work well and have better Google services integraton with Google-developed OS. That's to be expected. It's like praising iOS simply because it has better iTunes and iCloud integration. The point is that 3rd party apps are lacking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
That's actually an advantage of Android as th apps get optimized for a multitude of screen resolutions.
Is that right? So that's what you'd call "optimized"?

Android vs. iOS tablet apps courtesy PCMag.




Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
When do you expect Apple will be able to match Nexus 10 resolution on iPad? Hard to tell. But I am pretty sure that without revamping iOS it's never going to happen.
And why would Apple have to "match" the few extra pixels of the Nexus 10? Simply to have the same spec on paper? The 2048x1536 iPad display is a beast in its own right. It looks stunning and the 3:4 aspect ratio gives more vertical space which is often essential for tablet interface (think on screen keyboard).
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:24 AM   #185
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Lack of storage sucks

All that I've read about the Nexus 10 is impressive, however, if I consider Apple is short changing consumers when it comes to storage - since the iPod Touch launched in 2007 64G has been the maximum - Google are taking the p--s with regards offering 32G in this monster of a tablet.

I understand Apple/Google wish to force us to using the Cloud - all well and fine if you can afford huge telco fees or have fibre optics broadband connections for wifi use - in reality, many people live in areas where high speed broadband has yet to reach, never mind new 4G networks.

Had Google included 64G of storage in the N10 i'd have purchased it over the iPad 4 in a shot, as it stands, you may be able to utilise the miniUSB slot to add a further 64G of storage - so I'm waiting to see how people cope with this method.

As it stands, I'm probably going to get a N7 32G with 3G for myself and a plain old N7 32G for the daughter - if she breaks a N7 I will not be as heartbroken as if she breaks a iPad mini, this is where the price advantage of Google comes in.

As it stands, the N10 will no doubt be an excellent choice for media streaming around the house and whilst Apple may have the edge with Apps presently, this cannot last too much longer - the next 12 months are going to be exciting and Google has thrown a gauntlet down to Apple and the other tablet manufacturers.

PS - I originally thought the N10 was one ugly beast, however the textured back is more appealing to me than brushed aluminium of the iPad - no doubt wifi reception may be a little better too, just wish Apple/Google/ Samsung et.al. would begin offering 128G storage - our iPad 3 is stuffed full and extra storage would be great!!!!!
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:28 AM   #186
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Is it actually that resolution? I heard from some people on the web that it was using Pentile technology so that the effective horizontal resolution ranges between full and half depending on the colors in the image.
If that is something like a pentile array, the Nexus 10 display will perform nearly the same as the retina iPad. However, saying Nexus has that pixel count has much more consumer appeal.

Samsung used an old NTSC standard for measuring resolution from analog displays so it could protect itself if someone said their amoled displays wouldn't have such real resolution... so pentile products can be marketed with these big pixel counts.

BTW, Nexus 10 display is an amoled pentile array?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:42 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by gorskiegangsta View Post
It's relevant because every single major (i.e. popular) iOS app has a tablet optimized version that blows the phone interface away. Apps work better, function better, are easier to use, and have more features than their "phone" counterparts.



Twitter?
Facebook?
ESPN?
Major news apps (ABC, CBS, PBS, etc..)?
Major shopping apps (Amazon, Ebay, etc..)?


Yes, preloaded apps - the ones that use Google's own services and are developed by Google - work well and have better Google services integraton with Google-developed OS. That's to be expected. It's like praising iOS simply because it has better iTunes and iCloud integration. The point is that 3rd party apps are lacking.



Is that right? So that's what you'd call "optimized"?

Android vs. iOS tablet apps courtesy PCMag.
ImageImage
ImageImage
ImageImage



And why would Apple have to "match" the few extra pixels of the Nexus 10? Simply to have the same spec on paper? The 2048x1536 iPad display is a beast in its own right. It looks stunning and the 3:4 aspect ratio gives more vertical space which is often essential for tablet interface (think on screen keyboard).

It's tablet, not a phone. Why do you even want to use all those apps on a tablet when there are web sites for them? Is Safari that bad? Nexus 10's resolution is almost exactly 30% higher than that of iPad, that's way more than just "few extra pixels".

Some apps (like ESPN) have not been indeed optimized for Android tablets yet. Not because of any inherent issues with Android but just because Android Tablet sales were really low up until Google and Amazon started selling their tablets. I am sure all serious developers will release new versions of their apps that will be optimized for tablets sooner rather than later.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by brdeveloper View Post
If that is something like a pentile array, the Nexus 10 display will perform nearly the same as the retina iPad. However, saying Nexus has that pixel count has much more consumer appeal.

Samsung used an old NTSC standard for measuring resolution from analog displays so it could protect itself if someone said their amoled displays wouldn't have such real resolution... so pentile products can be marketed with these big pixel counts.

BTW, Nexus 10 display is an amoled pentile array?
Nexus 10 is not AMOLED and not pentile. It's PLS (Samsung's take on IPS). Here is display comparison from The Verge:

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Old Nov 3, 2012, 12:56 AM   #188
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Yes it does, I am the quality control.

If it's s*** - No.
If it wants access to too much of my data - No.
If it has poor reviwes - No.
If it is from a dev with a poor reputation - No.

If the app has good reviews, has the permissions I'd expect, a good developer reputation and does what I need, I'll buy/use it.

I do not need anyone else to vet what can and can not be run on my Android devices thank you.
You have a valid point: The APPLE APP store approval process (missing in ANDROID, other than scanning for Malware or malicious behavior), although well intentioned, IS thinly veiled censorship, that is the hard truth, but many people are willing to look past that, in exchange for a better user experience. You can't really tell everything about an APP until you download it, and it is kind of reassuring that what you get or buy, has passed a certain standard.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:00 AM   #189
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You have a valid point: The APPLE APP store approval process (missing in ANDROID, other than scanning for Malware or malicious behavior), although well intentioned, IS thinly veiled censorship, that is the hard truth, but many people are willing to look past that, in exchange for a better user experience. You can't really tell everything about an APP until you download it, and it is kind of reassuring that what you get or buy, has passed a certain standard.
But it's a very low standard. Sure the reviewer will be able to suspect something if all the app does is spying or something like that. But what if it, say, starts doing it in three months after being installed? Moreover, many apps do have legitimate needs to contact all kinds of servers. There is no way these simple reviews would be able to detect anything unless the developer declares it
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:01 AM   #190
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----------[/COLOR]

Nexus 10 is not AMOLED and not pentile. It's PLS (Samsung's take on IPS). Here is display comparison from The Verge:

Image[/QUOTE]

You've just sold me on the Nexus 10 - screen shots look brilliant and as a big multimedia consumer - this device will be better for streaming and watching my 3T of digital media content than the iPad/N7.

In terms of mobility and fear factor of dropping your tablet, the N7 wins it - my daughter has already dropped our iPad 3 and that was in a protective case with skins attached - nice dent in iPad and yes it still works fine - moral of the tale, kids break things and I'd rather a cheap N7 broken than a iPad or iPad Mini - by the way a new case for the iPad is on the way - should have got a Otter from day one.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:16 AM   #191
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Why people still think that customization is only backgrounds and alert sounds?

Try using a different keyboard, a different launcher, a different SMS application, a different browser.

This is cutomization, not putting a different ringtone
I think that Opera Mobile (which I already had installed on my Nokia N8) works better than the built-in ICS browser on my Galaxy Note. However, couldn't find any decent pdf app which could handle 30MB files plenty of pictures. The built-in reader is slow and Adobe Reader hangs constantly when zooming.

Also, didn't find a virtual keyboard as good as the builtin Symbian Belle one. Didn't like Swype on Symbian and still don't like in Android. Predictive input is slower when you hit always the correct character in a decent virtual keyboard.

In short, I think that built in stuff must be reasonably good by not requiring replacements of simple apps like pdf reading or typing ones. Nokia pays for its small 3rd party app base but their phones live pretty well with just built in apps.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:17 AM   #192
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I just want to say that I'm glad that most of the posts here are positive and this hasn't devolved into some kind of iOS vs android war.

You can like Apple products and prefer them, but you should be able to admit that when someone else makes a cool product that it's a good product (regardless if you want to buy it or not).
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:21 AM   #193
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I see...So how long have you worked for Samsung?[COLOR="#808080"]
heh heh, I don't work for Samsung and I don't work for Apple. I retired 6 years ago at 46 and I am trading stock for a living now. I make my target this year trading Apple stock.

If someone don't like Ipad, it is time to move on. Apple build their product target a certain set of consumer. The poster that I responded to clearly don't fit that profile and should just move on. It is useless to argue with someone who has their mind set.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:23 AM   #194
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Honestly the nexus 10 only lacks in the cellular connection department.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:36 AM   #195
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But it's a very low standard. Sure the reviewer will be able to suspect something if all the app does is spying or something like that. But what if it, say, starts doing it in three months after being installed? Moreover, many apps do have legitimate needs to contact all kinds of servers. There is no way these simple reviews would be able to detect anything unless the developer declares it
Apple says that the approving process is for the consumer's safety but what if I create a web browser and submit to the appstore? Would you say that Opera or Firefox are less safe than Safari? Microsoft would love using the same argument in the anti-trust Internet Explorer lawsuit years ago.

Also, what if I developed an Apple Hater App, an Apple trolling forum for iOS users? It would be instant censored although it would pretty legal in most countries, even, and principally, in USA.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:45 AM   #196
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Its hard to optimize for a wide variety of sizes. If some tablet were successful enough, developers would target it. Thats why Google is doing the Nexus 10. Trying to make it the standard that developers write to.
The other problem is that by selling the absolute cheapest devices that can be made, Google is targeting the consumer who doesn't want to spend any money. That is not a good starting point to try and convince a developer to spend thousands or tens of thousands of dollars trying to develop an app. Large companies who need a presence on Android can afford it, to have coverage. But as a money making venture for a smaller developer, iOS is a much better bet. At least for now.....
That makes a lot of sense.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:03 AM   #197
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From a marketing perspective, you are definitely correct on Apple taking the lead and others following.

But from a technological stand point. No. What Apple came up with was not revolutionary. But I am not saying that Apple is not innovative. They are. And they have been very successful and I have been completely enjoying their products and sending them bucket loads of my cash to them.

We're straying from the main discussion here but...is Apple as innovative as they make themselves out to be? For some things yes (most definitely YES) but for some things it is just marketing BS. Sometimes they bring out old technology, call it something different, make it look different and slap on slogans like "re-invented" or "re-imagined" and get away with cheap innovation.

Sony R&D (not anymore but in the 90s and early 2000s) was truly innovative both in terms of design and engineering. If only their marketing was as good as Apple's we would all be chanting "Sony" instead of "Apple" in our daily prayers.

Unlike you, I don't like the android tablet (so far) because Apple does it so much better, but you can't give Apple credit for everything. Apple wouldn't have been able to bring out the iPhone if there was no Palm, or HP, or Microsoft, IBM, Nokia, Sony...and so forth.
Lest we forget Apple's Newton -- circa 1994 . . . or how Apple Fellow Alan Kay described portable computing and various sorts of non-traditional and inventive user interfaces . . . circa the 1980s.

You know, THAT non-innovative Apple . . .

Did anyone mention the non-innovativeness of Apple's iPhone and iPad packaging, or the non-innovativeness of Apple's customized ARM CPU/GPUs, or the non-innovativeness of Apple's consistently responsive touch-screen interface, or the non-innovativeness of the iPhone or iPad battery life before needing a recharge -- particularly when compared to recent Android LTE-capable offerings . . .

Let's not forget Apple's non-innovative OSX operating system and its stellar 12-year track record as a ROCK solid operating system, 100% devoid of self-propagating, self-installing malware -- you know, when compared to those ready-for-prime-time operating systems from Microsoft and its **included for free** tens-of-thousands of available malware zooming around the internet, waiting to reach out and severely touch someone . . .

Above are but a few examples of what has apparently become known around "these parts" [ahem] as lacking in innovation . . .

And, lest we forget -- the number of Apple-filed and awarded patents simply MUST be related to their non-innovativeness, particularly when compared to "the other guy," who has not been as prolific in the patent filing department -- patent BUYING department, perhaps, but not so many in the patent FILING arena.

Finally, this needs to be mentioned -- what is this crap about Android being an "open" operating system? Really? Anybody got access to the complete source?

Engage brain, please.

Niffy

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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:07 AM   #198
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I don't know if anyone said it already, but I think that tablet is ugly. The Nexus 7 looks better, in my opinion, and both the iPads are waay further ahead. I don't like it's shape, there is something asymmetrical about it that offends my aesthetic sense; I can't quite put my finger on it..

So far, aside from Microsoft's OS (I don't like the Surface hardware either), I see nothing pulling me out of Apple's Kraken-like tentacles...yet. I need looks and personality, not one or the other here.

Try again Google/Samsung...
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:21 AM   #199
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Originally Posted by Awakener View Post
Android could be great. In my opinion it's too bad a company like Google has to be the force behind it. Android phones and tablets are relatively limited without being immersed in Google's system.

Many security and privacy issues surround Android and Google, this being just one of the latest:

"Google's data-collecting habits drawing more scrutiny"

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-bl...-more-scrutiny
Errr...you know all the data mining things in iOS? Just as Google collects all your data, Apple does pretty much the same. *hint*
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:27 AM   #200
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This is the essence of the problem with Android tablets, developers are not taking them seriously which is a shame because the hardware in some cases is top notch but much of the software is currently pretty crappy.
hasn't that been the problem with PC's over the last 25 years or more..moreover has it changed...dunno, never owned a Pc in the 25 years ive been using macs...biased, maybe...if it aint broke don't change it.
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