Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Notebooks > MacBook Pro

View Poll Results: Did you see Image retention on your rMBP with this test?
Yes, and I have an LG screen 279 39.91%
No, and I have an LG screen 178 25.46%
Yes, and I have a Samsung screen 26 3.72%
No, and I have a Samsung screen 216 30.90%
Voters: 699. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:02 AM   #526
golf1410
macrumors 6502a
 
golf1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by bma View Post
You went through 14 units??!? I'd have told you to do one after the 2nd.

You made apple sell and return over $40k worth of machines, just to get a different screen. Serious sense of self entitlement. If you weren't happy you should have just returned it and got a refund.

----------



Then why replace it? other than for the sense of self-entitlement?

Like above, you've gone through $30k worth of machines. Between the two of you, that's $70k. And you wonder why Apple prices stuff so high with people like you.
That is good. It teaches Apple some respects. Don't ever sell defective products.
golf1410 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:18 AM   #527
Boe11
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
I received an LG panel this week and it has no IR as of this time.
Boe11 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 2, 2012, 07:48 PM   #528
kfscoll
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by boto View Post
So this Monday I FINALLY received my 14th rMBP and it is a Samsung. Apple has successfully satisfied me with this gorgeous display, defect-free unit, and cosmetically perfect machine. There is no dead pixels, yellow/pinkish tints, and above all, image retention.
Ridiculous. How you have enough time in the day to go through 14 computers is beyond me. I'm as OCD as the next guy, believe me, but 14 computers is way over the top. I can't believe Apple didn't tell you to pound sand after computer #3. I can see going through two or three computers but if I hadn't gotten a good one after that I'd have either gotten a refund or learned to live with it.

Without this thread very few people would've ever noticed the IR issue. I wonder what the issue will be for the 13" rMBPs or new iMacs.
__________________
Late '13 nMP (6-core / 512GB SSD / D700 / 32GB RAM) Mid '12 15" 2.7GHz i7 rMBP iPad Air 128GB+AT&T LTE iPhone 5s 64GB iPod classic 160GB iPod nano 7G 16GB
kfscoll is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:24 PM   #529
nickbarbs
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
alright heres the deal. i just got my screen change after having 2x lg, and 3x + slightly more months with the LG display.

So far samsung is alright. no dead pixels. max brightness seems the same. whites are oK too, but pretty much i would rate them the same +/- but the same. if i look at the URL screen in safari i still say "wow that is white. white is white." and i'm ocd.

minus the retention it seems like the general consensus is that new clamshell displays = samsung. apple realizes the ghosting effect is only on LGs. i'll bet at least, i rolled the dice today but figured apple would order the part that doesnt exhibit the problem as the replacement. very easy business decision; chance continuing production with the LG part that has issues but, report issues to supplier, per terms in agreed contract, and then direct Samsungs which do not exhibit such problems to spare parts. i do not neglect the chance that i had lu k on my side to get an LSN: after 2x LG i was resigned to chance, figuring that by now they have certainly remiediated as literally everyone i spoke to within the covent garden apple store, tech level, store level, genius bar level, was aware of this issue.

My take is, apple has done it right, and you can flame all you want, but business wise if it was your operation you'd have done the same. they allow those who dont notice as the effect is really, absolutely, if we had to be honest and true, on the LG basis just on the greyscale, all others are fine and amazing. LG is a great screen. BUT, it exhibits its behaviour, and that is the crux.

I got a samsung replacement and i say, thank ****ing christ. in all reality, i was exposed to 3x RMBP screens and this is my first samsung. so all due respect as i just got it siorted a few hours ago, i may find issues and dead pix, but for now my picky eyes are fine, and AGREE whites are white as ****, given the screen.

So maybe it will allow you to be as confident as i was that when getting my screen changed i'd get a samsung.

Here's the result of the repair. 2 small scratches on the bottom of my RMBP, the backplate with S/N. secretly, i was furious, but went to gordon's wine bar to find solace and ended up enjoying several whites and a few rosés by the end. God bless London, land of the lushes.

Anyhow, i was pretty pissed about the scratches. OCD as hell, have been keeping my baby (2.3 QQ as i ordered at launch/16GB/256GB SSD/10 million USB 3 drives with mad terabytes@ love you 650m oced) in a case 24/7. cant even lift her off the table without being worried about even physics load to not scratch furniture + baby

I honesltly believe despite you all haters, this is a big step for the world of computing. apple, despite its +/-s, is leading the revolutoin of HiDIP. I respect that. and to be frank, it is some weird **** because I am truly an apple hater who belives they are actually the devil with regards to the market. however, i respect their engineering skills, and am slowoly realizing the value they have created by syncronizing hardware and software and maintining control vs. windows. as much as i love windows 8 i realize that microsoft HAS indeed given control to apple now in terms of having the pure UI driven OS on a PC. wow what a shift that most people don't realize HAs given apple by MICROSOFT the ball in terms of UX experience. Apple is NOW the purest command line interface / UI OS.

Anyway. I wanted to share my random thoughts w the community. Bless Y'ALL MOFOS

:0)
nickbarbs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:37 PM   #530
PVisitors
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
How long does it normally take Apple to fit a new screen instore?
PVisitors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 3, 2012, 01:37 AM   #531
golf1410
macrumors 6502a
 
golf1410's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by PVisitors View Post
How long does it normally take Apple to fit a new screen instore?
5 hrs
golf1410 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 3, 2012, 11:07 AM   #532
PVisitors
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Thought I'd post this here in case it helps anybody :
I went to the Genius bar today and I have to say the experience I had was second to none. I went there prepared to 'fight' as it's what I would expect when dealing with issues like this [this is the first time I've needed a replacement component/device from Apple].

Anyway, basically I explained the issue, showing him pictures I had taken with my iPhone and was about to go into detail about the retention test found on here and to show him the evidence before he cut me off and basically said that he wouldn't need to see the evidence in person and will replace the screen for, adding that he would make sure it is a Samsung screen instead of an LG replacement. The product code was 661-7171 so it's definitely a Samsung one. Happy days.

Great experience, although I think it was helped by the fact the Genius who served me had a Macbook Pro Retina so was more than aware about the image retention issue. Spoke to some of my flatmates about the image retention thing in passing and they found it hard to understand how annoying the issue is so I'd imagine that could be the same for Geniuses at the Apple Store who do not own a MBPR themselves. Also managed to pass on advice to him about the command to use in the terminal to find out whether your display is an LG or Samsung.

They had the part in stock but sadly they don't have a lot of repair shifts on Saturday and Sunday so I couldn't get it repaired there and then despite the part being in stock. However he did say to me it should be done by at least Tuesday

___

It looks like, at least from the Genius who served me, that Apple stores are more than aware now that the issue is solely related to the LG displays and are actively replacing LG displays with Samsung ones. Indeed he even mentioned that he hoped his MBPR wasn't a LG and is going to check tonight if it is after I told him how to do it.

My advice would be to get it changed it asap even if your ghosting is only very faint at the moment; my LG was perfect at the start but the ghosting started to sneak in over time and had become borderline unusable after 4 months. Who knows how long Samsung are going to continue producing panels for Apple's MBPR after the recent news that Apple are cutting them loose.
PVisitors is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:59 PM   #533
MUBiomed
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
I had been having retention issues for awhile (I purchased on release day), and I have the LG screen. Based on this thread I decided to take it into an apple store today. The genius I spoke to was not familiar with the problem and had to look up how to perform the test. They have a URL on their intranet that brings up a checkerboard for 3:00 and then turns to a dark grey background for 1:00. If the checkerboard is there after 1 minute then it is "out of spec." As you might imagine it is almost identical to the method described by the OP but with shorter durations. I think the genius definitely helped me out because after only 3 min of "burn in time," the checkerboard had pretty much disappeared after the 1 minute grey screen but he agreed it was still slightly visible. I think a 3 minute burn in is not very indicative of real world use when you will certainly have programs up for longer than that. Regardless they are currently replacing the screen. My rMBP was mint when I brought it in today so I hope it returns that way. I did change my password before I handed it over but idk how comfortable I am with some random Apple guy/girl having access to my system. Maybe I am just too paranoid? They said it should be done by Monday or Tuesday. I hate to be "that guy" but if they were careless with screwdrivers I am going to ask for the damaged parts to be replaced. I am too careful with it to have something so expensive damaged by carelessness during the repair. Anyway, thank you for a great thread and I think as long as you are polite and friendly you can still get these replaced in store without too much difficulty.

Last edited by MUBiomed; Nov 3, 2012 at 05:06 PM.
MUBiomed is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 3, 2012, 07:55 PM   #534
Newfiejudd
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUBiomed View Post
I had been having retention issues for awhile (I purchased on release day), and I have the LG screen. Based on this thread I decided to take it into an apple store today. The genius I spoke to was not familiar with the problem and had to look up how to perform the test. They have a URL on their intranet that brings up a checkerboard for 3:00 and then turns to a dark grey background for 1:00. If the checkerboard is there after 1 minute then it is "out of spec." As you might imagine it is almost identical to the method described by the OP but with shorter durations. I think the genius definitely helped me out because after only 3 min of "burn in time," the checkerboard had pretty much disappeared after the 1 minute grey screen but he agreed it was still slightly visible. I think a 3 minute burn in is not very indicative of real world use when you will certainly have programs up for longer than that. Regardless they are currently replacing the screen. My rMBP was mint when I brought it in today so I hope it returns that way. I did change my password before I handed it over but idk how comfortable I am with some random Apple guy/girl having access to my system. Maybe I am just too paranoid? They said it should be done by Monday or Tuesday. I hate to be "that guy" but if they were careless with screwdrivers I am going to ask for the damaged parts to be replaced. I am too careful with it to have something so expensive damaged by carelessness during the repair. Anyway, thank you for a great thread and I think as long as you are polite and friendly you can still get these replaced in store without too much difficulty.
That test that Apple is performing is not the best test. I you browse over to apple's support forum, people are really jumping on Apple with this test. Doing a test for 3 mins and then going to a Dark background will almost make the Ghosting impossible to detect. To me it seems like a nice duck and run by Apple, and I find it hard to believe they actually believe the panel is within spec, the real question is WHAT SPEC? Is it just an apple spec, or the LG's spec?

I am wondering if anyone has brought this to light with other tech sites such as Engadget, the verge and other similar sites. I think the only way apple is going to really admit the problem really does exist, is with pressure from the media.
__________________
rMBP With LG Screen IR after 3 months
Purchased just after launch
Newfiejudd is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:36 PM   #535
macbookuser2
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Question

Hello,

I've got a 13" rMBP since 4 days now and so far I have not seen any image retention on mine.
Anyway I'm a little bit worried because some 15" users say IR occurs not from the beginning but after some weeks of use.

I've tried the command in the terminal window from the first post but it seems not to work on the 13" version. I think I've read this also from another 13" rMBP owner.

But I would be interested whether I've got a Samsung or a LG panel.

Does anybody have an idea? Is there a similar command for 13" or another way to find this out.

Thanks in advance!

Regards
Macbookuser2
macbookuser2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 06:00 AM   #536
mobidutch
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
@macbookuser2

So far no known way to tell what panel you have, other than having a Genius bar person type in your MacBook serial number. You can just try for yourself if you see image retention:
http://www.marco.org/rmbp-irtest.html

Or if you don't notice anything...perhaps leave it be?
mobidutch is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:59 PM   #537
tim100
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: May 2009
i have a launch day 15 inch rmbp with image retention. for the new 13 inch retina users are you experiencing retention issues, from this thread and others on here it seems the answer is yes. has the issue gotten any better with newer models?
tim100 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:07 PM   #538
epigenome
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by macbookuser2 View Post
Hello,
I've got a 13" rMBP since 4 days now and so far I have not seen any image retention on mine.
Anyway I'm a little bit worried because some 15" users say IR occurs not from the beginning but after some weeks of use.
I've had my macbook with a LG display for a couple of months... I've had zero issues, I leave static images on the screen for long periods of time in my day to day work. It MAY get worse, but it may not. It's not as black and white as some (perhaps understandably) irate consumers would suggest.
epigenome is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:43 PM   #539
kamelperez
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Send a message via AIM to kamelperez
My Story

I ordered my first 15in rMBP in early October (week 41). It had an LG screen with no IR at first. 2 weeks in, I started to notice it when switching from the mail app to Aperture. Subtle, but present. I went to the Genius Bar and they confirmed the IR but said it was within spec. They said they'd make a note of it and if continued to bother me, or get worse, I could come in again for a replacement at a later time.

Since I was within my 14 days, I decided to just return it on the spot. I waited a week and ordered a new one (same 15 2.6/16/256 model) On Nov 1st.

I received the new one today (week 45) and it has a Samsung display. No IR on this one as far as I can tell. But sadly it does have 3 dead/stuck pixels. However the pixels are so tiny, I need to have my eye about two inches from the display to see them. Even then, they are only visible on white. So this one will be a keeper. =)

Other things I've noticed:
The Samsung is significantly brighter at it's highest setting than the LG.
The Samsung has slightly more toned down colors vs the LG's super saturated look.
The LG had no IR for the first two weeks, and then it slowly crept in. Playing with the display model's at the Apple Store with LG screens, their IR was much, much worse. So I feel that with time, that issue gets worse.
kamelperez is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 06:16 PM   #540
iPersian
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbarbs View Post
went to a central london apple store for my appointment. I had the laptop on with a window open ready to show the Apple Tech the issue.

He came up to me as i was sat on a bench finishing a time machine backup in case they were ready for me then and there.. asked me what the problem was, and I always think it's best to act stupid even if
you’re a pro expert like me about part numbers and IOGREP and LG vs Samsung.

My approach was.. love this computer! Apple is so great! In God’s image! Yet, look at this strange effect happening? How can this be because apple is the best?

He took one look at the grey background and the image retention effect and said yep. I don’t have any parts now but I will order one for you, call you when it is here, and we will give you next day or possibly same day service if you can come in the morning :O i didnt even have to go to war as i was prepared for.

As he was going through his booking process for the repair I asked him if he’s had a few of these before. He said yes tons. Apple even made a new category of “image retention” on their service system specifically for the retina display (they didn’t have this category before the 15inch RMBP). He said that its the easiest service repair at least and they've ironed out the issue on all new pcs

Can’t fault apple for their service though. Really great service, at least here in London.

what does this mean?? that apple has fixed the issue on all new machines?
can you please explain further?
iPersian is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 08:09 AM   #541
TheIceman
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceman View Post
After 2 Month with an almost flawless LG screen (Little light bleed in the upper left corner) I now got the IR Issue!

The Issue was so irritating that today I visited our Apple Store in Germany.
The Genius instantly noticed the problem, started some tests and now I'm getting a new Display Unit altogether with a New Logic Board and a New wifi Card ( had also Same issues with wifi when my Magic mouse was connected)...

I hope everything will be fine :-/

-Chris
Today I finally received my MBPr back (2 weeks without it ....yieks) and what can I say... After I turned on the Machine I immediately noticed how much brighter my Display is now... no lightbleed anymore AND no ghosting.
Looking good finally..

Last edited by TheIceman; Nov 7, 2012 at 08:25 AM.
TheIceman is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:40 PM   #542
cms2
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Texas
Forget the grey screen

I had decided to live with the IR since as far as everything else goes, my rMBP was perfect. At this point, I felt like I was relatively lucky. It's been getting worse and worse though, and now last night I discovered this - I can now read text ghosted over my arabesque screensaver. Neat feature.

Edit: At least if I decide to take it in, I shouldn't have to set my wallpaper to a grey screen for this to show up.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1684.JPG
Views:	118
Size:	3.15 MB
ID:	375695  
cms2 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:14 AM   #543
Qlosure
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
rMBP 13"

I have a Retina MBP 13" custom built to order from the UK Apple Store. I received the MBP 4 days ago and I did the image retention test last night. So far, no traces of retention. Will test again after a few weeks of use..
Qlosure is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:51 AM   #544
nickbarbs
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
You all are going to laugh.. but are you ready for a twist ?

Loving my Samsung screen replacement from the LG.. but found something strange!

While at work I sometimes like to drop the screen brightness all the way down using the brightness keys. In the past this has basically disabled the backlight on the screen, but you can still make out LCD activity ie text etc if you look closely at the screen, sort of similar effect to an old school Kindle, it just isn't backlit, but the effect was uniform throughout the screen.

On this samsung... i have the same behavior more or less, kindle type text with the brightness all the way down, however right in the middle, it is illuminated significantly more than the rest of the screen, in the form of the apple logo in the back!

So bizzarre... but if i step back I see it is the form of the apple logo

Can those with Samsung screens see if they drop the brightness all the way down, can you see the apple logo coming through in the center of the screen?

NOT an issue really as when the backlight is on even 1 notch up the effect dissapears, but i find this pretty lolworthy and slightly bizzare...

Last edited by nickbarbs; Nov 8, 2012 at 05:56 AM. Reason: typo
nickbarbs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 05:56 AM   #545
AppleMacFinder
macrumors 6502a
 
AppleMacFinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofianito View Post
Try this ultimate test: Stare at the image below, if you get sick then your rMBP suffers from sea sickness...

Image
Wow, even my PC suffers from it
AppleMacFinder is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 07:27 AM   #546
c.s.
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Been using my rMBP 13" for a week and just noticed image retention. I didn't do the test, but I could see remnants of my browser on the background when minimized. Wondering if should return or if they're all like this.

----------

Last time I checked this link, 13-inch rMBP wasn't listed in "products affected." Now it is.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5455
c.s. is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 8, 2012, 06:32 PM   #547
Qlosure
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
I just tested mine with the screen brightness down to zero bars and I didn't see any light or outline of the apple logo. I also switched the light off in the room so it was almost complete darkness.

It can't be the light seeping through because when you dim the screen, the apple logo on the back of the lid also dims down. At least on my rMBP 13 it does.

Strange one that...



Quote:
Originally Posted by nickbarbs View Post
You all are going to laugh.. but are you ready for a twist ?

Loving my Samsung screen replacement from the LG.. but found something strange!

While at work I sometimes like to drop the screen brightness all the way down using the brightness keys. In the past this has basically disabled the backlight on the screen, but you can still make out LCD activity ie text etc if you look closely at the screen, sort of similar effect to an old school Kindle, it just isn't backlit, but the effect was uniform throughout the screen.

On this samsung... i have the same behavior more or less, kindle type text with the brightness all the way down, however right in the middle, it is illuminated significantly more than the rest of the screen, in the form of the apple logo in the back!

So bizzarre... but if i step back I see it is the form of the apple logo

Can those with Samsung screens see if they drop the brightness all the way down, can you see the apple logo coming through in the center of the screen?

NOT an issue really as when the backlight is on even 1 notch up the effect dissapears, but i find this pretty lolworthy and slightly bizzare...
Qlosure is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:40 PM   #548
Hpye
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpdillon View Post
I have a a rMBP and it's absolutely gorgeous and it came with an LG screen. I thought I did not have any image retention on my display but I learned in another forum how to accurately test if my screen displays an image retention issue. So, following these somewhat extreme instructions I was able to finally see the issue. This test opened my eyes to the issue!

Now I am curious if others with either Samsung or LG who previously did not see any image retention issue if you see one running this test.

1. Run the command in a terminal window to see if you have LG or Samsung: ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6

2. Set your desktop background to the darkest of the 3 solid gray backgrounds that come with OS X. Then, open up a picture of a black and white checkerboard with preview and blow it up until it fills the screen.

3. After about 15 minutes, minimize the checkerboard image and uncover your screen.

4. Report your results.

Image
i ran the command and i got this,

Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
DCN23570B5XF49JAP

so samsung or LG
__________________
MacBook pro 13", iPhone 4s 32gb white, iphone 5, samsung galaxy s3, ipad mini slate/black MacBook Pro Retina Display 15"
Hpye is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 06:55 PM   #549
Macral
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hpye View Post
i ran the command and i got this,

Color LCD
LP154WT1-SJA1
DCN23570B5XF49JAP

so samsung or LG
It's LG.

LP=LG
LS=Samsung
__________________
MacBook Pro with Retina display 15-inch
iPhone 5s
iPad 3rd gen
TV 3rd gen
Macral is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 10, 2012, 07:04 PM   #550
Hpye
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macral View Post
It's LG.

LP=LG
LS=Samsung
so I heard lg has problem screen but right now my computer is running normally
__________________
MacBook pro 13", iPhone 4s 32gb white, iphone 5, samsung galaxy s3, ipad mini slate/black MacBook Pro Retina Display 15"

Last edited by Hpye; Nov 10, 2012 at 07:13 PM.
Hpye is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > Apple Hardware > Notebooks > MacBook Pro

Tags
ghosting, image retention, quality issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPad Mini: How to test rMini for image retention issue 158273 iPad 7 Nov 15, 2013 11:15 PM
Do Apple Stores have an official test for image retention? anonymous4a MacBook Pro 17 Jan 14, 2013 05:16 PM
Image retention during IR test but never any other time, odd Dominus Mortem MacBook Pro 11 Jan 1, 2013 03:17 PM
Just got done with my 13" RMBP test-drive (including image retention test) CausticPuppy MacBook Pro 0 Oct 25, 2012 11:51 AM
rMBP Image Retention ericcwhitaker MacBook Pro 3 Jul 18, 2012 09:11 PM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC