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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:08 PM   #226
tatonka
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Originally Posted by Exio View Post
Ever heard of vector scaling? All top end android apps utilize this, so regardless of how the image is displayed on screen it never loses it's pixel density. Ie. it can be scaled up and down with no loss of quality.
Even if the image quality is crisp, the UI design, layout and size of the elements will be wrong for such a large screen.

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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:16 PM   #227
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:19 PM   #228
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
It's tablet, not a phone. Why do you even want to use all those apps on a tablet when there are web sites for them? Is Safari that bad? Nexus 10's resolution is almost exactly 30% higher than that of iPad, that's way more than just "few extra pixels".

Some apps (like ESPN) have not been indeed optimized for Android tablets yet. Not because of any inherent issues with Android but just because Android Tablet sales were really low up until Google and Amazon started selling their tablets. I am sure all serious developers will release new versions of their apps that will be optimized for tablets sooner rather than later.
I, along with many others, want to use those apps because in most cases they offer a much better experience than the corresponding websites. Android users like to dismiss lack of quality tablet apps as "not essential" and "not a big deal", yet they salivate every time a major app is released for Android tablets. This shows that they do actually care, and with good reason. OEMs need to push software development through partnerships with major app developers so that every new "flagship" Android tablet comes out with an optimized "killer" new app. Android has grown a whole lot, to become a thing of its own, rather than merely an iOS wannabe. Let's hope the software follows suit.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:29 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Exio View Post
Ever heard of vector scaling? All top end android apps utilize this, so regardless of how the image is displayed on screen it never loses it's pixel density. Ie. it can be scaled up and down with no loss of quality.
It's not about the crispness of images - it's about the quality of the interface.

Here's an example:

"ESPN Score Center" android app (phone interface scaled up to a tablet-sized display)


"ESPN Score Center" iPad app (made especially, and optimized for, iPad)
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:31 PM   #230
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Yes. Plenty usable means it generates 90% of web traffic with fewer SKUs then Android devices...and since web traffic is a darn good representation of much a device is used, I say it's 'plenty usable'

My point was focused on the fact that another poster said that the rubbery back on Android devices made those devices more usable then the metal back on the iPad. Again, maybe that is his preference, but the numbers show that for most everyone else it's not the case.

To that posters point though I do get what you're saying about software. I guess you'd like to see an iPad with a rubbery back?
Are you saying that users choose the iPad over an Android slate mostly because it has an aluminum slate?
If that's the point, I'm not bothering to continue this discussion.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:43 PM   #231
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Are you saying that users choose the iPad over an Android slate mostly because it has an aluminum slate?
If that's the point, I'm not bothering to continue this discussion.
One of the many reasons, yes. However, not the point. The point is that the iPad is far more usable then Android devices. So, when someone says that the Android device is far more usable because it has a rubber back, I take issue...but it seems like the original poster of that statement reorganized his position to something that I agree with (essentially saying that even though he would want a rubber back on a tablet he still finds the iPad's software to be more usable than Android).

That's all. However I get the sense from your post that you are not someone up for rational discussion. Oh, well...I tried.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:50 PM   #232
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....... he still finds the iPad's software to be more usable than Android).
Which is why iPad owns the tablet market hands down. The competition just doesn't get it and may never get it.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 02:54 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by iMLo View Post
Yes. Plenty usable means it generates 90% of web traffic with fewer SKUs then Android devices...and since web traffic is a darn good representation of much a device is used, I say it's 'plenty usable'
It's a good representation of how much a device is used... to browse the web.

Since the major selling point for the iPad is the App Store, it seems ironic to say that the best metric for device use is the built-in Safari app, because it leaves one open to the argument that Android users do things other than web-surfing.

I'm not saying that's the case, but web traffic isn't the best metric for use/usability.

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Originally Posted by iMLo View Post
So, when someone says that the Android device is far more usable because it has a rubber back, I take issue...
Then you must take issue with me, since, having had an iPad since the first days, the aluminum back is one of the things I hate most about it. I prefer the rubberized backs, because they let you actually hold the tablet more easily, and a tablet which is more easily held is a better tablet. To argue that the iPad is as usable once you add a case means that it's less usable without one.

There are many advantages to aluminum, but ease of gripping it is not one of them, and since tablets are by nature meant to be held, it's a shortcoming.

I still prefer the iPad in the larger size, but it's not in any way because of the slippery aluminum back.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:01 PM   #234
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It's a good representation of how much a device is used... to browse the web.

Since the major selling point for the iPad is the App Store, it seems ironic to say that the best metric for device use is the built-in Safari app, because it leaves one open to the argument that Android users do things other than web-surfing.

I'm not saying that's the case, but web traffic isn't the best metric for use/usability.
But it's comparing web usage for iOS vs. web usage for Android. So in a direct comparison, it shows that iOS is more usable than Android by examining one specific capability for both systems. It is logically extended that other capabilities (apps, music, etc.) are utilized at a similar rate. It is unlikely that iPad users spend all of their time on the device browsing Safari, while Android users eschew browsers completely and only use apps.

However, I agree that there are probably other metrics that would be more useful... I'm just not sure how easy it would be to figure those out. Maybe looking at time spent using apps like Twitter, Facebook, ESPN, Kindle, etc. on iOS vs. Android?
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 03:10 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by kalsta View Post
But their main focus tends to be on usable benefits rather than raw numbers. For example, they tend to compare performance benchmarks in preference to quoting CPU speeds in MHz. Why do you suppose they came up with the 'Retina' marketing term? Was it not to try and make a connection between the numbers and the actual human experience?
Agreed, but you and I both know it's a marketing term, and Apple's own marketing has been what has led people to assume higher resolution is better. Apple is very fond of promoting specs when they can (albeit coated in marketing with terms like Retina and, years ago, "world's first desktop supercomputer").

I don't have any issue with how Apple markets itself (as the plethora of Apple products around me would prove), but they are always keen on specs when they are winning them.
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Originally Posted by kalsta View Post
I think the benefit to increasing the resolution again would be so small (unnoticeable to the average user) that it just doesn't justify the effort. Someone mentioned being able to read even smaller typeÖ Well okay, we could print tiny 3 point type today using solid inks and a printer capable of 2400 DPIóbut what would be the point? Who would want to read it?
I agree to a large extent with that, but my point was that going to half-resolutions (each 'pixel' is 4 pixels, 2x2), you can show higher half-def resolutions, and for a lot of things Retina, the full Retina resolution is too much (virtual desktops, say), but the half seems a bit too little. A higher native resolution allows for a better half-def experience.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:37 PM   #236
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I no longer jailbreak my iOS devices but I do create my own lock screen and backgrounds using Pixelmator. Perhaps, you should look into creating your own images as a way to have a feel of having "control". I also create/edit my own ringtones and alert sounds.

You can change all of the background images and alert sounds on an iOS device without even jailbreaking. What exactly are you looking for? Aren't you still just a consumer of media if you customize thing with themes created by other people?
What on earth are you talking about? Changing background images? Alert sounds? That's what my technically challenged girlfriend would call customizing.

What about having your calendar + weather forecast on your lockscreen with automatic updates and having your cell phone switching on WiFi when you are at the vicinity of your home and switching if off when you leave. Automatic keyboard and locale setting switch based on the current program you're using. Adding quick switches for system settings on your home screen or lock screen. And so on and so forth.

Background images, jeez...
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:51 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by FFArchitect View Post
"Android 4.2 is more stable than ever"
This is awesome, I heard this almost every new Android version coming out since 2.3.

How many devices on 4.1 JB? only 2.7% before 4.2 coming out, pathetic.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 04:59 PM   #238
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This is awesome, I heard this almost every new Android version coming out since 2.3.

How many devices on 4.1 JB? only 2.7% before 4.2 coming out, pathetic.
Theres no such thing like 4.1 JB
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:00 PM   #239
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Originally Posted by alexN350z View Post
This is awesome, I heard this almost every new Android version coming out since 2.3.
The strange thing would be that new versions are LESS stable
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:03 PM   #240
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Yes it does, I am the quality control.

If it's s*** - No.
If it wants access to too much of my data - No.
If it has poor reviwes - No.
If it is from a dev with a poor reputation - No.

If the app has good reviews, has the permissions I'd expect, a good developer reputation and does what I need, I'll buy/use it.

I do not need anyone else to vet what can and can not be run on my Android devices thank you.
Well, you're a high quality controller.
Unfortunately, my mother, grandparents and 9 year old brother are not as skilled as you. They are not able to do a background check. For them, frankly anything 3 or more stars with a nice name or app picture = good.

I'd like to be reassured that they are not paying for useless apps or even worse, ones that have the ability to be accidentally approved to access a dangerous amount of personal information.

So they're all getting iPad/iPad minis for gifts.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:17 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by 1member1 View Post
WOW. I just saw the video from the verge about the nexus 10. Just saw the lags on this device with 2GB RAM and A15 CPU and then i remembered why i won't move to android.
To be fair, he did have like 15 tabs open and The Verge is a really terribly optimized site. It scrolls so poorly on the retina Macbook Pro.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:18 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by Lifequest View Post
Well, you're a high quality controller.
Unfortunately, my mother, grandparents and 9 year old brother are not as skilled as you. They are not able to do a background check. For them, frankly anything 3 or more stars with a nice name or app picture = good.

I'd like to be reassured that they are not paying for useless apps or even worse, ones that have the ability to be accidentally approved to access a dangerous amount of personal information.

So they're all getting iPad/iPad minis for gifts.
Surely you've followed enough stories about rogue/misleading iOS apps to know that Apple isn't always able to ensure such things don't occur.

As far as paying fur useless apps: Google Play at least allows a refund within 15 minutes, which, while limited, is better than the 0 minutes Apple gives you.

That said, for your mother, grandparents, and probably brother, the iPad and iOS are clearly better choices.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:33 PM   #243
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I think you are able to get refunds on the appstore, almost sure i saw posts from people regarding that subject.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:40 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by chrisbru View Post
But it's comparing web usage for iOS vs. web usage for Android. So in a direct comparison, it shows that iOS is more usable than Android by examining one specific capability for both systems. It is logically extended that other capabilities (apps, music, etc.) are utilized at a similar rate. It is unlikely that iPad users spend all of their time on the device browsing Safari, while Android users eschew browsers completely and only use apps.
We'll just have to disagree.

I also think iOS is more usable to the average person, based on using both current OS versions. However, the web metric only shows that iOS devices spend more time surfing pages. It implies that the browser experience is better, but it might just mean that the types who buy iOS devices are more inclined to surf, and the types who buy Android devices are less so.

More likely, it's due to the fact that most Android devices are running ancient versions of the OS. With the Nexus 10, you're looking at the state-of-the-art Android OS. This points to a major weakness of Android - the fractured landscape - but it doesn't point to a weakness with Jelly Bean 4.x and the Nexus 10. If most iOS users were on iOS 2 or iOS 4, there'd be similar issues.

Further, while I also personally agree that iOS apps tend to be better, the web surfing metrics absolutely do not prove that other apps are better.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by roxxette View Post
I think you are able to get refunds on the appstore, almost sure i saw posts from people regarding that subject.
If so, I think it's must be new, per-developer, or via effort. On Play, you just click to get a refund, and after 15 minutes, the option goes away.

If it's readily available in iOS 6, I've missed it and will look for it.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:52 PM   #245
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Oh no mate theres no option like you say it is on android, im talking about people contacting costumer support to get it done.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 05:56 PM   #246
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Oh no mate theres no option like you say it is on android, im talking about people contacting costumer support to get it done.
It's nice that it's at least possible. :-)

That said, you're a lot more likely to return an app on Play, given how easy it is, but on the flip side you're a lot more likely to try it, given how easy it is to return it if you don't like it. I wish Apple would adopt a similar policy.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 06:08 PM   #247
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I must say that i just save trouble lol will be nice to have the same option, that will remove all the "lite" apps taking space.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 07:12 PM   #248
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If Apple wants their tablets (especially the Mini) to compete with the ereaders, having a rubber back would help. Yes, we could buy cases, but it's nice not having to worry about that option. That's why so many ereader users are upgrading their devices to the ones with built in front lighting. One less accessory to buy and attach to the ereader.

I could tell you that cutting the weight in half of the iPad makes me inch closer and closer to using a Mini as a replacement to my Kindle. I have an iPad 2 and tried using it as a reader but the weight and feel was a big reason why I just quit trying.
riding the NYC subway system I notice most people with e-readers have some sort of case. Seems like people tend to buy cases for most portable electronics.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 08:19 PM   #249
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Yes, that is the reason that Samsung doesn't release sales numbers, because they are bad

When there is an increase month after month, using the shipped argument is stupid.

And, I repeat, Apple also doen't release end sales, they release shipped units

Carriers only pay for Apple phones, they don't pay for Samsung or LG phones? Really?

I take it you never look at Apple earning report? This is Apple 2012 10K (annual report). In P30, they reported the actual unit sold in 2010, 2011, 2012 and the yoy change.

In Samsung case, they never disclose any of the smartphone sales number in a consistent level. They release them when they see fit.

How can you tell S3 sales increase from month to month? Samsung lower their S3 sales expectation for remainder of 2012 because of Iphone 5 launch.


http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...411355d10k.htm

iPod unit sales 35,165 (17 )% 42,620 (15 )% 50,312


iPhone units sold 125,046 73 % 72,293 81 % 39,989


iPad units sold 58,310 80 % 32,394 334 % 7,458

http://thenextweb.com/mobile/2012/09...leak-iphone-5/

Indeed, to that point Samsung has lowered its sales expectation for the Galaxy S3. Despite selling 20 million devices within three months, it anticipates a further 10 million phones will be sold worldwide during the remainder of 2012. Thatís despite the Christmas season on the horizon, and it could be interpreted as an acknowledgement of the huge appeal of the iPhone 5; its chief competitor.
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Old Nov 3, 2012, 08:44 PM   #250
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No it's not.
To make a living of innovation is one of the most challenging markets to ever get into. There are so much going on - Making products for the future is one thing, making products for the buyers future is another - and seldom match up completely.
With Microsoft's and Google's aggressive expansion into the mobile market - never had the Apple stock been at more risk to drop, should their base find their needs better serviced at another provider.
We need to clarify the "IF". Can Apple lose it's fan base over time? Of course.
Will it happen overnight? Hardly. Will Apple lose some of it's phone and tablet market? Of course. The tablet market is expanding exponentially so even if they have a smaller piece of the pie the actual size of the pie is much larger. So even a smaller piece of the pie will still be larger than the bigger piece of the smaller pie they used to have. Make sense?
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