Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 3, 2012, 10:33 PM   #101
jsw
Moderator emeritus
 
jsw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Andover, MA
nagromme, I know I've been gone a long time, but it's amusing to me to see that sarcasm still isn't picked up on by so many people, no matter how blatant one tries to make it.

Your post was brilliant, by the way.
__________________
You'll be the one moaning for me to give you some. - THC(taken out of context)
jsw is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:59 AM   #102
krravi
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAT View Post
You may have confused them with Radio Shack.
What's the difference? With so many adaptors and exorbitant prices.
__________________
Lots of Apple,Sony and other gadgets.
krravi is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:03 AM   #103
BC2009
macrumors 68000
 
BC2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Remember folks:

...

Have I summed up the insanity?
To answer your question: Yes, beautifully.

My favorite examples of the insanity are:

- Samsung Galaxy Tab has a proprietary connector (which looks amazingly like Apple's 30-pin just so you might try to jam the wrong plug in there and break it) and their adapters are comparable in price to Apple's.

- Microsoft Surface RT has a "video out" port which is NOT micro or mini HDMI, but a proprietary connector and they sell an adapter for HDMI which runs $39 (comparable to Apple's pricing)

- Samsung Galaxy S3 has a micro-USB port, but not a standard one. They added a bunch of extra pins to it for HDMI over USB support and it requires their proprietary-USB to HDMI adapter to function properly.

- When Motorola Xoom shipped it had "mini HDMI" (not today's micro HDMI) and micro USB (the beloved standard), and..... a proprietary charging port because USB could not provide enough power for it.

- A while back "mini USB" was the standard and it lasted all of 2.5 years before it was overtaken by "micro USB" so folks could be "thinner and lighter". However, due to several manufacturers (including Samsung) making custom micro-USB compatible plugs, it is likely we will see micro-USB fade out and get replaced by another "standard" and thus obsolete all the micro USB stuff anyway.

But Apple is the only one who makes non-standard proprietary ports and they are the only ones who switch the connectors on customers and make them purchase new adapters. The 30-pin connector out-lasted any port used on a mobile device that I can think of. I am betting Lightning will last just as long. What other "standard" port on a mobile device can claim a decade of not being replaced? Meanwhile other manufacturers have gone from USB to mini USB to micro USB and from HDMI to mini HDMI to micro HDMI and all the while mixing in their own proprietary ports when it served their purposes.

Lightning connectors are such a non-issue and folks try to pretend its a big deal. If it is a big deal it is because Apple is the only company that maintained the same port for a long time. Nobody else ever gave you a chance to get accustomed to your ports on your mobile devices. Apple developed Lightning so they can manage to keep the same port for another decade and build out yet another third-party accessory ecosystem.

In summary -- I loved your comment.
BC2009 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:18 AM   #104
JAT
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mpls, MN
Quote:
Originally Posted by krravi View Post
What's the difference? With so many adaptors and exorbitant prices.
I'm guessing you don't actually know anything about Apple or Radio Shack, then.

Or jokes.
__________________
-- Spiky
JAT is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:29 AM   #105
takezo808
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Remember folks:

• The chip in there cost Apple nothing to develop.

• Then, once developed, it costs nothing to make.

• And the chip only exists because Apple wants to kill third-party accessory companies. Teardowns showing dynamic pin capabilities and other future-proofing are lies.

• And USB is FULLY as high-tech and future-proof and durable and easy-to-use as Lightning is. And the old 30-pin connector is just as good too. too. Lightning has no current or future benefits, so we should still be using 10-year-old tech.

• And nobody wants thinner devices or easier, reversible connections anyway. Apple just likes to ram thin and light down our throats.

• And nobody but Apple marks up cables and accessories. All other companies sell at cost.

• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.

• And third-party Lightning accessories have been late to arrive, which is just as bad as never arriving. Waiting for them is simply not possible.

• And a USB cable with this little thing kept permanently on the end is not portable. Only a single bare USB cable is.

• And the Lightning synch/charge cable included in the box with every iPhone and iPad somehow doesn’t already do what most people need from a cable.

Have I summed up the insanity?
Marks up cable prices? really u think? 20 buck for a lightning cable is similar to many micro usb cables sold by name branded companies. Sure there are many generic micro usb makers, but to say all companies sell usb cables cheap is not true. Note everyone makes money off of selling cables even the cheap ones, no one sells it at cost or it would be about 50 cents to a dollar per cable.

the adapters show that lighting is adaptive. There are HDMI, VGA, USB, and even old 30 pin adapters out. In order for a single connector to support all this is to be adaptive. It's because the connector is 100% digital, it does not require pinouts like the old analog connector does. The adpters have a chip in them that converts the digital signal into the analog signals or digital formats for the respective connector. Lightning can support many conectors of current or even in the future. Isn't that the definition of future proof.

No one wants thinner devices is just an individual opinion not a fact. many phones before iphone 5 were touting it's thiness from motorola's razor to even the samsung galaxy S3. They all got thinner. making electronics smaller reduces heat and increases battery life. It's how iphone 5 can offer more hardware in less space than iphone 4. New windows 8, phones, tablets, and ultrabooks are mimicking this trend as well.

mini usb is not dockable. there are many shelf speakers, speaker docks and every other audio accessory which has an ipod dock. This made coonecting an ipod very easy. while it will cost you 30 dollars extra to connect a new apple device to an old 30 pin dock, it's better than zero USB docks. You can argue that you can connect any android device to a speaker sytem using a standard stereo mini plug (the ear phone jack plug). But you can do that for the iphone 5 or any other lightning equipped apple device.

i know it's hard. Apple is just too good. it's hard for those other s to compete. Thus the need to spread missinformation
takezo808 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:13 AM   #106
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by takezo808 View Post
Marks up cable prices? really u think? 20 buck for a lightning cable is similar to many micro usb cables sold by name branded companies. Sure there are many generic micro usb makers, but to say all companies sell usb cables cheap is not true. Note everyone makes money off of selling cables even the cheap ones, no one sells it at cost or it would be about 50 cents to a dollar per cable.

the adapters show that lighting is adaptive. There are HDMI, VGA, USB, and even old 30 pin adapters out. In order for a single connector to support all this is to be adaptive. It's because the connector is 100% digital, it does not require pinouts like the old analog connector does. The adpters have a chip in them that converts the digital signal into the analog signals or digital formats for the respective connector. Lightning can support many conectors of current or even in the future. Isn't that the definition of future proof.

No one wants thinner devices is just an individual opinion not a fact. many phones before iphone 5 were touting it's thiness from motorola's razor to even the samsung galaxy S3. They all got thinner. making electronics smaller reduces heat and increases battery life. It's how iphone 5 can offer more hardware in less space than iphone 4. New windows 8, phones, tablets, and ultrabooks are mimicking this trend as well.

mini usb is not dockable. there are many shelf speakers, speaker docks and every other audio accessory which has an ipod dock. This made coonecting an ipod very easy. while it will cost you 30 dollars extra to connect a new apple device to an old 30 pin dock, it's better than zero USB docks. You can argue that you can connect any android device to a speaker sytem using a standard stereo mini plug (the ear phone jack plug). But you can do that for the iphone 5 or any other lightning equipped apple device.

i know it's hard. Apple is just too good. it's hard for those other s to compete. Thus the need to spread missinformation
You'd better duck 'cause that went right over your head!
zhenya is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:31 AM   #107
Pegamush
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
it's incredible how much people can eulogize this new astonishing reversible cable.
suddenly everyone is an idiot and can't plug a cable anymore...
Pegamush is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:34 AM   #108
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Many of the posts in this thread seem to miss the point of lightning completely. The lightning connector is not a USB connector but when plugged into a USB adaptor can emulate a USB adaptor same as it emulates a 30 pin connector when the 30 pin adaptor is connected, or VGA or HDMI when either of those cables are connected. The electronics in the connectors provide identification of the interface that needs to be emulated and take care of signal mismatch which means that the interface cables contain the minimum electronics necessary and the heavy lifting is done by the lightning interface electronics on the 'i' device. If you fast forward this a few years the same lightning connector will be emulating some other connector that may not even been invented yet but it will still be the same lightning connector just a different cable. Micro USB has pretty much come to end of its life with many implementations already not following the spec properly to get round some of its limitations. Micro USB is fiddly most of the time and is very fragile in that connectors become loose and/or break frequently, it was a poor choice to standardise on because of this and is limited for future applications. Lightning cables will become much cheaper as the technology matures, more 3rd party adaptors become available and will be used for probably much longer than the connector that it replaces because it is future proofed by design.

Last edited by everything-i; Nov 4, 2012 at 10:22 AM.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:50 AM   #109
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegamush View Post
it's incredible how much people can eulogize this new astonishing reversible cable.
suddenly everyone is an idiot and can't plug a cable anymore...
Well micro USB may not be hard for you but my parents and others of there generation have problems with it because its just too small for them to easily see and is very fragile. Conversely they have had no problem using the lightning connector so don't assume that everyone has your level of visual acuity or dexterity and simply dismiss anyone who has problems as idiots.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 09:40 AM   #110
Shimfs
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsayer View Post
Lightning is superior to µUSB. Lightning is superior to the 30 pin dock connector.

Is the 30 pin connector reversible? No.

Can you get video over µUSB? No.
Can you get analog audio over µUSB? No.
Is µUSB reversible? No.

Now. You can argue whether those line items are significant or not, but they are factual.

In practice, I find the reversibility of the lightning connector to be a huge win. It's relatively difficult to see which side of either the dock connector or the µUSB connector is which. It is, of course, a non-issue for Lightning.

A friend of mine is legally blind. He has found the Lightning connector to be a relative godsend.

None of this negates the points that have been made about Apple having such tight control over the accessories market, but those who argue that there are not real, credible advantages to Apple's connector are ignoring reality.

Can you get video over µUSB? No. = wrong answer. you CAN get video over micro USB.. you just need an adapter to convert the signal to HDMI, but it does allow for sending HDMI data..

this is just one random example: http://www.amazon.com/Menotek-Adapte.../dp/B005F9W6DU
Shimfs is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 09:47 AM   #111
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthereef
Actually, it can, just maybe in different ways than what apple implemented. It can do video. It can do music. It can sync data. Again, all it can't do is be plugged in any way because it can't assign different tasks to different pins on the fly. Show me where that is actually necessary and I will eat my words. Otherwise, it is a wonderfully cool party trick that the average end user could care less about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
I already gave the exact answer earlier in this
thread, post #56.

Do you need any ketchup or mustard with that?
Still waiting. The silence is deafening.
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 09:53 AM   #112
RobertoCravallo
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMan1620 View Post
Apple could cure Cancer and someone in these forums would complain about it. If you don't like apple then simply don't buy their products. I certainly don't waste my time posting crap on the Microsoft blog sites.
And then there are those, that take everything APPLE throws at them lying down.
RobertoCravallo is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:06 AM   #113
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReValveiT View Post
Well duh, with the use of a DAC - NOT natively.

I can get analogue audio from a USB port... With a USB DAC!

Come on...
But USB does not support this natively so any USB DAC would be a significantly more complex device. The point of lightning is that all the control circuitry is in the lightning interface so the connectors can be made a simple as possible. Then if you need to update to control something completely new its a firmware update so the lightning controller understands the new connector.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:33 AM   #114
everything-i
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: London, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsw View Post
nagromme, I know I've been gone a long time, but it's amusing to me to see that sarcasm still isn't picked up on by so many people, no matter how blatant one tries to make it.

Your post was brilliant, by the way.
It is a great post, I think, for some, he just did way too good a job of parodying the hater trolls that hang around these forums.
everything-i is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:50 AM   #115
lordofthereef
macrumors 604
 
lordofthereef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime View Post
Minus the fact that Sony and Samnsung phones use Micro USB for charging and data transpers and have for quite a while.

In the past 4 years the only major smart phone NOT use micro USB is Apple. Everyone else followed the standard and after it was agreed on. Hell they even had their dumb phones using Micro USB.

So again Apple is the one not following suit.

All Apple would need to do is on the side put a micro USB port.
Huh? We are arguing the same thing here, bud. You seem to have taken a part of what I said and turned it around.

I was merely pointing out that Apple is not the only one to do this. There are still dumb phones made by all of those companies that use the ridiculous proprietary chargers I am speaking of...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
Still waiting. The silence is deafening.
Sorry to keep you waiting. Unfortunately I have things to do other than just respond to posts here. By the way, what's with the attitude?

Driverless communication. Ok, but as far as making things cheaper, when the cost is transferred to the consumer (as it most obviously is) there is a trade-off. Cheaper manufacture of third party products for the manufacturer, and all the while the consumer fronts the bill. So, again, how is this better for the consumer? (note that I am agreeing with your driverless statement. That is an advantage over USB. But it raises the questions of: to whom? and why? I would argue that the advantages, to the consumer, do not outweigh the disadvantages).

I would argue that the reason more third party products are developed for iPhone is simply because that single product is in the hands of so many people. A great deal of these products seem to be docking devices, and a great number of those seem to be for audio use. With every other mobile OS there is, we have dozens of devices. In the years that iPhone has been around, we have had a whopping total of six. If I am a product developer, and I am seeing iPhones flying off the shelves, it makes sense that I am going to make my battery/case/speaker/model airplane controller for iPhone because, frankly, it's going to reach a wider audience. Conversely, I could make some ugly cable-ridden mess that just plugs into a micro USB on an Android/Windows/(insert mobile OS here), but I would have to worry about compatibility. This is not so much a weakness of micro usb as it is a weakness of the OS and the 183287462378476234 form factors of the hardwares that these other OS's run on.
__________________
I use iOS and Android daily and, more recently, Windows Phone 8. If what I say upsets you, it's probably because of your brand loyalty.

Last edited by lordofthereef; Nov 4, 2012 at 10:59 AM.
lordofthereef is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:11 AM   #116
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
Driverless communication. Ok, but as far as making things cheaper, when the cost is transferred to the consumer (as it most obviously is) there is a trade-off. Cheaper manufacture of third party products for the manufacturer, and all the while the consumer fronts the bill. So, again, how is this better for the consumer?

I would argue that the reason more third party products are developed for iPhone is simply because that single product is in the hands of so many people. A great deal of these products seem to be docking devices, and a great number of those seem to be for audio use. With every other mobile OS there is, we have dozens of devices. In the years that iPhone has been around, we have had a whopping total of six. If I am a product developer, and I am seeing iPhones flying off the shelves, it makes sense that I am going to make my battery/case/speaker/model airplane controller for iPhone because, frankly, it's going to reach a wider audience. Conversely, I could make some ugly cable-ridden mess that just plugs into a micro USB on an Android/Windows/(insert mobile OS here), but I would have to worry about compatibility. This is not so much a weakness of micro usb as it is a weakness of the OS and the 183287462378476234 form factors of the hardwares that these other OS's run on.
You skipped over my original answer that quoted you, then made another extremely self-assured post that Apple was just screwing the customer. When you are that certain, you'd better understand the subject you are discussing.

You still don't understand what this means or why it's important. Apple contains all the logic needed to interface with ANY device available today or dreamed up in the future within their iOS devices. It's built-in. Whereas USB requires drivers and intelligence built in to any accessories. That's expensive because it requires chips in the accessories and drivers to interface with the devices, and its inconsistent because there is no way to guarantee compatibility. If you want to release a new device with new features, the old accessories will not be compatible.

This is why there is a huge aftermarket for iOS products and virtually none for Android.

Other than the change from FireWire to USB and the recent change from 30 pin to lighting, EVERY iOS accessory made in the past 10 years has remained compatible because of the above design. It's not because iOS devices are more popular, it's because Apple put together an ingenious solution for accesorizing their devices in the aftermarket that was powerful and stable.

It's better for the consumer because we have a huge selection of accessories, most of which aren't even available for Android. (Just try to buy an alarm dock for an Android phone, even though almost all of them use the 'standard' micro USB).
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:29 AM   #117
the8thark
macrumors 68040
 
the8thark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
A product very useful. But so small you'd have to find a good way not to lose it.
__________________
Congress shall make no law . . . prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press.
the8thark is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:44 AM   #118
Anuba
macrumors 68040
 
Anuba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontwalkhand View Post
Seriously, what is the purpose of this? For the price of this, I could buy another Lightning cable instead.

Micro-USB is nowhere near as good as Lightning though, I have yet to see USB offer car integration as well as Apple's proprietary connectors.
Why are people (you're not alone) assuming this adapter has anything to do with backup, file transfer etc? The whole thread is nothing but arguments over the pros and cons of Lightning and micro-USB.

This is for charging.

The EU standard was born out of the fact that millions and millions of perfectly good power adapters ended up in landfills every year because manufacturers couldn't agree on a universal connector. Apart from the environmental benefits, it's quite practical. I remember how it was at work ten years ago... "Anyone got a SonyEricsson charger? I forgot mine at home!" / "Nope, Nokia here, sorry." / "Can't help either, I have a Motorola." / "Hey I have a SonyEricsson charger!" "Awesome... hold on, this doesn't fit." / "Oh, you've got one with the big smartphone connector, sorry, this one is for SonyEricsson's smaller phones, at least some of them, it seems to change every year..." / "Never mind."

Finding at least one colleague with a micro-USB cable or adapter lying around, on the other hand, is a no-brainer. (Cue the "I forgot my micro-USB to Lightning adapter at home!" scenario. Right, well, the EU can't help that Apple chose the compliance-by-circumvention path...)

Last edited by Anuba; Nov 4, 2012 at 03:08 PM.
Anuba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:48 PM   #119
faroZ06
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
Remember folks:
• And cheap unshielded bootleg accessories are just as good as Apple-certified ones.
This is actually true except that maybe 1/15 fake cables you buy will just be defective and not work at all. They're dirt cheap anyway, so whatever.
faroZ06 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:54 PM   #120
xraydoc
macrumors Demi-God
 
xraydoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 192.168.1.1
Ordered an adapter. Very handy to keep in the laptop bag for "emergencies."
__________________
3.5GHz i7 27" iMac • Surface Pro 3 i5 • 2.5GHz i5 Mac mini + 27" Thunderbolt display • iPhone 6 Plus
xraydoc is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:22 PM   #121
lordofthereef
macrumors 604
 
lordofthereef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
You skipped over my original answer that quoted you, then made another extremely self-assured post that Apple was just screwing the customer. When you are that certain, you'd better understand the subject you are discussing.

You still don't understand what this means or why it's important. Apple contains all the logic needed to interface with ANY device available today or dreamed up in the future within their iOS devices. It's built-in. Whereas USB requires drivers and intelligence built in to any accessories. That's expensive because it requires chips in the accessories and drivers to interface with the devices, and its inconsistent because there is no way to guarantee compatibility. If you want to release a new device with new features, the old accessories will not be compatible.

This is why there is a huge aftermarket for iOS products and virtually none for Android.

Other than the change from FireWire to USB and the recent change from 30 pin to lighting, EVERY iOS accessory made in the past 10 years has remained compatible because of the above design. It's not because iOS devices are more popular, it's because Apple put together an ingenious solution for accesorizing their devices in the aftermarket that was powerful and stable.

It's better for the consumer because we have a huge selection of accessories, most of which aren't even available for Android. (Just try to buy an alarm dock for an Android phone, even though almost all of them use the 'standard' micro USB).
A quick search found a couple alarm clock docks for Android. Here is one of them. They seem to be price extremely competitively with iOS options, too.

And no, I didn't skip your point. I will say that this is going to be my last reply if you continue to be condescending. It is neither necessary, nor does it help to get your point across.

I will say that I disagree with the reasons you mentioned for there being more accessories for iOS than Android. In fact, I mentioned the reasons why I feel there are far more accessories. Look at the last three generations of iPhone. The dimensions (of the devises), for docking purposes, are roughly the same. Now take an Android or Windows Phone device. They come in drastically varying sizes and form factors. One would either need to design some sort of dock that "molds" to the device, which has been done before, with limited success (IMO) or design some sort of insert that is device specific. But at that point, whenever a newer device comes out (something that happens weekly...) the developers are left continuing development on inserts for a device that is already on market. THAT would increase costs tenfold over developing drivers for the OS and for your product, and then using similar drivers/tech in future products.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.
Woah! That's (legitimately) shocking. Just about the only thing I can think of that still uses mini USB (today) is the PS3 remote!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuba View Post
Why are people (you're not alone) assuming this adapter has anything to do with backup, file transfer etc? The whole thread is nothing but arguments over the pros and cons of Lightning and micro-USB.
Because Apple's site states it can be used for charging and data transfers alike.
__________________
I use iOS and Android daily and, more recently, Windows Phone 8. If what I say upsets you, it's probably because of your brand loyalty.
lordofthereef is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:35 PM   #122
Anuba
macrumors 68040
 
Anuba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post
Commonplace MicroUSB chargers? MiniUSB is fairly common, but I've only seen a MicroUSB cable once or twice in my life here in the US.
It became a standard in December 2010. 90% of the manufacturers signed up. The commission estimated that it would take 3-4 years for phones with microUSB to become predominant. It hasn't been 2 years just yet.

MiniUSB probably wouldn't have been a very future proof standard, given the thinness race. The micro connector is considerably thinner.

Anuba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:38 PM   #123
zhenya
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
A quick search found a couple alarm clock docks for Android. Here is one of them. They seem to be price extremely competitively with iOS options, too.

And no, I didn't skip your point. I will say that this is going to be my last reply if you continue to be condescending. It is neither necessary, nor does it help to get your point across.

I will say that I disagree with the reasons you mentioned for there being more accessories for iOS than Android. In fact, I mentioned the reasons why I feel there are far more accessories. Look at the last three generations of iPhone. The dimensions (of the devises), for docking purposes, are roughly the same. Now take an Android or Windows Phone device. They come in drastically varying sizes and form factors. One would either need to design some sort of dock that "molds" to the device, which has been done before, with limited success (IMO) or design some sort of insert that is device specific. But at that point, whenever a newer device comes out (something that happens weekly...) the developers are left continuing development on inserts for a device that is already on market. THAT would increase costs tenfold over developing drivers for the OS and for your product, and then using similar drivers/tech in future products.[COLOR="#808080"]

----------
.
Look more closely at that dock and you'll notice that like most every one I've ever seen, it only charges through USB. It provides a mini audio cable for audio.

Yes, the form factor helps to some degree, but every device even from Apple generally requires a change to the accessory if a good fit is desired.

I apologize for the attitude. There is a bit of frustration in me from hearing the same arguments repeated over and over on this subject without having the requisite understanding of why the choice is being made. Its honestly one of the best things that Apple has ever done for their device ecosystem; it provides tremendous value to their users, and I'm actually concerned they are on the verge of screwing up the transition to a new connector by delaying the availability of adapters and aftermarket accessories too long.

The reasons you bring up don't hurt, but if iOS accessories also required two cables to accomplish basic tasks, and there was no guarantee that next years device would be compatible with that $200 radio you just bought (because it might require a driver update), there would be only a few accessories made available. Coincidentally just like the Android accessory market.

Edit: search Amazon for 'Android clock radio.'

At first blush it appears there are lots of options. With a closer look, they all require either an audio cable (meaning they are a glorified speaker - no advanced device control, etc) or the ones that appear to be fancier have to be connected via Bluetooth. For iOS, even the $35 radios have basic hardware buttons for playback control, the fancier ones add more control or even remotes; not possible with USB.

Last edited by zhenya; Nov 4, 2012 at 01:52 PM.
zhenya is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:51 PM   #124
Anuba
macrumors 68040
 
Anuba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
Because Apple's site states it can be used for charging and data transfers alike.
Sure, "can be", but I was talking about its main purpose, in response to the question "Seriously, what is the purpose of this?". Apple designed it in order to comply with the EU standard for phone chargers, that's why the adapter exists in the first place, and chargers is what the standard is all about... for data transfers the manufacturers can put 50-pin SCSI on the phones for all the commission cares, as long as the charging is done via microUSB, but obviously Apple also made sure that the adapter can handle data transfers, and that's... good, I guess.
Anuba is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:58 PM   #125
lordofthereef
macrumors 604
 
lordofthereef's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Boston, MA
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
Look more closely at that dock and you'll notice that like most every one I've ever seen, it only charges through USB. It provides a mini audio cable for audio.

Yes, the form factor helps to some degree, but every device even from Apple generally requires a change to the accessory if a good fit is desired.

I apologize for the attitude.
Snipped for brevity.

I know how heated a discussion can get, especially when you are passionate about something. But see how much better your point comes across (at least IMO)? I appreciate your toning things down.

Anyway, while there is an analog audio cable included, it's note needed. Here is a video (it's a little long, because it's an unboxing as well, but fast forward about half way and you will see what you need to see). The large issue, as I pointed out before, is how "wobbly" the phones are in the dock. Truth be told, it looks more like a dock than it actually is IMO. But anyway, when THAT is what you had to try and get around with a bazillion devices, would you care to spend the time doing it? I know I sure wouldn't.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anuba View Post
Sure, "can be", but I was talking about its main purpose, in response to the question "Seriously, what is the purpose of this?". Apple designed it in order to comply with the EU standard for phone chargers, that's why the adapter exists in the first place, and chargers is what the standard is all about... for data transfers the manufacturers can put 50-pin SCSI on the phones for all the commission cares, as long as the charging is done via microUSB, but obviously Apple also made sure that the adapter can handle data transfers, and that's... good, I guess.
Well, you did ask why we were discussing this. The adapter is being sold in the US, where there is no such law. So... that is why people are discussing it. People are discussing what the point of selling it in the US is in the first place (sans law requiring them to do so). Was only trying to politely answer your question is all.
__________________
I use iOS and Android daily and, more recently, Windows Phone 8. If what I say upsets you, it's probably because of your brand loyalty.
lordofthereef is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > iOS Blog Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lightning to Micro USB Adapter krixtian iPhone Accessories 10 Jul 18, 2013 01:50 AM
lightning to micro usb adapter ? Che Castro iPhone Accessories 1 Jan 27, 2013 09:31 PM
Lightning to Micro USB Adapter GreasyWeasel iPhone Accessories 10 Oct 16, 2012 05:36 PM
Curiosity on US interest for Apple Micro USB to Lightning Adapter EnJaNir iPhone Accessories 19 Oct 5, 2012 03:22 PM
Lightning to Micro USB Adapter jimbo1mcm iPhone 1 Sep 23, 2012 06:04 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC