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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:33 AM   #26
Bakari45
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I am using the Atomic Web browser which allows you to increase and save the font size for individual websites. With Safari on the iPad mini there's no way to increase the font size except for zooming in on the text.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
If the text looks blurry to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyKatta View Post
So the reason for all the screen negativity isnt purely on it being non-retina, but more because theres no way (yet) to tell the OS to set a minimum text default
The OP is talking about size of fonts, not blurriness of fonts (even if, as he says, it of course could enhance readability to have higher ppi screens).


Stupid question to the OP: coming from a iPad 9.7, aren't you used to hold the device too far from your eyes now with a mini?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:45 AM   #28
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You can zoom fonts in some apps.

Settings>General>Accessibility>Zoom Fonts toggle.

That helps.

Sorry to be an ass but the fix isn't always fixing something in software. If we can handle 3.5/4" screens 7.9 should be as spacious as ever.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:54 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
You can zoom fonts in some apps.

Settings>General>Accessibility>Zoom Fonts toggle.

That helps.

Sorry to be an ass but the fix isn't always fixing something in software. If we can handle 3.5/4" screens 7.9 should be as spacious as ever.
This is awesome. Totally makes the iPad mini much better for web browsing experience. Its perfect to me now.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:56 AM   #30
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I don't know. What I've found so far is that a lot of websites don't display as well. It's probably part software (the way Apple renders fonts is not very good for smaller text, and Safari has never been a champion anyway). All the other apps I've used, especially those for text reading, display very well and the text is not blurry at all.

So is it a software problem (be it iOS or Safari, or both), or is it a web problem. The sites that display a (well developped) mobile version read much better than those who don't. The problem is... a lot of them set the mobile res at less than 1024x768. So you get the web version. Which is not good for most. Macrumors included. You get to zoom to get rid of the sidebars and other stuff, and increase the font size. Once zoomed, bluriness is gone.

Some browsers are better (I use Dolphin right now) but only marginally.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:13 PM   #31
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This is awesome. Totally makes the iPad mini much better for web browsing experience. Its perfect to me now.
Thank you AdonisSMU!

I hate being an azz generally but I always love being helpful to at least someone
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:16 PM   #32
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The fact is that the lack of the retina screen is precisely why the smaller text on the Mini is hard to read. The biggest benefit to retina is that it makes even very small fonts very sharp. This was why retina was such a big improvement, first on the iPhone, where the text was literally too blurry to read on most websites without zooming until retina was introduced. On the first iPad it wasn't nearly as bad, but text was still noticeably smaller and blurrier in portrait that landscape. The retina iPad makes things razor sharp even in portrait.

The mini has a screen similar to the original iPhones; it's larger so somewhat less blurry than those, but its going to be more blurred than a full size iPad. This effect is also noticeable in most other 7" tablets that also do poorly without zooming in portrait, even with higher density screens.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:19 PM   #33
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Means absolutely nothing without knowing how many each had available to sell.
true- but B&N released the statement that this tablet has been their highest pre-order volume ever. So take from that what you will. Here in NYC- Demand is high. You have to put your name on a list and the list is already back logged by a few weeks. They're selling a bunch.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:23 PM   #34
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true- but B&N released the statement that this tablet has been their highest pre-order volume ever. So take from that what you will. Here in NYC- Demand is high. You have to put your name on a list and the list is already back logged by a few weeks. They're selling a bunch.
We'll see. It's a ploy that's playing out in many areas especially in the tablet space. Announce a product....ship product and then proclaim that the product is sold out and there's a waiting list.

The proof is when they actually announce hard numbers. Amazon has yet to divulge any Kindle Fire or HD sales numbers. Google was silent on Nexus 7 numbers.

I suspect we may get a Press Release from Apple detailing how many mini were sold over the launch weekend. To me this is the meat of the info I want. Amazon isn't even shipping worldwide for the Kindle and I'm assuming that the Nook HD is limited to a a few countries as well.

Apple has to ship worldwide which is a whole 'nother level of production tasks.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:27 PM   #35
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I'd agree I feel like the text in safari is too small, it hasn't really affected me anywhere else.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:28 PM   #36
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I posted this in another thread but it makes sense here as well.

This is definitely an issue that apple did not properly deal with when choosing to just reuse the 10 inch iPad resolution and apps. Everything is just shrunk to 7.9 from 9.7. This is different from android which offers a resolution independent interface and is also aware of pixel density and screen size. 7 inch tablets will render apps differently than 10 inch tablets. They will increase the font size to adjust to the higher ppi. Apple really made a gigantic mistake when they designed iOS without considering the fact that screen sizes and resolution differ between devices. You never have to deal with black bars or pixel doubling on Android. Unfortunately these problems are very real on iOS and its also what dictated apple from not being able to use a higher resolution screen I'm the mini.

A good example of what I am talking about is to compare the nexus 7 and the Xoom running the same app. They both have the same resolution yet the nexus 7 is aware that its pixel density is 216 vs around 160 in the Xoom. It therefore renders its elements larger as the actual pixels are smaller. This is all handled seemlessly in android. Do not think of it like iOS where developers specifically have to address device resolutions.

Android determines the screen size by dividing the LCD density value in the build.prop config file by the resolution. You can use this to make your tablet think its a ten inch tablet and have the os scale accordingly.

10 inch android tablet layout. (1280x800 at 160 LCD density setting)

7 inch tablet (1280x800 at 213 LCD density setting)
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Last edited by blackhand1001; Nov 4, 2012 at 01:12 PM.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:44 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
I posted this in another thread but it makes sense here as well.

This is definitely an issue that apple did not properly deal with when choosing to just reuse the 10 inch iPad resolution and apps. Everything is just shrunk to 7.9 from 9.7. This is different from android which offers a resolution independent interface and is also aware of pixel density and screen size. 7 inch tablets will render apps differently than 10 inch tablets. They will increase the font size to adjust to the higher ppi. Apple really made a gigantic mistake when they designed iOS without considering the fact that screen sizes and resolution differ between devices. You never have to deal with black bars or pixel doubling on Android. Unfortunately these problems are very real on iOS and its also what dictated apple from not being able to use a higher resolution screen I'm the mini.

A good example of what I am talking about is to compare the nexus 7 and the Xoom running the same app. They both have the same resolution yet the nexus 7 is aware that its pixel density is 216 vs around 160 in the Xoom. It therefore renders its elements larger as the actual pixels are smaller. This is all handled seemlessly in android. Do not think of it like iOS where developers specifically have to address device resolutions.
The problem with google's method is that not only is it more work for developers, the scaling is not nearly as seemless as you imply. Elements that have to be scaled to resolutions that are not exact multiples have artifacts that are visible, and there are still issues of apps having different levels of usability on different screen sizes.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:03 PM   #38
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The problem with google's method is that not only is it more work for developers, the scaling is not nearly as seemless as you imply. Elements that have to be scaled to resolutions that are not exact multiples have artifacts that are visible, and there are still issues of apps having different levels of usability on different screen sizes.
No it isn't more work. You can't think of it like apples layout system. Googles layout system does not work like apples at all. Unless you have actually developed for android you probably don't understand how it works. The issue of scaling to resolutions is exclusively an issue with apples iOS. Android has handled this fine since the beginning.


Heres a screen I took with that same DPI setting switched to 120. This would make it a 13.5 inch tablet. There aren't any yet its layout taylors itself perfectly.

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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:05 PM   #39
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:16 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
No it isn't more work. You can't think of it like apples layout system. Googles layout system does not work like apples at all. Unless you have actually developed for android you probably don't understand how it works. The issue of scaling to resolutions is exclusively an issue with apples iOS. Android has handled this fine since the beginning.


Heres a screen I took with that same DPI setting switched to 120. This would make it a 13.5 inch tablet. There aren't any yet its layout taylors itself perfectly.

Image
I don't develop, but I have read up on the subject intensively, including many of the Android developer docs on the subject. If your shot there is done in an emulator and taken from a computer screen and not the actual device, you can't say for sure how it will look on the end device. Scaling to non integer resolutions causes artifacts, that's just a fact. Google goes to great length to downplay the issue and to some extent it is helped by very high resolution screen, but the better reviews (like Anandtech's review of say the Nexus 7) still mention it because it's real and it's visible.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:37 PM   #41
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I'd agree I feel like the text in safari is too small, it hasn't really affected me anywhere else.
The text in safari does feel small but thats the website developers fault now apples fault. There is something called responsive design.

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Originally Posted by zhenya View Post
I don't develop, but I have read up on the subject intensively, including many of the Android developer docs on the subject. If your shot there is done in an emulator and taken from a computer screen and not the actual device, you can't say for sure how it will look on the end device. Scaling to non integer resolutions causes artifacts, that's just a fact. Google goes to great length to downplay the issue and to some extent it is helped by very high resolution screen, but the better reviews (like Anandtech's review of say the Nexus 7) still mention it because it's real and it's visible.
Im a developer and there is really no way to get around the issue short of making images in svg and using html5 for the rest of the ui. Its not as easy as people are being led to believe...svg would be a very bulky way to handle images and using canvas would be javascript intensive and slow things down significantly. They probably need to solve the scaling image issue with image files before this issue gets resolved honestly. Trying to gloss over reality with automatic scaling just provides pixelated images in apps and websites etc...

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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:19 PM   #42
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Android definitely handles multiple resolutions better. And the plethora of form factors and input features was touted by Google and Android Vendors.

However zhenya is correct. iOS is easier because the targets boil down to what 4 total resolutions.

If you look at Android apps versus iOS apps you'll see that at the pinnacle of design iOS apps are the ones that deliver pixel perfect UI. It's not contest but the downside is that Apple must make 2x jumps and generally keep the aspect ratio the same.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:29 PM   #43
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I am going to disagree with you on deflecting the blame from Apple for a few reasons.

1) Many apps already have a way to make text larger so Most of my reading issues are within the UI itself or controlled by the OS (system-wide text, safari etc) where text size cant be changed.

2) Apps Ive used actually do scale very well. Games still line up with virtual controls fine and Im not finding any 3rd party app to be "unusable".

3) Apple knew about the Mini far longer than the devs did so the OS should've been 7.9" ready at launch. But the fact that they didnt recognize this as an issue can't be pushed on devs or end users.

I dont like the idea of taking blame away from Apple because they are the ones that can make the user experience much better with just a little tweaking.
I agree with you whole heartedly that Apple is in the best position to improve the user experience.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:41 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by chleuasme View Post
no, it's you ...



you mean pixel density.

The iPad mini resolution is 1024x768, just as the iPad 2.

get it?
Yes I got it and was not talking about Screen Resolution but how much native information could be resolved in the same given area across all devices or a certain number of pixels per inch.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:24 PM   #45
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A great example of poor scaling is the the details/info/reviews section on an app in the store.
You mean this? Its a window in a window with the text unable to be enlarged so its like reading the fine print on an insurance policy. These are the little things Apple shouldve addressed before the mini was released because non-retina isnt what makes the screen look bad, its the font size.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:27 PM   #46
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You mean this? Its a window in a window with the text unable to be enlarged so its like reading the fine print on an insurance policy.
If you can't read that, it's a result of poor eyesight and/or the lack of a retina screen. I can pinch your image to ~1/4 scale on my iPad 4 and it remains completely readable.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:31 PM   #47
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You mean this? Its a window in a window with the text unable to be enlarged so its like reading the fine print on an insurance policy. These are the little things Apple shouldve addressed before the mini was released because non-retina isnt what makes the screen look bad, its the font size.
Now you are being something I cannot call you due to the forum rules, the text in your attachment is perfectly legible and readable.

Have you considered having your eyes checked?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:48 PM   #48
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YOU are confused.

Yes, iPhone Apps are different from iPad Apps

NO, iPhone retina 3.5 or 4.0 have the same resolution 326 pixels per inch.
So the iPhone 5 has extra space for another row of icons.
Apps can be rewritten to add more content on an iPhone 5 screen.

An iPad 3 or 4 with retina display is 264 pixels per inch while
an older iPad 1 or 2 is only 132 pixels per inch.
Apps can be rewritten for more please fonts ans smoother graphics on a retina display.

The iPad mini is 163 pixels per inch. A little finer resolution than and older iPad 2 but a smaller physical size, SO everything is going to look smaller.

The same App shrunken down 30% will appear smaller, capiche ?

Maybe we need a button to switch to 1/2 or 1/3 the resolution of retina Apps so they automatically hang over the screen. That way you can "Windows for Pen" scroll up down left right to see it all.

Maybe each mini could come with a magnifying lens you can attach on top and help out them older peepers.

OR

Just rewrite the App to be optimum for a 7.9 inch display like they rewrote Apps to be optimum for Retina .

Again not a iOS issue.
You are confused.

The iPod touch and iPhone non retina has the same ppi.
The iPod touch retina and iPhone retina is 2x the ppi.
Retina apps have double the resolution.

All the icons and text remains the same size across those devices.

For the iPad mini, things are different.

iPad mini shares the same resolution as the iPad 2. The is not scaling involve.

Everything is just 20% smaller on the iPad mini because there is no scaling.
Icons and text is about 20% smaller on the iPad mini than iPad 2.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 06:54 PM   #49
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This is why the nook HD is also a better choice.
It has a much better/higher rez screen.
yes- they have less apps- but the reason is because B&N makes sure the app is optimized and can scale to the size and rez and look good.

The NookHD is selling out just as fast as the mini. And most pre-orders have been pushed to Mid Dec.
I will agree the NookHD is very impressive. It's one of the few devices I don't have, but my brother left his with me for the weekend. Several hours into evaluating it, this is one impressive tablet.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:11 PM   #50
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This is awesome. Totally makes the iPad mini much better for web browsing experience. Its perfect to me now.
What are you talking about? The Large Text setting (there is no zoom font setting) only affects a few select Apple apps. Safari is not one of them.

There are a few third-party web browsers that support resizing fonts.
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