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Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:25 AM   #26
Jeff Charles
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Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
cpu test results. as you can see the cpu can not be cooled at top speeds of 100% forcing the cpu to downclock.
Can we expect that the 2.3 will run cooler?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:02 AM   #27
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Can we expect that the 2.3 will run cooler?
the test was on a 2012 quad with 8gb ram (kingston plug n play)

it ran 8 cores at 100% and top fan speed of 5500 rpm was preset.

in under 5 minutes the cpu got so hot it had to throttle down to 65% - 95%..

my room temp is 78 C.

what it means you are being cheated full use of the cpu in a 2012 quad core

mini.

this is the test


http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23935/cputest


it is a standard cpu load test.

if you are a cpu freak ie handbrake users

you will over heat the mini and throttle the cpu down to 60%-80%.


I will f around a bit to find a fix. all fixes will involve

A] lifting mini
B] remove black cover add a fan
C] turn mini on its side remove cover add a fan

I would argue that Apple should be forced to refund some money to all 2012 quad mini owners due to improper cooling.


Kind of selling us a porsche with an engine that goes up to 200, but it has a throttle and not telling you the car can't run top speed for more then 2 or 3 minutes before the throttle kicks in.

But Hey who am I to say this is illegal and theft of performance or at least false advertisement.


So since I am not a lawyer I am not saying you can sue or ask for a refund.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:18 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
if you are a cpu freak ie handbrake users

you will over heat the mini and throttle the cpu down to 60%-80%.
How about a Handbrake benchmark to show what the real world performance loss is?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 12:20 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
the test was on a 2012 quad with 8gb ram (kingston plug n play)

it ran 8 cores at 100% and top fan speed of 5500 rpm was preset.

in under 5 minutes the cpu got so hot it had to throttle down to 65% - 95%..

my room temp is 78 C.

what it means you are being cheated full use of the cpu in a 2012 quad core

mini.

this is the test


http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23935/cputest


it is a standard cpu load test.

if you are a cpu freak ie handbrake users

you will over heat the mini and throttle the cpu down to 60%-80%.


I will f around a bit to find a fix. all fixes will involve

A] lifting mini
B] remove black cover add a fan
C] turn mini on its side remove cover add a fan

I would argue that Apple should be forced to refund some money to all 2012 quad mini owners due to improper cooling.


Kind of selling us a porsche with an engine that goes up to 200, but it has a throttle and not telling you the car can't run top speed for more then 2 or 3 minutes before the throttle kicks in.

But Hey who am I to say this is illegal and theft of performance or at least false advertisement.


So since I am not a lawyer I am not saying you can sue or ask for a refund.
Thanks for the tip! Before at idle it was running at 60C. After elevating, it went down to 54-55C.
Finally I tried it on its side, and removed cover, it is already at 44C.
Its the new 2012 mid model, with a Vertex 4 512gb inside, which runs pretty hot! it is also in an open cabinet, with other machines. The room is at a constant 22-23 degress celsius.
It is worth trying these methods, as it looks like the factory cooling - altough it might be enough - is not very effective.....
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:03 PM   #30
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One item to note is that CPU Test is not a real world test. I've been running a few HandBrake transcodes at 1080 and the cooling is working just fine with no throttling. At 4500 RPM temp has been steady at max of 85C.

Before getting people into a tailspin about a theoretical test and forcing Apple to refund money, I would suggest some common sense. The machine works fine and is pretty fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
the test was on a 2012 quad with 8gb ram (kingston plug n play)

it ran 8 cores at 100% and top fan speed of 5500 rpm was preset.

in under 5 minutes the cpu got so hot it had to throttle down to 65% - 95%..

my room temp is 78 C.

what it means you are being cheated full use of the cpu in a 2012 quad core

mini.

this is the test


http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/23935/cputest


it is a standard cpu load test.

if you are a cpu freak ie handbrake users

you will over heat the mini and throttle the cpu down to 60%-80%.


I will f around a bit to find a fix. all fixes will involve

A] lifting mini
B] remove black cover add a fan
C] turn mini on its side remove cover add a fan

I would argue that Apple should be forced to refund some money to all 2012 quad mini owners due to improper cooling.


Kind of selling us a porsche with an engine that goes up to 200, but it has a throttle and not telling you the car can't run top speed for more then 2 or 3 minutes before the throttle kicks in.

But Hey who am I to say this is illegal and theft of performance or at least false advertisement.


So since I am not a lawyer I am not saying you can sue or ask for a refund.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 01:38 PM   #31
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I am doing a HandBrake encode of 1920x1080 mkv (from blu-ray) to m4v, using the AppleTV 3 preset.

All the CPU's are running (per iStat Menu). User CPU is at 88 percent. The CPU temp is 99-degrees C. Exhaust fan is 5497 RPM.

I am getting an average of 16.57 fps in HandBrake. An hour long high def video will take less than two hours to convert.

This performance blows my 2011 MBA out of the water.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:01 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
cpu test results. as you can see the cpu can not be cooled at top speeds of 100% forcing the cpu to downclock.

so basically you are not getting full use of the cpu and apple has failed to provide proper cooling for your 2012 mini.


proper cooling would allow the mini 's cpu to run at 100% endlessly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
I will f around a bit to find a fix. all fixes will involve

A] lifting mini
B] remove black cover add a fan
C] turn mini on its side remove cover add a fan
Have you tried any of the possible fixes already? I've seen something similar on my QC 2.6GHz i7. When using Handbrake (even a short 2 min 1080 video to Apple TV 3) the CPU gets to 100% and temps go up to around 105C (221F). Fans go up to 5000rpm aprox and then the CPU drops its usage to 80% more or less. At that point temps go down to around 95C (203F) and stay there until the job is finished.

So yes, I've noticed that too. Only with Handbrake though, which I don't use that much.

I bought a bottom Mac Mini cover which will eventually arrive. (I'm from Spain and I ordered it from the US with USPS, so who knows). I plan to drill a big hole on it over the antenna plate (zone where the airflow goes in to go through the machine and then be blown out by the fan), put a dust filter on it and lift the mini to see if I manage to make it run cooler.

I'm pretty sure it'll do something, what I don't know is if it'll be enough to avoid the CPU from throttling itself...

Here is some debate too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenT42 View Post
All the CPU's are running (per iStat Menu). User CPU is at 88 percent. The CPU temp is 99-degrees C. Exhaust fan is 5497 RPM.
Meaning you're not using the 100% of it. Actual time loss? Can't really tell, but I have to admit it's pretty annoying.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:08 PM   #33
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Meaning you're not using the 100% of it. Actual time loss? Can't really tell, but I have to admit it's pretty annoying.
Meaning that there is CPU left over for system processes, Safari, iTunes, mail, and so on. Looks good to these eyes.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:20 PM   #34
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@philipma1957

Thanks for those details, much appreciated. Basically it means that one is better off going for the base model or stick to the 2010 server or 2010 P8800. Now waiting for someone to give the details for same on the base model, will be enlightning to find out.

I am running with 10 - 15% CPU on my 2010 Mac mini server at 40 - 45 degrees centigrade 24 hours 5 days per week so no motivation to upgrade. Just had the motherboard replaced under warranty 6 weeks ago (mini display port playing up) so still a lot of life left until warranty runs out September 2013.

Will be waiting here to see what the Haswell chip is going to bring.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:31 PM   #35
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Meaning that there is CPU left over for system processes, Safari, iTunes, mail, and so on. Looks good to these eyes.
You're missing the point. You can't get the CPU to its full potential as it will throttle itself in order to keep temps down.

If you're fine with that then I won't be the one telling you otherwise.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:36 PM   #36
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You're missing the point. You can't get the CPU to its full potential as it will throttle itself in order to keep temps down.

If you're fine with that then I won't be the one telling you otherwise.
You're missing the point. You don't want a CPU running at 100 percent for a single process. There is a system to run, and the CPU must share its resources.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 02:38 PM   #37
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I am a little busy for really long temp tests. Here are a few temp cooling photos. will post soon.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 03:01 PM   #38
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You're missing the point. You don't want a CPU running at 100 percent for a single process. There is a system to run, and the CPU must share its resources.
You do understand that the CPU goes down to 80% not to let you use the other 20% but to lower the temps, right?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 03:11 PM   #39
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You do understand that the CPU goes down to 80% not to let you use the other 20% but to lower the temps, right?
I don't see it go down to 80 percent. I see 1-5 percent idle (still doing a 1080p HandBrake encode). If that is required to keep temps down, so be it.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 03:23 PM   #40
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Just had to register for this.

This is a huge thing, and i dont dare do buy a mini right now!
Has someone here talked to apple about this issue? Have they put a little bit too much in the mini shell?
I dont want to have jetplane-sounding mini on my desk :/

And i cant believe you guys talking about modding for better cooling, if you bought a new computer it should work perfect out of the box.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 03:32 PM   #41
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I dont want to have jetplane-sounding mini on my desk :/
FUD

That is hardly the case. I hardly notice any sound when the fan is running.
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Last edited by StevenT42; Nov 4, 2012 at 03:39 PM.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 03:43 PM   #42
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okay let me be clear. this issue occurs on high cpu use programs such as handbrake. getting your computer to push 8 cores at 80% or more is really not done often.

but if you have this pushing 1000 dvds in a month long effort of handbrake you are being ripped off a bit as the computer will throttle the cpu so it does not burn up.



this is okay if you tell the buyer that you can not run the cpu at top speed because we made the machine too small to cool properly.


that said I would think under 5% of users are getting ripped off since most users don't run 10 hours a day of handbrake.

here is a passive cooling idea. I use it for my very hot cable box.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:19 PM   #43
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I've been doing HB for for over 18 hours with CPU pushing 95 - 100% per core: 1080P, h264. Temp hasn't eclipsed 90C. No special modifications, no throttling no nothing other than a machine that is an incredible speed improvement over the 2.0 i7 server.

There are no issues with temp and I would not suggest anybody will be ripped off. For people that feel it's necessary to utilize other cooling ideas, it's a free world, but not necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipma1957 View Post
okay let me be clear. this issue occurs on high cpu use programs such as handbrake. getting your computer to push 8 cores at 80% or more is really not done often.

but if you have this pushing 1000 dvds in a month long effort of handbrake you are being ripped off a bit as the computer will throttle the cpu so it does not burn up.



this is okay if you tell the buyer that you can not run the cpu at top speed because we made the machine too small to cool properly.


that said I would think under 5% of users are getting ripped off since most users don't run 10 hours a day of handbrake.

here is a passive cooling idea. I use it for my very hot cable box.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:31 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Malte. View Post
Just had to register for this.

This is a huge thing, and i dont dare do buy a mini right now!
Has someone here talked to apple about this issue? Have they put a little bit too much in the mini shell?
I dont want to have jetplane-sounding mini on my desk :/

And i cant believe you guys talking about modding for better cooling, if you bought a new computer it should work perfect out of the box.
Well, that would only be the case if you plan to have your Mini "handbraking" 24/7.
And it does work perfect. It works so perfectly that it even throttles itself down in order to keep working perfectly.

And I won't mod it. I'll mod a bottom cover I bought on ebay.

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Originally Posted by Darby67 View Post
I've been doing HB for for over 18 hours with CPU pushing 95 - 100% per core: 1080P, h264. Temp hasn't eclipsed 90C. No special modifications, no throttling no nothing other than a machine that is an incredible speed improvement over the 2.0 i7 server.

There are no issues with temp and I would not suggest anybody will be ripped off. For people that feel it's necessary to utilize other cooling ideas, it's a free world, but not necessary.
What room temp do you have? I checked someone else's Mini and does the same thing, plus the ones who posted in this thread.
You gotta be doing something different, as everyone seems to get 95C-105C in high CPU loads.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:38 PM   #45
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It's currently 22C, down to about 18C at night.

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What room temp do you have? I checked someone else's Mini and does the same thing, plus the ones who posted in this thread.
You gotta be doing something different, as everyone seems to get 95C-105C in high CPU loads.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 04:43 PM   #46
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It's currently 22C, down to about 18C at night.
What are the readings for your Ambient 1 and 2 in the Mini?
Is your CPU at 100% all the time? There's gotta be something and I wanna know what it is!

EDIT: When your temp is fixed at 90C, what rpm does the fan spin at? Just wondering.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:17 PM   #47
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I've been doing HB for for over 18 hours with CPU pushing 95 - 100% per core: 1080P, h264. Temp hasn't eclipsed 90C. No special modifications, no throttling no nothing other than a machine that is an incredible speed improvement over the 2.0 i7 server.
Why do you think your machine is coping with Handbrake with no throttling back while a couple of others are seeing their machines get too hot doing the same thing? My main reason for wanting to upgrade is to speed up Handbrake.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:19 PM   #48
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Easier to give a screen shot.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dasx View Post
What are the readings for your Ambient 1 and 2 in the Mini?
Is your CPU at 100% all the time? There's gotta be something and I wanna know what it is!

EDIT: When your temp is fixed at 90C, what rpm does the fan spin at? Just wondering.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:24 PM   #49
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Why do you think your machine is coping with Handbrake with no throttling back while a couple of others are seeing their machines get too hot doing the same thing? My main reason for wanting to upgrade is to speed up Handbrake.
What's your current machine? Cause even if the CPU got throttled at lets say 80% it would still be faster than my girl's 2012 MBA and MUCH more faster than my old Mini 2010.

Check this.

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Originally Posted by Darby67 View Post
Easier to give a screen shot.

Image
Ahhhh. OK OK. I was talking all the time about the CPU1 and CPU2 temps. Yours seem to be around 95C as well. And fans almost at their top.

If your room is 5C cooler than mine then that'd be a good reason why I hit 100C and you don't. Also, I was checking this a couple of minutes ago and I think mine isn't that well ventilated. (Has wood on one side and a hard drive at the other. (both touching it).

Will try again tomorrow putting it on a table and see if I manage to stay below 100C and therefore CPU throttling.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 05:49 PM   #50
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HB isn't the first purpose of this little guy, but it certainly does a nice job at it. THe screen shot is a slightly modified High Profile setting which I don't normally use, but it seems to stress the system a bit more. Normally I just do a straight CQ 20 setting, h.264, constant framerate, etc because it suits my visual media needs.

As for reasons why my machine is coping and others are having issues, not sure. I will say for me some benchmarks are fun to look at but don't necessarily suggest what actually happens in the real world.


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Why do you think your machine is coping with Handbrake with no throttling back while a couple of others are seeing their machines get too hot doing the same thing? My main reason for wanting to upgrade is to speed up Handbrake.
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