Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:24 PM   #26
myrtlebee
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
I didn't like George W. Bush. I wouldn't have voted for him (I was 12/16 in 00/04). But you know what? Once he won, and was inaugurated as President, I respected that. Any true American should respect the office and institution regardless of if your guy won or not. THAT is the American way.
If Romney wins, this will be an incredible feat for me to attempt to achieve. I do not respect him as a person, nor will I ever. The problem is -- where does one draw the line of "respect for the office" vs. "respect for the individual"?
myrtlebee is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:40 PM   #27
rdowns
macrumors Penryn
 
rdowns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Rudy Giuliani is a ****ing tool. He exists solely to be a Republican attack dog. New York state voters rejected his ass as did national voters.
rdowns is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:41 PM   #28
NewbieCanada
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Disgusting and extremely un-American.


I didn't like George W. Bush. I wouldn't have voted for him (I was 12/16 in 00/04). But you know what? Once he won, and was inaugurated as President, I respected that. Any true American should respect the office and institution regardless of if your guy won or not. THAT is the American way.
Or in Bush's case, stole it.
__________________
nMP 6-core, D500, 32 GB, 1 TB rMBP 13" '13 2.4 gHz, 256 GB, 8GB iPhone 6 Plus 128GB Silver iPhone 5 64GB iPad Air 128
NewbieCanada is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:43 PM   #29
Renzatic
macrumors 604
 
Renzatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: HEY!
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
If Romney wins, this will be an incredible feat for me to attempt to achieve. I do not respect him as a person, nor will I ever. The problem is -- where does one draw the line of "respect for the office" vs. "respect for the individual"?
They way I see it, your average citizen should view the president as the guy we hired to get a job done. If he doesn't live up to his promises, we have every right to bitch, moan, and groan.

Then you have congress, the house, SCOTUS, ect. who should respect the office a little more than they currently are. They don't have to agree with the president 100% on every issue, but they also shouldn't view him as "the enemy" and refuse to work with him simply because he's in the opposing party. They all have a job to do, a job that shouldn't be gridlocked due to petty politics.
Renzatic is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:30 PM   #30
citizenzen
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Curious about your thoughts on what Rudy Giuliani had to say about Obama's commitment to resign if.....
My thoughts?

Giuliani is a twit.

Although I had a different vowel in mind for that description.
citizenzen is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:53 PM   #31
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieCanada View Post
Or in Bush's case, stole it.
And yet we STILL respected him as the President. Take note, tea party.
zioxide is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:54 PM   #32
Peace
macrumors P6
 
Peace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Space--The ONLY Frontier
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
And yet we STILL respected him as the President. Take note, tea party.
Speak for yourself. I never respected Bush. As President or as a human being.
Peace is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 04:59 PM   #33
tshrimp
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewbieCanada View Post
Or in Bush's case, stole it.
Confused here. Maybe because you are from Canada, but here in the United States of America whoever gets the most Electoral College votes becomes the president.

Last edited by tshrimp; Nov 5, 2012 at 05:07 PM.
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:01 PM   #34
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Confused here. Maybe because you are from Canada, but here in the United States of America whoever gets the most Electoral Collage votes becomes the president.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._Florida,_2000
zioxide is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:03 PM   #35
tshrimp
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Thanks for the link, and as you see in the link Bush also won Florida, but was very close.
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:04 PM   #36
APlotdevice
macrumors 68020
 
APlotdevice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
You know this doesn't seem like a very effective strategy on Rudy's part. It makes it sound like he isn't confident that his candidate can win the election.
__________________
There is something deeply wrong with a society more offended by breasts than by entrails.
Pebble SmartWatch | iPhone 5c | 11" Macbook Air '13 | HTPC | TV | Numerous Old Consoles
APlotdevice is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:04 PM   #37
Grey Beard
macrumors 6502a
 
Grey Beard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The Antipodes.
Send a message via AIM to Grey Beard
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Confused here. Here in the United States of America whoever gets the most Electoral Collage votes becomes the president.
Down here, a collage is a paste up job. Oh I see what you were implying.

KGB
__________________
I am what I am.
Grey Beard is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:06 PM   #38
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Thanks for the link, and as you see in the link Bush also won Florida, but was very close.
Yes, if you just look at the heading on the page.

Take a read over the pages and pages detailing all of the controversy surrounding Bush's "win" and you'll see why many people still remain skeptical that he actually won that election.
zioxide is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:11 PM   #39
tshrimp
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey Beard View Post
Down here, a collage is a paste up job. Oh I see what you were implying.

KGB
Good catch...fixed

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Yes, if you just look at the heading on the page.

Take a read over the pages and pages detailing all of the controversy surrounding Bush's "win" and you'll see why many people still remain skeptical that he actually won that election.
I did read it and lived it at the time. Bush by all measures won that race. No matter how hard the Democrats tried to steal this race it didn't happen and the process prevailed.

http://www.fraudfactor.com/ffef2kcountways.html

Also the "confusing" ballot issue in Palm Beach was another reach for the Dems. My wife gave the exact ballot to her Elementary School classes and guess what...they were able to vote as they were instructed with 100% accuracy. She at least expected a mistake of some kind, but there were none.

Last edited by tshrimp; Nov 5, 2012 at 05:16 PM.
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:17 PM   #40
SlasherDuff
macrumors 6502a
 
SlasherDuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gator Country
Yes
__________________
Gold/ 128gb iPhone 6 plus, late 2013 rMacBook Pro Haswell 15", 128gb iPad Air, with product RED smart case
SlasherDuff is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:29 PM   #41
Moyank24
macrumors 68040
 
Moyank24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: in a New York State of mind
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Also the "confusing" ballot issue in Palm Beach was another reach for the Dems. My wife gave the exact ballot to her Elementary School classes and guess what...they were able to vote as they were instructed with 100% accuracy. She at least expected a mistake of some kind, but there were none.

So, basically, your wife has proven that elementary school children are smarter than the senior citizens (ahem "adult population") of Palm Beach.
Moyank24 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:40 PM   #42
tshrimp
Thread Starter
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
So, basically, your wife has proven that elementary school children are smarter than the senior citizens (ahem "adult population") of Palm Beach.
Nope. What I am saying is that the argument was very weak as I think the people of Florida are intelligent, and that the confusing ballot argument was contrived.
tshrimp is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:53 PM   #43
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Nope. What I am saying is that the argument was very weak as I think the people of Florida are intelligent, and that the confusing ballot argument was contrived.
Confusing ballots was 1 of about 10 problems Florida had with that election.

There were also votes that weren't counted, etc.


Either way, the Democrats have long since moved on from here. Just pointing out that even though we got screwed in 2000, we still accepted Bush as President once he was inaugurated.
zioxide is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 06:26 PM   #44
hulugu
macrumors 68000
 
hulugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: the faraway towns
It's the kind of typical fiery red-meat speech you'd expect in the closing days of an election, but to give it any kind of seriousness, as if this was a thoughtful politician describing why the President should resign, is ridiculous and at this point completely disingenuous.

First, lots of Presidents have had to shift on their policies, George H.W. Bush famously said "read my lips, no new taxes" and then had to react to changing circumstances.

And, his son said of Bin Laden "I want justice. There is an old poster out west, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted dead or alive'" and then a few years later said, "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."

The idea that Obama should resign because of one errant quote is silly. And, it's simply fascinating how various conservative apparatchiks have hammered the president on the consulate attack when from 2000-2008 there were 64 individual attacks on US diplomatic targets.

Yeah, 64.

In one incident alone in 2008, 10 were killed by a car bomb in Yemen.

In another in 2002, 10 died when gunman assaulted the consulate in Karachi, Pakistan.

In 2004, 8 died when the US consulate in Saudi Arabia was hit.

And, yet Republicans took this as a sign of the deadliness of the war on terror, but now it's a great crime that the President apparently "allowed" men in Benghazi to attack the facility.

The reality is consulate work is dangerous, especially in a country that has just endured a civil war and is caught between the forces of modernity and fundamentalism.

Politics has allowed this to become a circular firing squad, rather than a nod to the hard reality that Libya is in flux and unless we act accordingly, the country may become mired in civil war and become a new training ground for fighters like Iraq was.

Here's a chart. Being a diplomat today is safer than it's been in twenty years:



Note: yes the link is from Mother Jones, but the data is from the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism and the State Department. And MJ was kind enough to provide a color-coded chart.
__________________
I look like a soldier; I feel like a thief
hulugu is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 06:52 PM   #45
zioxide
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
And, yet Republicans took this as a sign of the deadliness of the war on terror, but now it's a great crime that the President apparently "allowed" men in Benghazi to attack the facility.
Yep. He "allowed" them to attack. He personally opened the gates, opened up a case of beer, and got on a megaphone saying "FREE BEER TO ANYONE WHO ATTACKS OUR EMBASSY".

See, I can make up **** that's just as ridiculous and untrue as the right.
zioxide is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 07:35 PM   #46
hulugu
macrumors 68000
 
hulugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: the faraway towns
Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Yep. He "allowed" them to attack. He personally opened the gates, opened up a case of beer, and got on a megaphone saying "FREE BEER TO ANYONE WHO ATTACKS OUR EMBASSY".

See, I can make up **** that's just as ridiculous and untrue as the right.
That's essentially the argument, though, isn't it?

Everything else is an attempt to put some spin on this ideology, whether the president was too busy campaigning, going to bed, or telling the CIA to stand down, the whole lie has been built around this idea.

It's a pernicious lie from people who should know better.
__________________
I look like a soldier; I feel like a thief
hulugu is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 07:55 PM   #47
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
That's essentially the argument, though, isn't it?

Everything else is an attempt to put some spin on this ideology, whether the president was too busy campaigning, going to bed, or telling the CIA to stand down, the whole lie has been built around this idea.

It's a pernicious lie from people who should know better.
Well, you know, General Ham was fired because he wanted to provide more protection to the diplomats. Heinous, I tell you, just despicable.

Let me see, Carter F. Ham, commander of American operations in Africa. Hmm, that is a funny way to get fired. I wonder who made that claim. Oh, here it is, our old friend the Moonie Times ran a story that they got from Tiger Droppings, a publication devoted to LSU sports.

Did the left reach this much when attacking the previous president?
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 08:36 PM   #48
hulugu
macrumors 68000
 
hulugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: the faraway towns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydde View Post
Well, you know, General Ham was fired because he wanted to provide more protection to the diplomats. Heinous, I tell you, just despicable.

Let me see, Carter F. Ham, commander of American operations in Africa. Hmm, that is a funny way to get fired. I wonder who made that claim. Oh, here it is, our old friend the Moonie Times ran a story that they got from Tiger Droppings, a publication devoted to LSU sports.

Did the left reach this much when attacking the previous president?
This is interesting, if I understand the WT article's scenario, the White House didn't want Gen. Ham to send in a contingent of troops because they feared a "Blackhawk Down" scenario. So, since Ham tried to ignore the stand-down order, he's being rotated out?

That's the big conspiracy?

So, a military officer wanted to send in his own forces despite orders from the White House—which knew that CIA officers were already on the scene and by that point the consulate was compromised—and he's going to face the consequences?

Look, peeps. The military follows civilian orders. That's the chain of command. A major military officer who goes all Gene Hackman knows that he's breaking that chain. The White House may have been wrong about the situation and they might have saved the two CIA officers, but Ham's action might also have put more men into Benghazi and stirred up a hornet's nest, getting more people killed and even more people who would claim that Pres. Obama should "retire."
__________________
I look like a soldier; I feel like a thief
hulugu is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 08:59 PM   #49
iJohnHenry
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: On tenterhooks
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
Look, peeps. The military follows civilian orders. That's the chain of command. A major military officer who goes all Gene Hackman knows that he's breaking that chain.
I was thinking along the lines of Burt Lancaster in Seven Days In May, but it's the same concept.
iJohnHenry is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:17 PM   #50
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
Look, peeps. The military follows civilian orders. That's the chain of command.
Well, your name could also be Salvador Allende Gossens.
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should Shinseki Resign? Southern Dad Politics, Religion, Social Issues 64 Jun 11, 2014 11:48 PM
Sebelius Said to Resign as U.S. Health Secretary rdowns Politics, Religion, Social Issues 18 Apr 11, 2014 08:50 PM
Pope Benedict XVI to Resign ucfgrad93 Current Events 1 Feb 11, 2013 11:15 AM
Bloomberg Endorses Obama, Obama is Best Candidate to Tackle Climate Change 184550 Politics, Religion, Social Issues 30 Nov 2, 2012 02:49 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC