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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:07 PM   #476
Gnomepatrol
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Originally Posted by gotluck View Post
no more bootcamp?
Windows 8 is arm compatible there should be no issue running boot camp.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:08 PM   #477
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You do realise that ARM isn't Apple's own chips, they are a British company who Apple have worked closely with for a number of years and at one point had a share in them but don't at the moment. And before anyone says it, they Apple won't be able to buy out ARM.
That was true for the A4/A5/A5X, which used Cortex cores.

But the A6 uses an Apple-designed core called "Swift." (An apple core?)
They built their own CPU that uses the ARM instruction set.

Read more here:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/t...one-5-review/6


Apple is already in the CPU-building business. You can bet their roadmap includes building their own Mac CPU's in 5+ years.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:08 PM   #478
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sigh...

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

Does everyone at Apple have amnesia?

From sku-creep, to the iOSication of MacOS X (reminds me of At Ease).. to custom processors for their computers... The 90s seem to be back...That's not a good thing by the way..

Sadly, the vast majority at the top of Apple now, don't remember Apple back then, don't remember the mistakes... they seem to feel indestructible and infallible..

This will end badly..
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:09 PM   #479
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Originally Posted by chorner View Post
WRONG!

The only reason Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro is because there isn't a solid enough platform yet to replace the current Mac Pro line. Wait until the next Intel workstation chipset (and compatible CPU) which fully support 6+ cores with USB 3 and Thunderbolt - then you'll see the new Mac Pro.
Intel already has Xeon motherboards out that support 8 cores per chip, upwards of 16 cores in a dual CPU configuration. Such as the HP Z820, which offers everything you've listed and more, and is readily available for around the same price as the Pro. Well, everything besides Thunderbolt, which makes you wonder why Apple hasn't been putting pressure on Intel to release a pro-line chipset that supports it. I mean it is Apple's baby and all, one of their big selling points. You'd think they'd be doing everything they can to have it included in their top dog machine. Hmm.

The main reason why people aren't buying the Pro now is because they're paying top dollar for hardware that's 3 years out of date. Why pay $2000+ for that, when you can get more up to date hardware for the exact same price?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:12 PM   #480
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This will not end well. It really won't.

The big draw for a Mac to me was the x86 architecture. The Intel processors. The ability to bootcamp Windows. The compatibility right now for Mac is excellent. It works.

Change up the processor to Arm - it's a slippery slope people. Until its tried and true, I do not want to be a live beta tester for that fiasco.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:12 PM   #481
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Let's not get too hasty here. IF this is true, I'm not sure we should be declaring how much better Intel is over "what's behind that curtain" just yet. Apple has a lot of money and quite a bit of expertise designing chips. One hopes that if they are considering a switch away then they may have good reasons for doing so. If they found away to leapfrog whatever Intel is doing, shouldn't we at least hear the news or presentation before saying it's a bad idea? Intel is a great company but I can't be as certain as some of you that their products are automatically better than anything else that could ever come out.

Last edited by MisterK; Nov 5, 2012 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Spelling
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:13 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by Gnomepatrol View Post
Windows 8 is arm compatible there should be no issue running boot camp.
Get a grip mate ! windows rt doesnt support legacy software and thats not even the problem the thing is microsoft have yet to offer windows rt licenses nor have such plans atm.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:15 PM   #483
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Intel already has Xeon motherboards out that support 8 cores per chip, upwards of 16 cores in a dual CPU configuration. Such as the HP Z820, which offers everything you've listed and more, and is readily available for around the same price as the Pro.
That HP is considerably more expensive, a single 8 core version starts at $4.999 with 4GB ram and no graphics card.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:15 PM   #484
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Then buy an external or get a PC.


i already have, i am just disgusted with apple's excuse for not using blu-ray.

what company would push a digital store and pay a rival a premium for their blu-ray technology, which encourages a source of content outside itunes?

apple supported consumers turning their CD's into MP3's because that suited them. but the same never happened for DVD's, Home movies, tv shows or blu-rays. because they want you to buy from itunes. that simple.

as for this ARM thing, i trust apple not to alienate the Computing market which is now beginning to gain momentum for them.

i speculate that apple is wondering which processor design is the future for supporting power and energy consumption that can run 1 OS designed for mobile and Computers.

its either intel comes up with something for mobile and replaces ARM.

or ARM comes up with something that apple can use to exceed or atleast reasonably compete closely with intel.

because the truth is obvious:

iOS and OS X are sexually attracted to each other, and are flirting with each others features being incorporated. they want to get married as soon as possible.

need a CPU that has a future to make this union compatible, and work smoothly.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:18 PM   #485
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Quadcore A15 based, touchscreen laptops are going to take a big bite out of MBA's market share over the next year.

Apple must respond soon with its own ARM based MBA solution. The larger move to move pro Mac models to ARM is probably years away, but the ARM MBA is sooner than you think.

Charlie D of Semiaccurate and Anad Shimpi can back that up..
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:19 PM   #486
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Right, but to develop for those mobile devices legally you have to have a Mac. I don't want to develop for just Apple products. I only switched to Mac in '06 with the 1st gen MBP because I could dual/triple boot if I wanted. So if there are more devs like myself that wouldn't make this switch, who is making the apps for those devices?

Of course I could change my mind by the time this would actually happen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
For computers but Apple's largest money maker runs ARM chips so even if their Macs stopped selling as much because of a move away from Intel they'd still be fine.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:20 PM   #487
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Originally Posted by Aidan5806 View Post
I know this is unlikely, but maybe Apple can work one on one with intel and ARM to develop a chip that has the performances of an intel chip, the efficiency of an ARM architecture, and the ability to run the programs of both......if any company in the world could do it, it would be Apple. I believe that if a chip that was the best of both worlds it would be a huge hit, plus it would give ARm an edge in the PC industry, and intel an edge in the mobile industry. I know its optimistic but i would gladly be the one to work to lead the charge should the capabilities be given to me.
I don't think ARM is the solution. Not for laptops and desktops. AMD would be a much better Partner for an all-in-one high performance solution
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:26 PM   #488
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I don't think they'll release anything that's slower than what's already on the market. In fact, if they switch to something different I can just imagine them resurrecting their little comparison test from old keynotes where Jobs and Schiller would compare a Mac to the fastest PC on the market and show the Mac crushing the PC. :P

In other news, to all of you "power" or "pro" users: Apple needs Macs to make their own stuff. Do you think they design OS X software on an iPad? They're not going to hurt themselves anymore than they're going to hurt the millions that buy Macs every year. Macs are here to stay.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:27 PM   #489
csHokie
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Originally Posted by Woodcrest64 View Post
... It also makes sense if they keep pushing OSX closer to iOS...
I wish they would stop...
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:27 PM   #490
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Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
That HP is considerably more expensive, a single 8 core version starts at $4.999 with 4GB ram and no graphics card.
I'm looking at the spec sheet right now. $3999 for a Quatro 4000 2GB workstation card, 8GB, and a 4 core CPU.

But you are right, a similarly speced Mac Pro costs $3799, and gets you a dualie 12 core setup with 12GB ram. The only downside is the graphics card, a Radeon HD 5770. Not bad, but it's a desktop rev, not a workstation card.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:27 PM   #491
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APPLE could be going down because..

the original apple i knew, was interested in making the BEST computers, and the BEST devices.

if ARM can't compete with intel, then apple's new direction is clear and matching their other aggressive moves:

go for volume, not for the best product. that is.. as far as computers are concerned, maybe best mobile computers.

apple has alienated their original market: professionals, creatives, power users.

since apple became a mobile device company, its been more about selling the most, the numbers. sure, when it comes to MACS they dont show presentations in their past talking about how many macs they were selling, because they always said - we dont intend to sell the most computers, but the best ones.

things have changed..

ios is seeping into OS X (which i dont mind), Apple has tasted what LOTS OF MONEY TASTES LIKE. and they like it. ALOT. so much, that they want their macs to sell as much as their mobile iDevices. and guess what? Mountain lion and macs are selling more than they used since they began focusing their target market as consumers, and less pro. mountain lion doesn't try to sell to professionals, but consumers.

apple, are now prioritising what wins the most market, not what makes the best computers anymore. and if they choose arm, and its not better than intel, then apple will have shown their new colours loud and clear. and it wont be the original 6 apple colors that they used to 'bleed'.

Apple will either do one of two things:

transition 4: intel to - something else.. arm?

or..

they will gently introduce their future direction in one product, and as already pointed out by some here - they will 'test' this new direction with probably the macbook air. or some new line of device.

if it sells well, then they will bring that direction to their other products. thats what apple does best. it started with no cd drive in the macbook air, then to macbook pros, then to imacs.

and the same happened with iPhone touch screens, then to iPods,, then tablets arrived.

and flash storage.. same thing.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:29 PM   #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subsonix View Post
That HP is considerably more expensive, a single 8 core version starts at $4.999 with 4GB ram and no graphics card.
Thats a 16 core not an 8 core. Its a dual 8 core system.

For less money if you don't want a 16 core you can get this 8 core.

http://shopping1.hp.com/is-bin/INTER...wAAAE2AQ9ObE8C

Also, if you haven't noticed those have
1125W 90% efficient, wide ranging, active PFC (apple does not use power supplies of this quality which are optimal for mission critical machines like part of a rendering farm or a VM host which is likely what a machine like this would be used for. )
Cable Lock Support (standard - cable optional)
Chassis Intrusion Sensor (standard)
Serial, Parallel, USB, Audio, Network Enable/Disable (standard)
Removable Media Write/Boot Control (standard)
4 USB 3.0
5 USB 2.0
2 IEEE 1394a
2 microphone
1 audio line out
1 headphone
1 audio line in
1 serial
2 PS/2 (keyboard & mouse)
2 RJ-45 to integrated Gigabit LAN
1 22-in-1 media card reader
Protected by HP Services, including a 3 years parts, 3 years labor, and 3 years onsite service (3/3/3) standard warranty.

The Mac pro does not offer anything close to this level of a pro machine. Also the mac pro is using outdated 2-3 year old cpu's in the mac pro. This is using current generation xeons released this year. Trust me, they completely wipe the floor with the 8 core mac pro.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:31 PM   #493
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Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
and then...
"Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!"
How did no one else give props to this Ghostbusters reference?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:33 PM   #494
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Intel are thugs. The only company that they do business with and don't push around are Apple. I'm sure Apple hates Intel's price gouging, even Apple gets poked by Intel.

Intel's price gouging is also ruining their(Intel's) chance at making Ultrabooks a viable option for a lot of people. Their CPUs are too high. The reason UBs have came down in price(a little) is not from Intel lowering the price to a reasonable level, it's from cheaper materials and lower quality. The Ultrabook not only will fail, it is a done deal. Thank you Intel.

I hope and pray that Apple dumps Intel BUT.......ARM has a long way to go to catch up with Intel's mobile chips. The desktop....that will be a LONG time but Apple doesn't sell many of those anyway. Sorry.

ARM notebooks are already here....The new Samsung/Google Chromebook is ARM and is $249. WinRT Tablets are ARM too..Duh...LOL, well they are notebook-ISH. In a year or two, ARM will pass AMD's mobile chips in speed. Whose next?

Forgive the rant.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:34 PM   #495
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I'm looking at the spec sheet right now. $3999 for a Quatro 4000 2GB workstation card, 8GB, and a 4 core CPU.

But you are right, a similarly speced Mac Pro costs $3799, and gets you a dualie 12 core setup with 12GB ram. The only downside is the graphics card, a Radeon HD 5770. Not bad, but it's a desktop rev, not a workstation card.
Yes, but that is with a 4 core CPU, but you went on about 8 and 16 cores which would be an upgrade, but is also considerably more expensive.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:34 PM   #496
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Originally Posted by jwdsail View Post
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it...

Does everyone at Apple have amnesia?

From sku-creep, to the iOSication of MacOS X (reminds me of At Ease).. to custom processors for their computers... The 90s seem to be back...That's not a good thing by the way..

Sadly, the vast majority at the top of Apple now, don't remember Apple back then, don't remember the mistakes... they seem to feel indestructible and infallible..

This will end badly..
Yes, but there were no ARM Instruction Sets then. I see this differently.

Time will tell.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:37 PM   #497
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Yes, but that is with a 4 core CPU, but you went on about 8 and 16 cores which would be an upgrade, but is also considerably more expensive.
Yeah, you get more bang for the buck with the Mac option, but more potential for upgrades and a slightly more modern platform with the Z820.

Plus you can upgrade to 512GB ram on the high end Z line. I'm not sure how that works, but...man. That's a buncha gigawotzits.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:37 PM   #498
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Originally Posted by iOrbit View Post
APPLE could be going down because..

the original apple i knew, was interested in making the BEST computers, and the BEST devices.

if ARM can't compete with intel, then apple's new direction is clear and matching their other aggressive moves:

go for volume, not for the best product. that is.. as far as computers are concerned, maybe best mobile computers.

apple has alienated their original market: professionals, creatives, power users.

since apple became a mobile device company, its been more about selling the most, the numbers. sure, when it comes to MACS they dont show presentations in their past talking about how many macs they were selling, because they always said - we dont intend to sell the most computers, but the best ones.

things have changed..

ios is seeping into OS X (which i dont mind), Apple has tasted what LOTS OF MONEY TASTES LIKE. and they like it. ALOT. so much, that they want their macs to sell as much as their mobile iDevices. and guess what? Mountain lion and macs are selling more than they used since they began focusing their target market as consumers, and less pro. mountain lion doesn't try to sell to professionals, but consumers.

apple, are now prioritising what wins the most market, not what makes the best computers anymore. and if they choose arm, and its not better than intel, then apple will have shown their new colours loud and clear. and it wont be the original 6 apple colors that they used to 'bleed'.

Apple will either do one of two things:

transition 4: intel to - something else.. arm?

or..

they will gently introduce their future direction in one product, and as already pointed out by some here - they will 'test' this new direction with probably the macbook air. or some new line of device.

if it sells well, then they will bring that direction to their other products. thats what apple does best. it started with no cd drive in the macbook air, then to macbook pros, then to imacs.

and the same happened with iPhone touch screens, then to iPods,, then tablets arrived.

and flash storage.. same thing.
One could argue that Apple taking control of their CPU technology is aligned with delivering the best computer or device they can. How can they offer you the best computer if they are using the same processors that everyone is?

While the original markets of professionals, creatives and power users are thanked for their loyalty let us acknowledge that it was not these markets that fueled the newfound Apple success but rather the rank and file consumer that bought up iPods. The rest is history.

The next 5 years are shaping up to be fantastic. Whatever direction the market heads it it is going to be a dogfight to remain on top.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:38 PM   #499
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Originally Posted by blackhand1001 View Post
Way to pick the one thats priced the worse. Two spots over this one is in the same series for less with the 8 core as well, 16gb of ram for less money.
Sigh, does it really matter $4,299 is still more than $3.799 (12 core Mac Pro) and 12 cores is more than 8.

As a side note, the reality is that the workstation market is becoming more niche as time and mores law goes on, a lot can be done on smaller cheaper devices today that was impossible without a fully speced workstation just half a decade ago. This and simple laws of economics dictates that prices will rise.

I see you edited your post, I'm not interested in a spec comparison battle.

Last edited by subsonix; Nov 5, 2012 at 09:43 PM.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:39 PM   #500
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Yes, but there were no ARM Instruction Sets then. I see this differently.
...so? What's your point?
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