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Old Nov 6, 2012, 01:54 PM   #26
JamSandwich
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Reposting from the "are all PC monitors garbage? thread. Note that further to my post in this thread, although things are muched improved via DVI (attached via the HDMI-DVI adapter provided with the Mini) -- the signal is now RGB instead of YUV -- the display range is still 16-235 rather than 0-255.

Quote:
Well, after fighting with the current monitor I'm using via an HDMI connection, a DVI cable provided instant results as well as pleasing results after calibration.

Not sure about color accuracy right now, but the image is night-and-day better than it was using HDMI -- I spent most of my evening last night trying to tweak it through OSX's calibration wizard. Took two shots today to get it where I wanted (two because I realized I needed to reset brightness and contrast on the monitor).
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 01:56 PM   #27
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Not sure if this thread will help some people:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1484169

Worked for me
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 05:05 PM   #28
tablatom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lhjelm View Post
I have an LG IPS monitor (IPS277) with HDMI and VGA inputs and are experiencing the same problem when using HDMI-HDMI and Mini DisplayPort-HDMI but not when using Mini DisplayPort-VGA.

My monitor worked fine with my previous Mac Mini (early 2009) using a DVI-HDMI cable and the new Mac Mini works with a Samsung DVI monitor (SyncMaster 2243BW) when using HDMI-DVI and Mini DisplayPort-DVI.

So I guess it's a driver issue.

PS
One simple test is the Gmail login screen. It should be a grey box around the username/password fields but it's not showing when using the HDMI output.
+1 with the Gmail login box. AND yahoo.com
There are no light greys shown.
With a 2012 MBP its perfect.
I work with logic pro so its not a big deal, but i'd imagine working with graphics would be impossible.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:39 PM   #29
The K Man
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In addition to the crushed whites and black/snow screens, i'm now experiencing a new issue where my entire screen went pinkish. I had handBrake going for ~1 hour and when I came back and the display turned back on, everything had a intense pink tone. I was able to fix it by restarting the computer. Anyone else experience this?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:56 PM   #30
nifmus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamSandwich View Post
Reposting from the "are all PC monitors garbage? thread. Note that further to my post in this thread, although things are muched improved via DVI (attached via the HDMI-DVI adapter provided with the Mini) -- the signal is now RGB instead of YUV -- the display range is still 16-235 rather than 0-255.
Excellent and therein lies the problem here as most TVs do not support DVI inputs.

With the Apple TV you could select between these two outputs as part of the configuration. Ideally I'd like to be able to do so in System Preferences as there are so many combinations of TV and connectors out there that whilst 'auto' sensing may work for a large majority, the ability to tweak this one simple characteristic would cater for a lot of the rest.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 08:13 PM   #31
JamSandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nifmus View Post
Excellent and therein lies the problem here as most TVs do not support DVI inputs.

With the Apple TV you could select between these two outputs as part of the configuration. Ideally I'd like to be able to do so in System Preferences as there are so many combinations of TV and connectors out there that whilst 'auto' sensing may work for a large majority, the ability to tweak this one simple characteristic would cater for a lot of the rest.
Indeed. These are times like these when I miss the generally broader access to settings provided in the Windows world.

I've used Macs at work forever, and I've been a happy Mac owner at home since the Intel transition... but this week is the first time in quite some time I've really thought about a move back to Windows. Doubt I will, but I really don't know how these issues -- apparently fairly widespread -- make it into a released product.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by The K Man View Post
In addition to the crushed whites and black/snow screens, i'm now experiencing a new issue where my entire screen went pinkish. I had handBrake going for ~1 hour and when I came back and the display turned back on, everything had a intense pink tone. I was able to fix it by restarting the computer. Anyone else experience this?
Happened to me when I was transferring data over via my TM backup. Didn't worry about it... thought it might have been a handshake problem between TV and computer (HDMI), but I really don't know. When I checked on the progress later, the display appeared fine.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 12:51 AM   #32
ZaYoOoD
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Ok.. this is really bothering me!
The whites are so bright and crushed, the screen cannot differentiate between yellow and green!

Apple has to fix this, and they have to fix this quickly!

----------

Ok, I just made sure that the problem is in the HDMI cable. When I activate AirPlay Mirroring to my Apple TV, colours are good and fine.
When I use my Mac Mini through HDMI cable, it is too bright and crushed whites!
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:41 AM   #33
DitteVilladsen
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Is there some sort of test pattern file or utility for objectively evaluating this?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:52 AM   #34
koyeung
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try these:
http://www.photofriday.com/calibrate.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php


Quote:
Originally Posted by DitteVilladsen View Post
Is there some sort of test pattern file or utility for objectively evaluating this?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:20 PM   #35
Negritude
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Just curious, but for those people having calibration or color issues via HDMI, are you running your monitor in Computer mode and not TV mode? In other words, is it set to just scan (overscan and underscan are disabled)? That's been the cause of a lot of problems people have with HDMI connections, the monitor is being detected as a TV.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 07:43 PM   #36
nifmus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Negritude View Post
Just curious, but for those people having calibration or color issues via HDMI, are you running your monitor in Computer mode and not TV mode? In other words, is it set to just scan (overscan and underscan are disabled)? That's been the cause of a lot of problems people have with HDMI connections, the monitor is being detected as a TV.
It's the opposite for me. I'm connecting to a TV and the TV is being detected as a monitor.

>>waiting patiently for an apple fix<<
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:48 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poloponies View Post
Have the latest-gen 55" 3D Vizio. Picture perfect the minuter I hooked it up. Ditto my 42" 3D Vizio. Thinking about picking up a second Mini now. Absolutely love it.

As a total aside, I couldn't be happier with the current generation of Vizio LED TVs. Really awesome picture quality for the price. My only disappointment is that for a TV with a bluetooth remote they could write a killer app for the iPhone - but so far, nothing.
Thanks for letting me know in case I pick one up down the road. This is off topic though who makes Vizio panels anyway?
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 12:42 PM   #38
lhjelm
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Apple are aware

Just reported the HDMI "color" issue to Apple care. I explained all the tests I have performed and after the mandatory resets (SMC, NVRAM) he called up Apple's senior support (something with "senior" in the title anyway). After a while he came back and said that "enough" number of people had reported the same issue and that it likely was a fault in color handling over HDMI and told me to wait for a firmware update.

As always, the more people that report the bug the more likely it is that it get fixed.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 07:58 AM   #39
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My developer friend got hold of the 10.8.3 beta stand alone update for me and after installing the color space issues have been resolved. I can once again see the alternating horizontal stripes in the finder window and black levels and white levels are as they should be.

2 things I did notice though:

- The color space issue is corrected when connected via HDMI directly. If you use a display port to HDMI adaptor, the issue still persists.

- When accessing the 10.8.3 machine via "Screen Sharing" from another mac, all you get is a white screen.

So there still seems to be some issue but the main concern I had has been addressed. Hopefully the public release address the other 2 issues I'm seeing now.

Cheers,
Steve
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 08:03 AM   #40
blanka
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Just let your TV treat HDMI as sRGB source and play monitor. TV's should do that anyway in a digital 2012 world. Throwing away 37%* of the potential colors and clipping off pixels is wacko .

*1-(220^3)/(2^24)
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 10:18 AM   #41
sno1man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nifmus View Post
My developer friend got hold of the 10.8.3 beta stand alone update for me and after installing the color space issues have been resolved. I can once again see the alternating horizontal stripes in the finder window and black levels and white levels are as they should be.

2 things I did notice though:

- The color space issue is corrected when connected via HDMI directly. If you use a display port to HDMI adaptor, the issue still persists.

- When accessing the 10.8.3 machine via "Screen Sharing" from another mac, all you get is a white screen.

So there still seems to be some issue but the main concern I had has been addressed. Hopefully the public release address the other 2 issues I'm seeing now.

Cheers,
Steve
I'll add on and amplify what Steve reported. I was the one that started the "are all pc monitors garbage" thread after getting frustrating results with 4 different displays.

I ended up keeping the Dell 2440 in the belief (naive hope?) that Apple would fix this quickly.

I did report the problem to Apple and they have asked me for multiple pieces of info including sending log files and a copy of the color profile I created with the Colorsync tool which helped somewhat but also created it's own issues. (totally screwed up printing)

As part of that Apple also sent me a beta of OSX 10.8.3. I can report that it does fix the issue, to the point where doing a calibration actually produces a very high quality image.

As he also mentioned, at this point the 10.8.3 update only seems to fix the issue with a straight HDMI-HDMI connection. If I connect the monitor via TB to HDMI adapter it still looks bad.

Reported that to Apple as well and they replicated. The agent I emailed with said they "hoped" to fix the issue before the public release of the 10.8.3 update.

However he did add one bit of doubt... He said that part of the issue with some displays was a subtle handshaking issue where some displays (like my dell) were not always identifying themselves properly. This is what's behind some units showing up as a TV instead of a monitor in the Apple display control panel. The other dead giveaway that this is occurring is if you have an overscan slider in the control panel.

I take the last part with more than a grain of salt, but anyway...
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:49 PM   #42
ActionableMango
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HDMI is a complete pile of crap. Handshaking issues abound throughout the home theater world, even on very high end gear. This results in momentarily black screens, resolution mismatches, and colorspace mismatches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
However he did add one bit of doubt... He said that part of the issue with some displays was a subtle handshaking issue where some displays (like my dell) were not always identifying themselves properly. This is what's behind some units showing up as a TV instead of a monitor in the Apple display control panel. The other dead giveaway that this is occurring is if you have an overscan slider in the control panel.
The problem described in this thread is probably an RGB mismatch, which could be caused by lack of HDMI handshake. There are other problems that can cause these symptoms, but there is much evidence in this thread pointing in that direction.

This happens in OSX and not Windows, even on the same machine. Something in OSX needs to change but it's been a problem for many years so don't hold your breath.

If the HDMI handshake is flaky, the EDID information will be incorrect, and thus the output from the Mini will not match the expected input from the TV.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extende...ification_data

There is a workaround, which is manually correcting the EDID information. It is "solution B" in this thread:
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/top...play-problems/

Basically, you get the actual EDID using an operating system that is reading it correctly, then go into OS X and override its faulty reading of the EDID with the actual EDID.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 12:51 PM   #43
drew.bowser
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Im not seeing it...

I am a photographer working with Dell U2410s. I don't have any issues. When I initially plug in the display it looks crap, whites out - color terrible.

After I adjust it with my i1pro I have no issues at all. I have 2x u2410s on both ports. one is miniDisplayPort - DisplayPort and the other is HDMI - DVI.

Mac Mini 2.3 i7

Unless you have a high-er end panel and calibrate it, it will never look perfect.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 02:45 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by drew.bowser View Post
Im not seeing it...

I am a photographer working with Dell U2410s. I don't have any issues. When I initially plug in the display it looks crap, whites out - color terrible.

After I adjust it with my i1pro I have no issues at all. I have 2x u2410s on both ports. one is miniDisplayPort - DisplayPort and the other is HDMI - DVI.

Mac Mini 2.3 i7

Unless you have a high-er end panel and calibrate it, it will never look perfect.
I calibrated mine and its fine as well. But it should have been better out of the box as most people can't be asked to calibrate
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 04:45 PM   #45
JamSandwich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drew.bowser View Post
Im not seeing it...

I am a photographer working with Dell U2410s. I don't have any issues. When I initially plug in the display it looks crap, whites out - color terrible.

After I adjust it with my i1pro I have no issues at all. I have 2x u2410s on both ports. one is miniDisplayPort - DisplayPort and the other is HDMI - DVI.

Mac Mini 2.3 i7

Unless you have a high-er end panel and calibrate it, it will never look perfect.
The issue seems to mainly manifest on HDMI-HDMI connections. Before I realized I didn't want anything less than an IPS display, I had a BenQ screen. Connected via HDMI, it looked pretty terrible.. I was able to make it semi-passable after a lot of fighting with Apple's calibration tool. The same display connected HDMI-DVI looked fine with no adjustments, and even better with a little bit of calibration (other than the issues inherent in the display).

The ASUS IPS screen I bought looked great out of the box (via HDMI-DVI) -- not completely up to par with my old iMac, but pretty close... very good overall. Now that they've apparently fixed the black screens, I'm toying with buying a second.
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Old Dec 12, 2012, 05:17 PM   #46
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Someone posted on the Apple Discussion forum that the Firmware update also corrected the washed out colors.

For those with the 10.8.3 update installed, do you now how see a correctly identified monitor showing up on the list when you check the color settings in the display control panel?
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 10:11 AM   #47
sno1man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdryyz View Post
Someone posted on the Apple Discussion forum that the Firmware update also corrected the washed out colors.

For those with the 10.8.3 update installed, do you now how see a correctly identified monitor showing up on the list when you check the color settings in the display control panel?
Yes and no.... I have a dell s2440l monitor. So the explanation...

Yes- If i plug the monitor in AFTER the mini is booted or the display is powered on after the mini is booted, it correctly identifies it as a display

No- If the monitor is already plugged in to the mini at boot up and powered on, the mini sees it as a television and thus has the slider for overscan.

Both cases are with monitor connected HDMI-HDMI. The dell only has HDMI and VGA inputs

PS: I'm about done with the mini... I bought one of the new iMacs for the family and it's gorgeous. May end up taking the mini back and getting another iMac for me
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 03:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sno1man View Post
Yes and no.... I have a dell s2440l monitor. So the explanation...

Yes- If i plug the monitor in AFTER the mini is booted or the display is powered on after the mini is booted, it correctly identifies it as a display

No- If the monitor is already plugged in to the mini at boot up and powered on, the mini sees it as a television and thus has the slider for overscan.

Both cases are with monitor connected HDMI-HDMI. The dell only has HDMI and VGA inputs

PS: I'm about done with the mini... I bought one of the new iMacs for the family and it's gorgeous. May end up taking the mini back and getting another iMac for me
Hopefully Apple doesn't consider the color issue over and done with after yesterday's firmware update. Right after installing the update my mini was able to correctly detect my display (a Samsung) for the first time. I was really excited and actually cancelled my arrangements for a refund and an order for an iMac I made as a replacement (I had been fiddling with the problem for days). The solution proved only temporary and the horrible colors were back after my mini returned from sleep mode. Connecting the monitor after booting like koyeung doesn't seem to work in my case.

I calibrated the display to look reasonably passable, but i really want it to work property. Next week is my last chance to return the mini. Not sure if I should risk being stuck with it not knowing if the next update will solve anything.
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Old Dec 13, 2012, 08:23 PM   #49
shanmugam
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monoprice DP to HDMI did not solve the issues for me, another $10 down the drain.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:22 AM   #50
sonicblue83
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I just tried ML 10.8.3 (beta) and it did fix the color problem (too bright colors). The Intel firmware update in December didn't fix it.
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