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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:10 PM   #176
Renzatic
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Originally Posted by Porco View Post
company A just saying 'ah well, we'll make even more investments to try and make up the lost business and hope company B doesn't use our ideas for free again!'.
You'd be right, if it weren't for the small fact that the world doesn't really work that way...

Apple is the perfect example of this. Supposedly everyone is copying their GRAND HARD EARNED INNOVATIONS (notice the use of caplocks for emphasis). If what you were saying is true, shouldn't they be suffering, barely holding on to solvency? I mean they can't reap the benefits of their hard work if everyone keeps stealing from them, right? What's the point of doing anything at all?

I guess you've got a point, so long as you ignore the fact Apple is currently the richest company in the tech industry with $100 billion in the bank, beloved by the media, and the (I daresay) apple of the public eye. It looks like they've reaped quite a few benefits from their hard work. So where's the suffering?

Plus, your argument only works if you assume the patents were, in fact, stolen. As in the patented ideas were truly unique, and lifted wholesale from Apple. The truth is, most of their patents are for little tweaks and additions to previously patented ideas that were somehow granted protection themselves. Apple rarely ever invents. They tweak and perfect other ideas, then take credit as their inventors. It's like getting a patent on the idea of the lightbulb because you managed to improve a previous design by making it rounder and slightly brighter, then tell everyone how awesome you are for coming up with such a novel concept.

In all honesty, Apple abuses other companies as much as they accuse others of abusing them, and abuse the patent system for their own benefit rather than their protection. You can slather you patent argument with as many Steve Jobs buzzwords as you want, it doesn't change the fact it's a fairly lame argument.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:11 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by slrandall View Post
Please don't put these on the front page anymore.
I was looking for the end of the thread to say just that. Lawsuits are so anoying! Apple Computers is not Apple and now will become Apple Law Firm.

Any way... enough is enough... lets put the lawsuits in a place less visible please.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:11 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by clibinarius View Post
Apple sues Samsung, Samsung has to go to court. Thus Samsung is acting like a baby.
How does this make any sense to you?
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:16 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Damn straight. Really stupid of them that their engineers and their lawyers are the same people

Oh wait. . .
I must have missed the part in my post where I said that. My bad. Lol. On a serious note, I get the reason for protecting intellectual property. I'm just wondering when all this will be finished. It's a shame that it's even an issue in the first place. Cheers.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:34 PM   #180
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:36 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by flameproof View Post
They did rule out smaller iPads too.......
Maybe Apple will bring back the stylus. If there is money to be made
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:37 PM   #182
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This is getting to a point that I don't think I will keep buying Apple products if it continues. They seem to be throwing as much crap at the wall as they can and seeing what sticks. A joke.

The word "innovate" gets thrown around a lot on these forums. Well, here it is again: I am going to give my money to companies that innovate, rather than litigate.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:38 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
You want Apple to spend less on lawsuits and more are innovating. So what, they can create more things for folks to copy without any punishment. Google would love that, they already think all things Apple should be de facto standards since they are popular

Meanwhile folks will continue too sue Apple over everything including exhausted SEP

----------



They stop and she's out of a job

THe galaxy S3 is far from a copy of the iPhone.. The iphone and the OS is getting stale. The barely changed anything. WOW they made the screen taller. Why? Not because they thought it was the perfect size, it's because the customers were going else where. When apple feels threatened they sue. PLAIN and SIMPLE.


James
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:39 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
snip
I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:41 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by cmwade77 View Post
Ok, I do get that, but then the question is why aren't they suing Microsoft for the Slate? My wife saw a comercial for it and until they said it was a Microsoft product she thought it was the oddest commercial Apple had ever produced because she thought it was for the new iPad. And she is not a dummy when it comes to these things, if it can fool her, it could fool anyone.
Good question. I think the intricacies of patent law are pretty complex, so I have no idea. Perhaps they are looking at it(?) Or maybe the OS is different enough(?)
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by rei101 View Post
I was looking for the end of the thread to say just that. Lawsuits are so anoying! Apple Computers is not Apple and now will become Apple Law Firm.

Any way... enough is enough... lets put the lawsuits in a place less visible please.
Honestly, I think it is very noble (although I am not sure that is their intention) of MacRumors to post each and every one of these up. People are getting sick of it. It's important to know who the company you support is and what they stand for rather than just throwing your money at them for shiny new toys.

(not singling YOU out here, using the universal you)
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
You'd be right, if it weren't for the small fact that the world doesn't really work that way...

Apple is the perfect example of this. Supposedly everyone is copying their GRAND HARD EARNED INNOVATIONS (notice the use of caplocks for emphasis). If what you were saying is true, shouldn't they be suffering, barely holding on to solvency? I mean they can't reap the benefits of their hard work if everyone keeps stealing from them, right? What's the point of doing anything at all?

I guess you've got a point, so long as you ignore the fact Apple is currently the richest company in the tech industry with $100 billion in the bank, beloved by the media, and the (I daresay) apple of the public eye. It looks like they've reaped quite a few benefits from their hard work. So where's the suffering?

Plus, your argument only works if you assume the patents were, in fact, stolen. As in the patented ideas were truly unique, and lifted wholesale from Apple. The truth is, most of their patents are for little tweaks and additions to previously patented ideas that were somehow granted protection themselves. Apple rarely ever invents. They tweak and perfect other ideas, then take credit as their inventors. It's like getting a patent on the idea of the lightbulb because you managed to improve a previous design by making it rounder and slightly brighter, then tell everyone how awesome you are for coming up with such a novel concept.

In all honesty, Apple abuses other companies as much as they accuse others of abusing them, and abuse the patent system for their own benefit rather than their protection. You can slather you patent argument with as many Steve Jobs buzzwords as you want, it doesn't change the fact it's a fairly lame argument.
"Steve Jobs buzzwords"?! puh-lease.

I only have two sentences that broadly cover everything you said :

1) Samsung aren't some small mom and pop store, and the laws have to apply to everyone, whether mega-rich or not.

2) That's what the courts are there to decide!

I still maintain that Apple cannot be blamed for the deficiencies in the patent system. And it's not like they are the only company to sue anyone. It's mis-placed anger that should be directed at the system, not the companies, even the richest one, that have to work within it. You complain about patents they "somehow" got granted, as if Apple is both the patent owner and patent office rolled into one...
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:42 PM   #188
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Obama won !
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:44 PM   #189
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Apple can keep these trend, while at samsung phone marketshare will continue to grow and will take marketshare of the tablet
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:51 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
There is no such provision in U.S. Patent law. You're thinking about Trademark law, which is not the issue here.
While not a provision of law, the defense (or lack therof) of patents has been raised in patent cases as well as trademark cases. If infringing products are prevalent in the marketplace for, say, a decade, and then a company files a claim of infringement, the position is demonstrably weaker than if the owner had defended vigorously all along. Courts vary on their view, but nonetheless, establishing a pattern of defending patents is good business.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:55 PM   #191
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When innovations are held back by Corporations, we all lose.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 10:55 PM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Apple is the perfect example of this. Supposedly everyone is copying their GRAND HARD EARNED INNOVATIONS (notice the use of caplocks for emphasis). If what you were saying is true, shouldn't they be suffering, barely holding on to solvency? I mean they can't reap the benefits of their hard work if everyone keeps stealing from them, right? What's the point of doing anything at all?
Actually, this is very wrong. That's like saying that if someone breaks into a rich person's house and steals their TV, it is OK, because that rich person isn't now broke.

Stealing is stealing. You don't get a pass because you stole from someone richer than you.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:00 PM   #193
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OMG! Get over it Apple!
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:03 PM   #194
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I use an Iphone, macbook, macbook air and apple tv so I'm an apple fan but making these statements with little thought how the two companies are closley integrated seems anal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJAZZYJET View Post
I really hope samsung loose , i extremely dislike all of their products.
I hope you don't use any Apple products then, cuz that means you hate their SSD's in the macbook family of computers, you hate the display screens in the iPads, the ARM chips that were manufactured by them and the list goes on and on.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jontech View Post
Those pesky Koreans and their tablet size phones


btw, where's the billion dollars you owe Apple?

Tim's thinking about buying Adobe with it....
You do realize Apple depends on those "pesky Koreans" to supply some of the IPAD, macbook Air displays as well as the SSD's as well as manufacture the ARM chips (even though they are designed by Apple)
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:03 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by curmi View Post
Actually, this is very wrong. That's like saying that if someone breaks into a rich person's house and steals their TV, it is OK, because that rich person isn't now broke.
No, it's more akin to saying you liked how that rich guy caddycornered his large screen TV in the den, so you decided to do the same. You even bought a similar rug, because you liked the way it tied the room together. Because...

Quote:
Stealing is stealing. You don't get a pass because you stole from someone richer than you.
PATENT INFRINGEMENT ISN'T THEFT!
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:04 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Eso View Post
I'd love to see what would happen if Samsung simply stopped supplying Apple with NAND flash memory and LCD screens.
Apple could technically source these parts from other vendors.
But the more noticeable aspect is Apple pay for these parts.

The bigger question is, I wonder what would happen if Apple simply stopped innovating ideas for Samsung to use without paying for?

Truth is, Samsung never inovated of made the type of changes Apple made prior to the IOS era ..... Even though they were in the Buisness.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:22 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by byke View Post
Apple could technically source these parts from other vendors.
But the more noticeable aspect is Apple pay for these parts.

The bigger question is, I wonder what would happen if Apple simply stopped innovating ideas for Samsung to use without paying for?

Truth is, Samsung never inovated of made the type of changes Apple made prior to the IOS era ..... Even though they were in the Buisness.
OMG...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ent_recipients

Do you see "Apple" in the list?

I see Samsung in #2 spot many years....
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:25 PM   #198
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This was cute in the beginning. The whole "we designed this and that and people need to come up with their own ideas". I got that. And yes, android and others have borrowed from Apple alot. But this should not be a focus for the company and it's a god damn PR nightmare. It completely changes Apple's brand image from a company that innovates and rose from being the underdog to the top dog with the products we measure success against, to a sue-happy bully that has officially taken a break from building. Playing it as safe as possible with little interest in shaking things up.

Stop the lawsuits. Really. Kick their ass by competing with them. Not suing. Let the market decide
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:29 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post

PATENT INFRINGEMENT ISN'T THEFT!
Well, it's using ideas that are recognised in law as being protected for the exclusive use of the patent owner. It's a lot more like physical theft than say, piracy of media files via P2P file-sharing.

It's the difference between recognising similie and metaphor, and not. Like stealing, like theft, is stealing, is theft... both are just a way to describe someone taking something someone else has and not pay them for it. Not really worth getting in a bold size 6 capital letters-mood over IMHO.

When romantic statements talk about a person who 'stole my heart', they don't usually mean one literally punches through the chest and removes a vital organ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulweaponry View Post
Stop the lawsuits. Really. Kick their ass by competing with them. Not suing. Let the market decide
Do we want a homogenous market where they just all copy each other though? It's near enough that already, hence the lawsuits. I'm not sure giving up on protecting the differences in features and designs is going to offer a more vibrant 'market'.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 11:39 PM   #200
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Well, it's using ideas that are recognised in law as being protected for the exclusive use of the patent owner. It's a lot more like physical theft than say, piracy of media files via P2P file-sharing.

It's the difference between recognising similie and metaphor, and not. Like stealing, like theft, is stealing, is theft... both are just a way to describe someone taking something someone else has and not pay them for it. Not really worth getting in a bold size 6 capital letters-mood over IMHO.
No, because you're not depriving the patent holder of anything. You're copying his idea.

It's a similar argument pirates make to justify downloading movies and music, but it's different in the sense that you can't immediately take an idea and implement it into your own products. Once that first mover product is on the market with a brand new, innovative idea, it enjoys a period of exclusivity.

Plus, someone else using your idea isn't guaranteed to lose you money. Apple is the perfect example once again, because the company has grown and become more profitable over the last 10 years, despite everyone allegedly "stealing" their ideas.

It's nothing at all like theft. It's patent infringement. And patent infringement is patent infringement. Nothing more or less. Do you think Apple stole from Creative when they released the iPod? No. They infringed on Creative's patent, paid a rather hefty fine because of it, and released a product that ended up taking the market by storm.

So is Apple guilty of ruining Creative's chances in the MP3 market, even though they patented and released their product first? "Stealing" the market from them, so to speak? No. Apple made an arguably better product. They stole nothing, and owed nothing beyond that initial (forced) investment. Thus is the nature of the beast.

Quote:
When romantic statements talk about a person who 'stole my heart', they don't usually mean one literally punches through the chest and removes a vital organ...
No, it's hyperbole. Something the "theft" people are very much guilty of.
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