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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:32 AM   #301
Zombie Acorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphingDragon View Post
I dont think youve payed enough attention.

----------



ALmost enough to make someone Gnotist.

However basing your life off political discourse is not wise.
More unfunded government spending, more corporate welfare under the veil of obamacare, more trampling of rights through the extension of the patriot act, more killing US citizens without a trial, more ******** tax cuts, more high unemployment, and more leeches sucking at the government teet corporations and people alike.

Obama was supposed to change the way political games were played, he hasn't changed ****.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:35 AM   #302
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I'm glad America said Yes to moving forward, yes to equality, tolerance and working together for a better America, an America that is everyone's America
This election turned out to be not that close after all , strong clear message that we are willing to move forward, we will not let the bigot, radical voices be heard , they need to be shut off for good reasons
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:36 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by whoknows87 View Post
I'm glad America said Yes to moving forward, yes to equality, tolerance and working together for a better America, an America that is everyone's America
This election turned out to be not that close after all , strong clear message that we are willing to move forward, we will not let the bigot, radical voices be heard , they need to be shut off for good reasons
Good luck getting that past the house.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:36 AM   #304
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Originally Posted by dscuber9000 View Post
Did he really say that? Obama won re-election, and did it easily. Won every single swing state in fact! To think THAT party is the one that needs changing is denial, plain and simple.
As they say, denial ain't just a river running through Egypt.


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Originally Posted by mcdj View Post
Obama is one hell of a speaker. That victory speech will be remembered for a very long time.
Yes. That was a helluva good speech. But as his detractors would point out, he did use a teleprompter.

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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:39 AM   #305
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The tea party got smacked tonight.

That says a lot.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:39 AM   #306
whoknows87
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
More unfunded government spending, more corporate welfare under the veil of obamacare, more trampling of rights through the extension of the patriot act, more killing US citizens without a trial, more ******** tax cuts, more high unemployment, and more leeches sucking at the government teet corporations and people alike.

Obama was supposed to change the way political games were played, he hasn't changed ****.
Like you really give a **** about Anwar Al wakili or whatever his name is lol
Take credit for the Patriot Act who came up with that great Act? who LIED to congress and made a fool of his Top General in front of the UN, going to war on Bad intelligence, in 2008 how many jobs were lost, what led to the crash

anyways consider yourself Lucky Obama will be around for 4 more years, things will turn around , The socialist , communist, atheist, muslim, kenyan, community organizer will still be here 4 more years
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:39 AM   #307
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I'm personally not in favor of tonights results. It's not that I'm anti-Democratic or pro-Republican either -- in reality I dislike both parties equally, and dislike both major candidates even more. In fact, I dislike the two-party system in general. It's become much too platform centric, and has devolved into two faceless political machines with no public accountability quibbling over trivial matters to the point of catastrophe. It's kind of like two spoiled kids fighting in a sandbox.

For those of you wondering, I'm an economic conservative that's socially liberal, which lands me smack dab in the middle of nowhere. Neither candidate had any prospect of performing well, despite all the pedantic backlash I'll likely receive for such a notion. Congress sure as hell isn't going to do their job either. I voted for Johnson. Of any candidate, he best fit my views.

Some food for thought:

Republicans:
-The bible beating conservatives are borderline insane with their views on life, marriage, rape, and spirituality
-Generally not pro-science or education
-Overly zealous for foreign conflict

Democrats:
-Far too many freebies given the economic climate; too much interest in socialized systems
-No concept of fiscal responsibility -- Obama already accrued as much debt as Bush in four years, not eight
-Weak foreign policy -- peace at all costs

Both:
-Neither party is willing to compromise
-Both believe in Keynesian economics
-Both don't gave a rats ass about your civil rights (Patriot Act, NDAA, etc)
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:41 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Peace View Post
The tea party got smacked tonight.

That says a lot.
I want that 60 Majority SOOON
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:42 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by darkplanets View Post
Democrats:
-Weak foreign policy -- peace at all costs
Osama Bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi might disagree with this assessment.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:49 AM   #310
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Osama Bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi might disagree with this assessment.
We had little to no hand in Gaddafi. The only reason we became involved in Libya at all is because other nations were interested in it, especially the UK. They had SAS on the ground. Realistically we probably had a few raids, but we didn't do much besides provide (poor) air support. I assume we want another oil deal out of new relations.

In terms of Bin Laden; I think it's well understood that Obama was not at all comfortable with the notion. It took the military (and probably CIA) months of paperwork to convince him, with Hillary finally stepping in to coerce Obama to approve the operation. If anyone should be commended, it's Hillary and the military, the latter of which I view as non political organization (bar the top five brass). Obama just took the credit for saying yes.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:50 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by whoknows87 View Post
Like you really give a **** about Anwar Al wakili or whatever his name is lol
Take credit for the Patriot Act who came up with that great Act? who LIED to congress and made a fool of his Top General in front of the UN, going to war on Bad intelligence, in 2008 how many jobs were lost, what led to the crash

anyways consider yourself Lucky Obama will be around for 4 more years, things will turn around , The socialist , communist, atheist, muslim, kenyan, community organizer will still be here 4 more years
Did you vote for Bush? I didn't, and if these policies were such **** then why did Obama extend them?

I'll consider myself lucky for living in a country where politics and politicians are sensible. Best decision of my life.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:58 AM   #312
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In terms of Bin Laden; I think it's well understood that Obama was not at all comfortable with the notion. It took the military (and probably CIA) months of paperwork to convince him, with Hillary finally stepping in to coerce Obama to approve the operation.
Is it "well understood"? Can you cite a respectable source that can help us "understand" it?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 01:59 AM   #313
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Osama turning on hes grave
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:04 AM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkplanets View Post
In terms of Bin Laden; I think it's well understood that Obama was not at all comfortable with the notion. It took the military (and probably CIA) months of paperwork to convince him, with Hillary finally stepping in to coerce Obama to approve the operation. If anyone should be commended, it's Hillary and the military, the latter of which I view as non political organization (bar the top five brass). Obama just took the credit for saying yes.
This is not true. Read the Vanity Fair feature "The Hunt for Geronimo".

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/2...ssination-plot

Quote:
On May 26, 2009, Obama had concluded a routine national-security briefing in the Situation Room by pointing to Donilon, Leon Panetta, his newly appointed C.I.A. director, Mike Leiter, director of the National Counterterrorism Center, and Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff.

“You, you, you, and you,” he said. “Come upstairs.”

The four followed Obama through the warren of narrow West Wing hallways to the Oval Office. They didn’t sit down.

Obama said, “Here’s the deal. I want this hunt for Osama bin Laden and [Ayman] al-Zawahiri to come to the front of the line. I worry that the trail has gone cold. This has to be our top priority and it needs leadership in the tops of your organizations.” He added, “I want regular reports on this to me, and I want them starting in 30 days.”

The conventional wisdom is that the intelligence apparatus had slackened off in its search for bin Laden—and it’s true that President George W. Bush, frustrated by the inability to find him, publicly declared that bin Laden wasn’t important. But among the analysts and operatives, the hunt had always continued. Obama’s order just gave it more focus and intensity.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:12 AM   #315
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Get over it folks. The party of common sense won tonight. It's over. Get used to it and move forward with the rest of us.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:26 AM   #316
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Get over it folks. The party of common sense won tonight. It's over. Get used to it and move forward with the rest of us.
Well said... Get on the train or step away from the platform
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:28 AM   #317
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Osama Bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi might disagree with this assessment.
As would most foreigners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkplanets View Post
-Both believe in Keynesian economics
Which, you know, works. See China, etc.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:36 AM   #318
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This election turned out to be not that close after all , strong clear message that we are willing to move forward, we will not let the bigot, radical voices be heard , they need to be shut off for good reasons
Censorship of any kind is wrong.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 02:48 AM   #319
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Thank you America for this vote, the world would have been a very scary place with Mittens in the White House.

I only hope that the Republicans can reform themselves to be less bigoted, racist, sexist and homophobic.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 03:01 AM   #320
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Is it "well understood"? Can you cite a respectable source that can help us "understand" it?
Ah, I did some digging on the "source," Miniter. Seems to not be a reputable guy. Apologies for not sourcing better, I didn't check his credentials when I first read about that. There was a clear conflict of interest. I don't think the counter argument can be sourced well either. Truthfully, everything should probably be taken with a grain of salt. Everyone is looking to capitalize on the venture and we will likely see more conflicting results within the next year. The operational details obviously won't come out for years, likely with healthy redactions.

I do however think it's naive to assume that the president was magically the driving force behind the operation. Our intelligence agencies were incompetent, but I really find it hard to believe that we didn't know he was in Pakistan all that time. Bush Jr probably didn't want to the pull the trigger, but that's just baseless speculation at this point. I anticipate that Obama likely sat on the operation and knowledge for some time. Guess we'll find out in 50 years.

The bigger test I think will be how he now handles Iran. I agree with his current diplomatic course, but that can only be pursued for so long. I do honestly believe that the fundamentalists in Iran are crazy enough to use a nuclear weapon.

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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
This is not true. Read the Vanity Fair feature "The Hunt for Geronimo".
I do not consider Vanity Fair a reputable source, nor the book that dramatizes the events. See what I wrote above.

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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Which, you know, works. See China, etc.
I think Hazlitt would disagree. Although, you're correct in point. The only difference is how China spent it really, which arguably would effect the response time of an action such as a stimulus or investment if considered within Keynesian parameters. The thing is, even within the context of government spending to kick start the economy, I don't believe it works as advertised given the US spending. Those with money who were being cautious remained cautious and did not start to spend post US stimulus just because everyone got a check for $100 to spend on foreign brands, and hence our economy is still stagnant. Keynesian economics relies on people essentially being stupid. China's approach, though fundamentally Keynesian, was to invest long term in businesses and to cut taxes on those businesses, which under the currently considered model, brought out more investments ergo more money was available.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 03:02 AM   #321
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In the end, it was a landslide with 303 to 206 so far. The GOP picked up Indiana and North Carolina from 2008 and made a stab at Florida. But with 97% percent of precincts in for that state, Obama looks to have won that by just one percent and will retain it for the democrats.

Last edited by 63dot; Nov 7, 2012 at 03:17 AM.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 03:27 AM   #322
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How is it possible for the Democrats to win the popular vote, control the Senate and somehow not control the House?
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 03:56 AM   #323
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I've been posting on Facebook a lot and my friends agree with the sentiment here: Republicans need to change. You can't win with the white male vote. You need to be accepting of people. You can't call people out on being "RINOs." You can't be against gay marriage. You can't be speaking about illegal immigrants as anything less than human beings. You can't write off 47% of the country just because they disagree with you.

Unfortunately for them I have no idea who can lead them forward with that movement. They have no one. None of the failed candidates work. Tonight's results from everything from President to Senate to Congress to referendums are all going progressive. The first openly gay senator was elected, and from Wisconsin! Republicans need to redefine the party and fast. Teabaggers cost them votes. Extremism is NOT the answer!
Yeah, rather than dig themselves deeper into the hole, they need to try something new. The middle is where it's at. The British left-wing led by Blair reclaimed the country by becoming business-friendly liberals. The Swedish right-wing conservatives led by Reinfeldt crushed the left wing by becoming business-friendly liberals. They even created a new dress code for representatives... no more geezer suits, pearl earrings and other crusty old upper class crap, dress modern, think casual Friday all week long. They won new voters without losing the old base, I mean where were the dinosaurs gonna turn? Vote for the far left just out of spite? Nah, they're already in the bag.

As long as the GOP hopes to win elections by kissing up to white male dinosaurs living in the 19th century, they'll remain stuck in that hole. Dammit, Reagan or Nixon would've been more contemporary alternatives for 2012, how sad is that? The GOP needs to take all the Bachmann and Palin and Tea Party and Fox News types and send them whooshing into space. Emphasize the fiscally conservative stuff and ditch the social conservatism and bible-thumping.

But of course, that's not gonna happen... they'd never dream of trying something new or different. They'll just double down and crank the insanity up to 11.
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 04:24 AM   #324
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Old Nov 7, 2012, 04:38 AM   #325
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As an American living in the Scotland, all I can say is that I am breathing a sigh of relief that Obama was elected. I don't think I could have survived the constant abuse in the UK if Romney had been elected. Bush was bad enough....
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