Apple's pricing in Europe

[majkom]

I am completely dissapointed by the way apple is setting prices in Europe this year... it all began with mb air 2012 introduction - in US prices fell down (base model 2012 cheaper than base model 2011), here in europe, prices rose... same happens now with iphone, in us prices are stable, here prices are rising.. probably same will happen with desktop line.. asking myself, does really apple think we are totally dumb here in Europe? Why are we being treated as second rate customers?

[NunoBerny]

Originally Posted by majkom

I am completely dissapointed by the way apple is setting prices in Europe this year... it all began with mb air 2012 introduction - in US prices fell down (base model 2012 cheaper than base model 2011), here in europe, prices rose... same happens now with iphone, in us prices are stable, here prices are rising.. probably same will happen with desktop line.. asking myself, does really apple think we are totally dumb here in Europe? Why are we being treated as second rate customers?

Given Apple´s success here, it seems we are indeed dumb.

[majkom]

Originally Posted by NunoBerny

Given Apple´s success here, it seems we are indeed dumb.

wouldnt say, android is ruling europe... apple computers are minor in europe... apple does not care about europe

[flopticalcube]

The Euro has fallen against the dollar since the 2011 model was introduced. In dollar terms, they are priced more or less the same (net of taxes). When it comes to Macs, Apple doesn't really care about anyone. Its become a very small part of their business.

[gnasher729]

Originally Posted by majkom

wouldnt say, android is ruling europe... apple computers are minor in europe... apple does not care about europe

20 percent or higher VAT, higher cost due to generous consumer rights in Europe, changes in exchange rates, all things that you keep forgetting.

And Apple computer sales are of course very strong in the UK, France, and Germany, so everywhere that counts. Especially remarkable in the UK, where one local PC maker after the other has bit the dust in the last two or three years.

[majkom]

Originally Posted by flopticalcube

The Euro has fallen against the dollar since the 2011 model was introduced. In dollar terms, they are priced more or less the same (net of taxes). When it comes to Macs, Apple doesn't really care about anyone. Its become a very small part of their business.

excuse me? the pattern described in my post appeared just know, for two years we had some prices and then, out of the blue, they rised prices in europe, for your information, the chang in eur/usd is 1.6% in favour for eur, so please, no more eur/usd logic as there is none

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Originally Posted by gnasher729

20 percent or higher VAT, higher cost due to generous consumer rights in Europe, changes in exchange rates, all things that you keep forgetting.

And Apple computer sales are of course very strong in the UK, France, and Germany, so everywhere that counts. Especially remarkable in the UK, where one local PC maker after the other has bit the dust in the last two or three years.

I am not complaining about higher european price value in general, I am complaining about patterns, why new mb airs and 5th iphones hold the same price as their predecessors in US (conmparing US prices), but are being more expensive in europe (comparing EUR prices) - this is why I am pissed

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Originally Posted by gnasher729

And Apple computer sales are of course very strong in the UK, France, and Germany, so everywhere that counts. Especially remarkable in the UK, where one local PC maker after the other has bit the dust in the last two or three years.

Are you serious? Check this: http://www.electronista.com/articles....market.cited/

In Uk, Apple took small 6.2% share of all sales, in western Europe even smaller, same for France... no, apple is minor PC vendor here in Europe

[flopticalcube]

Originally Posted by majkom

excuse me? the pattern described in my post appeared just know, for two years we had some prices and then, out of the blue, they rised prices in europe, for your information, the chang in eur/usd is 1.6% in favour for eur, so please, no more eur/usd logic as there is none

MacBook Air Mid-2011 model introduced July 20, 2011 EUR approx. 1.43 to the $

MacBook Air Mid-2012 model introduced June 20, 2012 EUR approx. 1.25 to the $

Apple sets prices at launch and generally ignores exchange volatility afterwards. Your rants are hollow.

[majkom]

Originally Posted by flopticalcube

MacBook Air Mid-2011 model introduced July 20, 2011 EUR approx. 1.43 to the $

MacBook Air Mid-2012 model introduced June 20, 2012 EUR approx. 1.25 to the $

Apple sets prices at launch and generally ignores exchange volatility afterwards. Your rants are hollow.

So you have nicely skipped 2010 MB air version, EUR approx 1.39 to the USD at launch date, just month before 1.27 (dont tell me that apple sets price during presentation) - but no volatility with macbooks price, so please again, there is no logic on EUR/USD argumentation...

[flopticalcube]

Originally Posted by majkom

So you have nicely skipped 2010 MB air version, EUR approx 1.39 to the USD at launch date, just month before 1.27 (dont tell me that apple sets price during presentation) - but no volatility with macbooks price, so please again, there is no logic on EUR/USD argumentation...

They would probably set the prices a few weeks before actual sales start. I didn't mention the 2010 model because you didn't use that in your OP. You said the whole thing started with the introduction of the 2012 model. Exchange rates can account for most of the discrepancy.

[majkom]

Originally Posted by flopticalcube

They would probably set the prices a few weeks before actual sales start. I didn't mention the 2010 model because you didn't use that in your OP. You said the whole thing started with the introduction of the 2012 model. Exchange rates can account for most of the discrepancy.

Yes, it started with 2012 models... 2010, 2011 prices were stable... and by the way, even 2011 and 2012 still does not make any sense, cause, if anyone wants to explain this by the fact that apple sets prices and its done, imagine that eur/usd rapidly changes during one year (lets say from 1:1 to 2:1, or vice versa) - not changing price anyway? wtf?

[flopticalcube]

Originally Posted by majkom

Yes, it started with 2012 models... 2010, 2011 prices were stable... and by the way, even 2011 and 2012 still does not make any sense, cause, if anyone wants to explain this by the fact that apple sets prices and its done, imagine that eur/usd rapidly changes during one year (lets say from 1:1 to 2:1, or vice versa) - not changing price anyway? wtf?

That is the Apple way. Its painful for all of us who live outside the US and want to purchase a product locally (although it can be good too, but rarely). That is one of the reasons that I have said that the current crop of Apple desktops is poor value compared to PCs. Prices in the PC world for equivalent tech have been declining for over a year now. Even the new tech (Ivy Bridge and new GPUs) have been falling in price for a few months now. As long as there is demand for their products, Apple will continue pricing policies like this. It would certainly help if Apple introduced new models more often thus allowing the changes in exchange rate to be factored in.

[NunoBerny]

Originally Posted by majkom

wouldnt say, android is ruling europe... apple computers are minor in europe... apple does not care about europe

Well,I don't have the numbers and I never really thought much about it, but it seems everyone is talking about Apple. At least, in terms of iPhone.
And if the prices were a bit lower, it would probably double up.
This is what I feel as an average user, may be entirely wrong.

[fatboyondiet]

I was surprised today when i realised that 13 MBP prices rose by 100€ in Germany compared to this time last year. It looks to me like the prices have gone up on all hardware. From Iphones to IMacs.

To me the argument that Apple doesn't care about Europe is pretty childish. They do care about the business that Europe represents. Here in Munich every other student owns a MBP. Every other person in the metro an Iphone. It also explains why Apple keeps opening new stores in Europe.

I looks like the Euro has lost value relative to both US and Chinese currencies. I guess that explains the trend. Both development (US) and manufacturing (China) have become more expensive in relation to our currency.

Sucks for us europeans in a way.

[gnasher729]

Originally Posted by majkom

Are you serious? Check this: http://www.electronista.com/articles....market.cited/

In Uk, Apple took small 6.2% share of all sales, in western Europe even smaller, same for France... no, apple is minor PC vendor here in Europe

6.2% share in unit sales. That means, counting the number of computers sold. However, Apple is selling almost exclusively in the high-end market. Where others sell a laptop for £349 (which is always "reduced for £599 for an enormous saving" if you believe it), Apple sells most of its laptops for over £1000. So 6.2% in unit sales, probably 18% to 22% in revenue. That's not a "minor PC vendor". And if you look at profits...

[macman312]

Remember that in the US if you look at the price of a computer on the apple website it does not include tax (usually 10%) so it isn't actually that much cheaper in the US compared to other countries..... I used to think that apple computers were over priced where I live in Australia but now I think about it they aren't after tax.

[geta]

Originally Posted by macman312

Remember that in the US if you look at the price of a computer on the apple website it does not include tax (usually 10%) so it isn't actually that much cheaper in the US compared to other countries..... I used to think that apple computers were over priced where I live in Australia but now I think about it they aren't after tax.

dont know where this coming from, but even after the tax, i paid €200 less for MBP, so i could upgrade my Mac, and still it cost less then here (for the same MBP minus the upgrades)...

lets say the tax are 10% in USA (based on what you said) :
MacMini 2.3 i7 = $799 +10% = $878.9 = €686.1
in Europe (Germany) MacMini cost €829
way should i pay €143 extra for the same machine...
and its nothing compare the difference for the 12 core MacPro (€637)...

[SWPROX]

Originally Posted by geta

dont know where this coming from, but even after the tax, i paid €200 less for MBP, so i could upgrade my Mac, and still it cost less then here (for the same MBP minus the upgrades)...

lets say the tax are 10% in USA (based on what you said) :
MacMini 2.3 i7 = $799 +10% = $878.9 = €686.1
in Europe (Germany) MacMini cost €829
way should i pay €143 extra for the same machine...
and its nothing compare the difference for the 12 core MacPro (€637)...

Don't pay-no one is forcing you to !

[macman312]

Originally Posted by geta

dont know where this coming from, but even after the tax, i paid €200 less for MBP, so i could upgrade my Mac, and still it cost less then here (for the same MBP minus the upgrades)...

lets say the tax are 10% in USA (based on what you said) :
MacMini 2.3 i7 = $799 +10% = $878.9 = €686.1
in Europe (Germany) MacMini cost €829
way should i pay €143 extra for the same machine...
and its nothing compare the difference for the 12 core MacPro (€637)...

Yes I agree with you but for the mac mini it is barley worth it to bother with the plug and everything. For the macpro yes, but not for the mac mini. Besides that price is only recommended retail price. It usually is available at resellers for 50-80EUR less than that

[MacPat333]

I agree, Europe is being ripped off big time (especially in Germany).

I placed an order for the 2012 MBA 13" with i5, 128GB SSD and 8GB RAM. Luckily I am living in Dubai and pay here for this machine 245.00 Euro less compared to Germany!

Dubai = 1104.00

Germany = Euro 1349.00

In addition I could get a deal and I pay even Euro 21.00 less than the above mentioned, so I end up with Euro 1083.00! That's Euro 266.00 less, I can buy an iPad for the difference!


Next year I am planning to get the 27" iMac, i7, 1TB Fusion Drive, 2GB grpahics card and aftermarket 32GB RAM. I can only assume that the difference will be Euro +500.00 or more between Dubai and Germany!

[ikl]

The price of the cheapest entry level MBP 13 in the Finnish Apple Store is approximately the same as the price of the cheapest MBP 13 with retina screen in US store.

The price of the cheapest MBP 13 with retina screen in the Finnish Apple Store is approximately the same as the price of the cheapest MBP 15 with retina screen in US store.

[Erko]

At first I was astonished by the price hike as well, but then I did the math.
Lets take the entry level 13" Air.
In US its 1199$. Convert it to euro and its 934€.
Now in Estonia its 1279€(tax included). When I deduce the tax(20%) it's 1024€. When we take into account that the EU probably has some sort of taxing as well we can see that it isn't that different, besides we get it with a superior keyboard

[fatboyondiet]

Originally Posted by Erko

At first I was astonished by the price hike as well, but then I did the math.
Lets take the entry level 13" Air.
In US its 1199$. Convert it to euro and its 934€.
Now in Estonia its 1279€(tax included). When I deduce the tax(20%) it's 1024€. When we take into account that the EU probably has some sort of taxing as well we can see that it isn't that different, besides we get it with a superior keyboard

Just for the sake of argument:

If you want to calculate the pretax price you need to divide your brutto price (1279€) by 1.2 (assuming 20% tax). That gives you a pre tax price of 1065.8€. Taxes are calculated on netto prices (that is prices without tax). So the 1065.8€ gets 20% of 1065.8 added to it which results in the final store price of 1279€.

Considering this the US-EURO difference is about 131€ which is still considerable.

[AppleMacFinder]

Originally Posted by majkom

I am completely dissapointed by the way apple is setting prices in Europe this year... it all began with mb air 2012 introduction - in US prices fell down (base model 2012 cheaper than base model 2011), here in europe, prices rose... same happens now with iphone, in us prices are stable, here prices are rising.. probably same will happen with desktop line.. asking myself, does really apple think we are totally dumb here in Europe? Why are we being treated as second rate customers?

Originally Posted by geta

lets say the tax are 10% in USA (based on what you said) :
MacMini 2.3 i7 = $799 +10% = $878.9 = €686.1
in Europe (Germany) MacMini cost €829
why should i pay €143 extra for the same machine...
and its nothing compare the difference for the 12 core MacPro (€637)...

Originally Posted by MacPat333

I agree, Europe is being ripped off big time (especially in Germany).

Originally Posted by Erko

Lets take the entry level 13" Air.
In US its 1199$. Convert it to euro and its 934€.
Now in Estonia its 1279€(tax included). When I deduce the tax(20%) it's 1024€.

Originally Posted by ikl

The price of the cheapest entry level MBP 13 in the Finnish Apple Store is approximately the same as the price of the cheapest MBP 13 with retina screen in US store.

You don't have to buy at the official Apple store!

For example:

In Russian offical stores, Apple products cost up to 2x times more expensive than in USA!

But, in grey stores (unofficial stores: completely legal, but importing from USA without Apple's permission)
- just about 5%-15% more expensive (Apple tax deducted )
And this price difference is relatively small and acceptable - because these kind companies spend money
to deliver the products from USA, also on staff & storage & rent, and also need to make some profit.

The cheapest price* could be found with a local market prices online tool: market.yandex.ru
Type the model number, search, and you would be really glad to see the results!

Source: my personal experience.

* By "cheapest price", I mean "cheapest price from a store which has many (at least, 100) positive reviews
(4-5 stars from 5; of course, this rating does not include the reviews affected by delivery, because they are affected by a quality of delivery company service)

I believe, in every European country the situation is similar.
Just do some research, and you will save a lot!

[Erko]

Originally Posted by fatboyondiet

Just for the sake of argument:

If you want to calculate the pretax price you need to divide your brutto price (1279€) by 1.2 (assuming 20% tax). That gives you a pre tax price of 1065.8€. Taxes are calculated on netto prices (that is prices without tax). So the 1065.8€ gets 20% of 1065.8 added to it which results in the final store price of 1279€.

Considering this the US-EURO difference is about 131€ which is still considerable.

Right, my bad. Sometimes these things slip my mind in the heat of discussion
Still, does anyone know how if and how much do EU customs add to the price?
Another thing to take into consideration is that to me it seems EU customers seem to be more acceptive to rising prices whereas in the US such things cause much more trouble than its worth(and hey, the iMac price rose, we can only hope that the EU price will be on par, beacause otherwise it would rise 200€, which is tad too much).

[LaunchpadBS]

Amazon UK do it, just not with iPhones, but most macs can be bought from Amazon for about a 5% discount.