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Old Nov 2, 2012, 04:49 PM   #351
milo
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Originally Posted by RinCa View Post
Only until someone directly asked about the speakers on the mini did Schiller admit it.
Look at the story, it's not just what Schiller said. The teardown revealed two separate speakers sending audio through two grilles, and I assume they actually listened to the speakers and could tell it was actually putting out stereo (with terrible imaging, and they may have had to hold it right up to their face to even tell).

Just listen to any of the earlier ipads, they are clearly mono.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:27 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
Look at the story, it's not just what Schiller said. The teardown revealed two separate speakers sending audio through two grilles, and I assume they actually listened to the speakers and could tell it was actually putting out stereo (with terrible imaging, and they may have had to hold it right up to their face to even tell).

Just listen to any of the earlier ipads, they are clearly mono.

Ridiculous.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 08:45 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
Just because someone else is holds the same opinion you do, doesn't mean you're right. You can both be wrong.

EDTV is *not* 720p, EDTV is:
480p (NTSC) or 576p (PAL)


Maybe you should let the facts penetrate *your* bubble?
I'm not holding an opinion, I'm stating fact: Fact created by the only person that matters in this discussion... Me. Deal with it.
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 09:37 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by RinCa View Post
If they are sending different frequencies to the 2 speakers then yes it is mono.
If they are sending different channels(Left & Right) to the 2 speakers then it's stereo.

Apple has never divulged the ipads have stereo speakers. Only until someone directly asked about the speakers on the mini did Schiller admit it. Apple still doesn't admit it on the spec page. Why?

I say, ask Schiller and find out. I did and am waiting his reply.


Also, anybody that has an opened unit can tap into the speaker wires and confirm if it's stereo or not. It would be great if someone would do that.
Wouldn't you think that people who actually tore down the previous 3 generations would let something like stereo speakers slip?
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Old Nov 2, 2012, 11:50 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by SlyFoxHound View Post
Wouldn't you think that people who actually tore down the previous 3 generations would let something like stereo speakers slip?
Yes. Since Apple listed "speaker" on their spec page for ALL ipads, people just assumed it was mono. But now we find out they misled us on the mini, who's to say they didn't mislead us on the others.

Only Phil or a credible source can confirm if the others are stereo or not.



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Old Nov 3, 2012, 08:19 PM   #356
tbrinkma
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Originally Posted by milo View Post
Yes. If it were one "speaker" as apple says on their website (and shows in the picture, with a single arrow pointing to one side), it couldn't possibly be anything but mono. The incorrect part is saying speaker when there are actually two.

There was no reason for Amazon not to be sure, are other companies supposed to assume the info Apple posts is wrong and wait for a correction?

I know there are a lot of Apple apologists out there, but it's a bit bizarre to blame others when Apple has incorrect or at the very least misleading info on their website.
I most certainly didn't blame Amazon (or anyone else) for Apple having 'incorrect or at the very least misleading info on their website'. I blamed Amazon for making an incorrect claim about a competitor's product. Apple isn't responsible for Amazon's actions any more than Amazon is responsible for Apple's.

The fact is, if you're going to do a spec-by-spec comparison of your product with a competitor's product, it's kind of important that you get the specs correct. On the other hand, if you want to 'short change' your own product in your own description, that's your right.

Note: Amazon has done just that in the process of creating this advertisement for the Kindle. They call out as a 'pro' the fact that the Kindle *can't* read books from the iBookstore (or a variety of other e-book stores), while calling it a 'con' that the iPad mini *can*, due to the Kindle app and other e-readers. (I can't wait for the day when the book & movie industries finally get their heads out of their respective asses with regard to DRM, but that's neither here nor there at this juncture.)

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion View Post
I'm not holding an opinion, I'm stating fact: Fact created by the only person that matters in this discussion... Me. Deal with it.
So you're wrong, and you know you're wrong, but you're going to stick with your story? Or was that sarcasm? (It's so hard to tell online...)

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFoxHound View Post
Wouldn't you think that people who actually tore down the previous 3 generations would let something like stereo speakers slip?
Actually, the iFixIt teartdowns *do* show multiple speakers on the iPad 3. They're both directed to the same 'speaker grill' on the case though, so even if they were set up as stereo, it wouldn't make a difference. I suspect that they *technically* are 'stereo' in that one plays the left channel and the other plays the right (since that's the easiest way to ensure that sounds from one channel don't distort those from the other), but unless you were to somehow build something to channel that sound apart you wouldn't really be able to tell.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:23 AM   #357
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The term "speaker" should be "speakers".. There are two grills, not one. (dam those Apple Tech Spec's)

If the ipad 4th gen. also had Stereo, that might have made me upgrade from my ipad 3.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 07:53 AM   #358
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Originally Posted by Tech198 View Post
The term "speaker" should be "speakers".. There are two grills, not one. (dam those Apple Tech Spec's)

If the ipad 4th gen. also had Stereo, that might have made me upgrade from my ipad 3.
Even portrait mode stereo?

What use is two speakers right next to each other, on the 'short side' of the device - where you can't make use of the stereo effect for video playback?

Complete waste of time...
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 08:00 AM   #359
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I can't believe this is still a story. Don't these speakers suck anyway?
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 08:51 AM   #360
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Even portrait mode stereo?

What use is two speakers right next to each other, on the 'short side' of the device - where you can't make use of the stereo effect for video playback?

Complete waste of time...
Ya i know.

What im saying is that the iPad 4th gen. shoud of had stereo, i reckon, the same as the mini does. One on the left and right of the lightning connector.

This would of be a better ugrade than just CPU, and the replacement doc connection, would be more of "WOW" factor.

Although the new connector may get more attention since people will have to either get an adapter or get new cables anyway.

Hopefully, Stereo may make into into the 5th gen. IPad..... It will eventually, it has to..
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Last edited by Tech198; Nov 4, 2012 at 08:58 AM.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 08:57 AM   #361
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What im saying is that the iPad 4th gen. shoud had stereo, the same as the mini does. One on the left and right of the lightning connector.
Useless stereo is useless. The CPU upgrade is a lot better.

If they're going to add stereo (and they should) then we need a speaker on each side of the device, so you get a stereo effect on video playback.

This 'each side of the connector' stereo isn't going to give you any stereo effect in real life. It lets you tick-box 'stereo too!' in a comparison with the Kindle (if that means anything to you), but it's still a waste of time.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 09:17 AM   #362
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What I still haven't seen is a true stereo test. Has anyone performed one on their own or have a link to a test where it's been done? I've only messed with the mini in-store, so didn't have access to my Stereophile test tracks that test stereo separation. Just because there are two speakers doesn't mean it's stereo and a simple test can sort that out.

The more practical test it will certainly fail, and that's one I've noted before. If holding the device in landscape mode (i.e. watching a movie), a practical stereo speaker setup will allow you to track an object moving across the screen, even with your eyes closed.

After seeing the iPad Mini in person and toying with it for as long as I could without being rude to others who wanted to see it, I ultimately left the store and went to buy a Kindle Fire HD. I have an iPad 3 (and 3 of the iPad 2 models for other family members) so I was wanting something as a smaller media consumption device (books, movies). I really, really, wanted the iPad Mini to be it, but it just fell short. This was one of those areas. If I had to place money on it, I'd expect they'll address the display next year, but I fear they won't change the audio setup. Adding a speaker grill to the top of the device wouldn't be sleek enough and form has always far surpassed function at Apple.

I love my Apple gear (4 iPads, 4 iPhones, MBA, MBP, etc. in this house) but this one just doesn't cut it for me. I have my Fire HD for this year and we'll see what Apple comes out with in the iPad Mini line next year!
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:19 AM   #363
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The more practical test it will certainly fail, and that's one I've noted before. If holding the device in landscape mode (i.e. watching a movie), a practical stereo speaker setup will allow you to track an object moving across the screen, even with your eyes closed.
Well, that's what we love about well made movie soundtracks or music reproductions, isn't it. Sounds coming from the appropriate spot in the room to immerse us in the show. With my TV and 8 speakers, it's great.

But on a 7" device? I have to hold my iphone at 4" from my nose in order to get the same view as with my TV. A 7" screen would be slightly farther away, but still closer than I would ever use it. This just doesn't even matter in the real world, not on these devices.

Stereo = fine
Mono = fine
17 channel surround = fine

Just make sure the speakers aren't tinny and are well matched to the amp and volume adjustment of the device so they don't blow out easily. I want to be able to use the whole volume range on a device like this, not just 70% of it like on home stereos and such.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:32 AM   #364
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Yes, on a 7" device. I'm not calling for 7.1 or overly immersive audio. The fact is that moving from one channel to 2 channels with reasonable separation between them does wonders to create nice sound space when compared to sound coming from one side. Although my iPad 3 has a larger display than my Kindle Fire HD, I prefer watching on the Kindle.

For blockbuster movie titles, yeah I'll sit in my theater with Miller & Kreisel speakers, projector, etc. but when catching up on TV shows while sitting in another room, having decent stereo audio on a mobile device is more than adequate and sure beats sound coming from one spot.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:17 AM   #365
milo
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Originally Posted by RinCa View Post
Ridiculous.
Why? Pick up an iPad and listen to it. Are you saying you actually can hear that it's in stereo?


Quote:
Originally Posted by RinCa View Post
Since Apple listed "speaker" on their spec page for ALL ipads, people just assumed it was mono.
The previous iPads only had one speaker grille. Even if they were feeding stereo signal to two speakers (which they're probably not), where exactly would that center channel be coming out of the device?


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbrinkma View Post
I most certainly didn't blame Amazon (or anyone else) for Apple having 'incorrect or at the very least misleading info on their website'. I blamed Amazon for making an incorrect claim about a competitor's product. Apple isn't responsible for Amazon's actions any more than Amazon is responsible for Apple's.

The fact is, if you're going to do a spec-by-spec comparison of your product with a competitor's product, it's kind of important that you get the specs correct. On the other hand, if you want to 'short change' your own product in your own description, that's your right.
Amazon made a claim that made perfect sense based on the info on Apple's website. They came to the same conclusion everyone else did until someone actually took the device apart and discovered it was stereo. If apple says "speaker" on their website, then yes, in fact they are responsible for people reading that assuming the info is correct and there is one speaker.

Amazon used the specs from Apple's website. I'm not sure how people would expect Amazon to know that the info on Apple's website is wrong.

And I do agree that it's OK for a company to "short change" their own info...but if they do that, they also need to be OK with others repeating that wrong info.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech198 View Post
This would of be a better ugrade than just CPU, and the replacement doc connection, would be more of "WOW" factor.
So much "wow factor" that Apple keeps it a secret. Sure.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:51 AM   #366
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Again, has it been proven that it's a stereo speaker setup? The teardown only proved that there were two speakers, but nothing more. Most of what I've seen is people reporting the identification of two speakers to automatically equal stereo. I'm not stating that it's not, just that I haven't seen a single reference to a test for stereo speaker configuration.
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Old Nov 8, 2012, 08:38 PM   #367
RinCa
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Originally Posted by RinCa
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
Look at the story, it's not just what Schiller said. The teardown revealed two separate speakers sending audio through two grilles, and I assume they actually listened to the speakers and could tell it was actually putting out stereo (with terrible imaging, and they may have had to hold it right up to their face to even tell).

Just listen to any of the earlier ipads, they are clearly mono.
Ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo View Post
Why? Pick up an iPad and listen to it. Are you saying you actually can hear that it's in stereo?


The previous iPads only had one speaker grille. Even if they were feeding stereo signal to two speakers (which they're probably not), where exactly would that center channel be coming out of the device?
Ridiculous that you assume previous ipads, which have 2 speakers like the mini, are mono. No one from apple has confirmed nor deny if the previous ipads are stereo. They didn't confirm the mini was until someone pointedly asked them.

Since when do stereo speakers have to have a center channel? That's even more ridiculous.
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 03:39 PM   #368
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Ridiculous that you assume previous ipads, which have 2 speakers like the mini, are mono. No one from apple has confirmed nor deny if the previous ipads are stereo. They didn't confirm the mini was until someone pointedly asked them.
You don't have to assume anything. Just listen to any of those other iPads. The sound is clearly mono. Have you actually listened, and are you saying you think you hear stereo imaging?

If it obviously sounds like mono, nobody from apple has to "confirm" anything. I would like to hear from someone who has their hands on a mini about how it actually sounds.

Sorry about "center", it was a typo and I meant to say "second channel".
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Old Nov 9, 2012, 03:45 PM   #369
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I wish the Stereo speakers app worked for movies or whatever was playing. Alas it is only for iPod music. It works rather well though, at least in my rather brief use (i.e., mostly demoing).

It uses one iOS device to play left channel and another for right channel. I used it with iPad and iPhone and could definitely hear the separation.




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