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Old Nov 13, 2012, 04:35 PM   #1
Black Magic
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Windows 8 will Fail Part 2 - Casualties of War

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/13/...face-launches/


The first victim. Steve Ballmer is next.

Discuss.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:06 PM   #2
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I've used W8 and it's a good OS but not for desktops. And I think that's where MS miscalculated. W8 should have been renamed and only been released for tablets. It's a kickass OS under the hood, too bad it was forced on desktops and parts removed to even further force you into using it without hacking it.

It will be perceived as another Vista but it actually runs stable in it's current state and it's FAST unlike Vista.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 05:48 PM   #3
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Windows 8 = Great idea, terribly executed.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:17 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Vitruviux View Post
Windows 8 = Great idea, terribly executed.
Exactly. It is beautifully suited for tablets and even laptops, but it's useless for desktops which likely make up a large chunk of Microsoft's market share (corporate workstations). Until touchscreen desktops become the norm, I don't see corporate IT departments rushing to switch everyone over.

I do love WP8 and RT though.
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:19 PM   #5
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Yeah, like others said, when you actually use Windows 8 on a tablet it all starts making a lot of sense. Sadly that's not what most people are using it on
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:37 PM   #6
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I'm actually using it on a desktop with a logitech touchpad. Works great.

As a point and click OS, it has issues. As a gesture OS, it shines...until you hit desktop mode...
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 06:44 PM   #7
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Theres nothing wrong with it.

Much faster than windows 7 and more refined.


Note: I am using classic shell and boot straight to desktop. (Only use metro thingy for the mail app)
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Old Nov 13, 2012, 07:05 PM   #8
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It's $40. On the desktop side there were lots of improvements, it's just not a radical new OS. For the money on the desktop side I'd put it in line with an OSx update. But you also get Metro which I agree is half baked, but at least they are trying to advance instead of forcing us into a new OS like Apple did. Great ideas but poor execution, hopefully they can realize this and continue to improve it.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 06:58 AM   #9
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Ive had no problems using it on my PC. Can do things just as fast as Windows 7, dont think the gestures are that terrible to use. Just for the performance improvements I dont think I could go back to 7, it flies.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 08:52 AM   #10
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Like it a lot.

I love how minimal you can get with it and think 'poor execution' is quite exaggerated. I boot, log into Start screen (can immediately check/control my mails, contacts, dates etc., can launch Firefox and check MR....) or after ONE click go on to super minimal desktop mode. And everything is fast as hell. No fake leather, no aqua, no brushed 'steel', no aero. Great OS imho.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by twietee View Post
Like it a lot.

I love how minimal you can get with it and think 'poor execution' is quite exaggerated. I boot, log into Start screen (can immediately check/control my mails, contacts, dates etc., can launch Firefox and check MR....) or after ONE click go on to super minimal desktop mode. And everything is fast as hell. No fake leather, no aqua, no brushed 'steel', no aero. Great OS imho.
They could improve the Metro side by a lot.

Microsoft's web apps like Mail, SkyDrive and Contacts totally blow away Windows 8 counterparts in both the aesthetics and functionality too.

I also wish they'd change the paradigm to vertical scrolling from horizontal.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Vitruviux View Post
They could improve the Metro side by a lot.

Microsoft's web apps like Mail, SkyDrive and Contacts totally blow away Windows 8 counterparts in both the aesthetics and functionality too.

I also wish they'd change the paradigm to vertical scrolling from horizontal.
I had to transfer three 1GB files and SkyDrive couldn't do it. Had to revert to Google Drive. That means that Microsoft's web apps don't TOTALLY BLOW AWAY THE COMPETITION.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Vitruviux View Post
They could improve the Metro side by a lot.

Microsoft's web apps like Mail, SkyDrive and Contacts totally blow away Windows 8 counterparts in both the aesthetics and functionality too.

I also wish they'd change the paradigm to vertical scrolling from horizontal.
That may be so, I don't use web apps (and metro,too). I didn't say it's perfect though, but poor execution is too far fetched imo. I mean overall installation and so went very smooth and all - and I'm coming from XP 32bit, also quite messed up desktop - but still W8 doesn't recognize my ODD and now 5 of my 6 audio line-outs are out of order. It's far from perfect, but I can't understand where all this hate is coming from.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:28 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Vitruviux View Post
Microsoft's web apps like Mail, SkyDrive and Contacts totally blow away Windows 8 counterparts in both the aesthetics and functionality too.
I don't get that, either. I like Windows 8 just fine, but the default metro apps kinda blow some chunks. You hop onto Hotmail (or whatever it's called these days), and the first thing you'll notice is how clean and easy to navigate it is. Metro mail? Well...it's...usable, I guess. Kinda surprising considering MS has been doing email for years and years now. Skydrive fares a little better, but still. The web client is awesome. The desktop app is great. The Metro rev? It's alright. Kinda sloppy and less verbose in comparison to its counterparts.

You'd think that considering MS has already done their apps so well elsewhere, they'd be able to do the same for their flagship make or break product. All they had to do was copy the design and tweak it a bit. The Skydrive web client is already pretty touch friendly. All they had to do was take what was there and make some of the targets a little larger. Instead, they oversimplified it and wasted a whole bunch of space.

Since I don't use the metro apps all that often (cept for Netflix, which is awesome), it's not that big of a deal. But what if I decide to get a Surface Pro? I'm going to want to use touch friendly applications while I'm holding it like a tablet. I'll have to use the lacking versions to get the full "touch" experience. Hopefully MS will have updated the apps a bit to better match their desktop counterparts by the time it comes out.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by netdog View Post
I had to transfer three 1GB files and SkyDrive couldn't do it. Had to revert to Google Drive. That means that Microsoft's web apps don't TOTALLY BLOW AWAY THE COMPETITION.
Mind you iDisk would have been so painfully slow most people would probably give up waiting.

-------------

A few weeks ago I installed windows 8 on Parrellels, previously I just used XP and to be honest the performance is pretty good, better than XP or Windows 7. I'm liking the UI too.. its fresh and over all, I find the Start screen faster than using the Start Menu. The widgets for desktop windows are very minimal and plain, which is nice too.

I can totally see how the UI fits a tablet better.

Apple could learn a thing or two, iOS is looking old and dated by comparision.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:30 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by netdog View Post
I had to transfer three 1GB files and SkyDrive couldn't do it. Had to revert to Google Drive. That means that Microsoft's web apps don't TOTALLY BLOW AWAY THE COMPETITION.
What went wrong? I've transferred tons of 1GB plus files over Skydrive, and haven't had a single problem. In fact, I'd almost put it up there with Dropbox as far as quality and reliability go.

...maybe your internet connection was flaky? I dunno...
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitruviux View Post
They could improve the Metro side by a lot.

Microsoft's web apps like Mail, SkyDrive and Contacts totally blow away Windows 8 counterparts in both the aesthetics and functionality too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I don't get that, either. I like Windows 8 just fine, but the default metro apps kinda blow some chunks. You hop onto Hotmail (or whatever it's called these days), and the first thing you'll notice is how clean and easy to navigate it is. Metro mail? Well...it's...usable, I guess.
Stupid question on my side, but are these 'web-apps' you are referring to the mail, contact tiles on the Start screen? Because I like those. Don't really know that Metro thing though, maybe because I use an iPhone.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 09:45 AM   #18
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Stupid question on my side, but are these 'web-apps' you are referring to the mail, contact tiles on the Start screen? Because I like those. Don't really know that Metro thing though, maybe because I use an iPhone.
Nope. The web apps would be the ones you access through a browser. The tiles you see on the start screen are the metro versions, and I find them a little lacking in comparison.

Right now I'd even argue that the iOS rev of Skydrive is better than the one on Windows 8. I use Skydrive on my iPad quite a bit, and think it's great. The W8 version is nicer looking, but it feels a little too crowded, and doesn't give you as much information.

edit: I'll give you a nice example.

This is Metro Skydrive. Nice in a minimalistic sorta way, but also lacking because of it.

The Skydrive Web App, which is about what I think the Metro version should look like.

And the iOS version, which is very Appleish and iOS in style.

If all you want to do is view your files, then the Metro version is arguably the best. For everything else, it falls short. It doesn't give you nearly enough options. It's all style, no substance.

Last edited by Renzatic; Nov 14, 2012 at 10:00 AM.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:07 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by twietee View Post
Like it a lot.

I love how minimal you can get with it and think 'poor execution' is quite exaggerated. I boot, log into Start screen (can immediately check/control my mails, contacts, dates etc., can launch Firefox and check MR....) or after ONE click go on to super minimal desktop mode. And everything is fast as hell. No fake leather, no aqua, no brushed 'steel', no aero. Great OS imho.
The start menu is a piece of **** and will not get used in a corporate environment. Its a mess and the way it doesn't handle windows in IE/Chrome or what ever and just tabs is really poor.

All I do is work from the desktop. The rest of it is pointless.

I wish my company would go Macs.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:19 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Nope. The web apps would be the ones you access through a browser. The tiles you see on the start screen are the metro versions, and I find them a little lacking in comparison.

Right now I'd even argue that the iOS rev of Skydrive is better than the one on Windows 8. I use Skydrive on my iPad quite a bit, and think it's great. The W8 version is nicer looking, but it feels a little too crowded, and doesn't give you as much information.

edit: I'll give you a nice example.

This is Metro Skydrive. Nice in a minimalistic sorta way, but also lacking because of it.

The Skydrive Web App, which is about what I think the Metro version should look like.

And the iOS version, which is very Appleish and iOS in style.

If all you want to do is view your files, then the Metro version is arguably the best. For everything else, it falls short. It doesn't give you nearly enough options. It's all style, no substance.
I see. Thank you for that, and I would agree with your opinion. To be honest, I just use dates and mail from these apps...so I can't really judge that. Deleted almost everything there and just have my own programs 'tiling the screen'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
The start menu is a piece of **** and will not get used in a corporate environment. Its a mess and the way it doesn't handle windows in IE/Chrome or what ever and just tabs is really poor.

All I do is work from the desktop. The rest of it is pointless.

I wish my company would go Macs.
My office works with Macs and I like that. But it's not like OSX is perfect. But what do I know.

So how do you launch your programs? From the dock / desktop? I find it much more convenient quickly switching to 'start' screen which contains all of my programs and booom! My 'desktop' contains about nothing = the best for me.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:28 AM   #21
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The start menu is a piece of **** and will not get used in a corporate environment. Its a mess and the way it doesn't handle windows in IE/Chrome or what ever and just tabs is really poor.

All I do is work from the desktop. The rest of it is pointless.

I wish my company would go Macs.
Man, living up to that avatar, aren't you?

For about the ten millionth billionth thousandth time, I'm gonna post a shot of my start screen. How is that a mess? Everything's right there. Easy to hit, and easy to find.

It's not like you're in the start screen all the time. You just go there to launch apps and do searches. I might hit it up about two or three times a day. The rest is spent...wait for it...on the desktop, which isn't all that different from what it was in 7.

And lastly, what do you mean by the way "it doesn't handle windows, just tabs" in IE and Chrome?
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:33 AM   #22
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Man, living up to that avatar, aren't you?

For about the ten millionth billionth thousandth time, I'm gonna post a shot of my start screen. How is that a mess? Everything's right there. Easy to hit, and easy to find.

It's not like you're in the start screen all the time. You just go there to launch apps and do searches. I might hit it up about two or three times a day. The rest is spent...wait for it...on the desktop, which isn't all that different from what it was in 7.

And lastly, what do you mean by the way "it doesn't handle windows, just tabs" in IE and Chrome?
Very clean, I like it. I'm going to install Windows 8 an a spare hard drive and play around with it for a while. Maybe I'll stick with it....
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:47 AM   #23
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Man, living up to that avatar, aren't you?

For about the ten millionth billionth thousandth time, I'm gonna post a shot of my start screen. How is that a mess? Everything's right there. Easy to hit, and easy to find.

It's not like you're in the start screen all the time. You just go there to launch apps and do searches. I might hit it up about two or three times a day. The rest is spent...wait for it...on the desktop, which isn't all that different from what it was in 7.

And lastly, what do you mean by the way "it doesn't handle windows, just tabs" in IE and Chrome?
The start menu is **** and a mess. Its absolutely pointless. I have my programmes I need in the Task bar to avoid the start menu at all costs.

Launch IE as a default browser and when its launched you can't get windows to alt+tab on. It only works with tabs because that's how it would work on a tablet.

Its a load of crap.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of it is really nice. The start menu isn't.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:49 AM   #24
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Very clean, I like it. I'm going to install Windows 8 an a spare hard drive and play around with it for a while. Maybe I'll stick with it....
Just keep in mind that you are gonna hate it for about the first week. I know I did. :P

...but if you stick with it, you can navigate it faster than old Windows. Remember, left-clicking on the bottom left corner takes you to the start screen, right-clicking brings up this super handy thing...



You never have to go to the Metro control panel unless you're changing the background and color of the start screen, or want to wipe Windows and start factory default. This confuses whole loads of people who think everything's been split between it and the old control panel. It really hasn't, though both do overlap in some places. Remember, desktop: old control panel. Metro stuff: new control panel (this is one of my main criticisms of Win8, by the way).

Lastly and most importantly, shutting down and restarting can be done quickly by bringing up the charms menu, hitting the settings gear icon, and hitting the little power button at the bottom of the screen. Yeah, this should be right up front on the start page. But it's not. Cuz someone at MS is dumb.

This should hopefully answer all the confusing crap you're bound to have questions about at first.
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Old Nov 14, 2012, 10:50 AM   #25
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I see. Thank you for that, and I would agree with your opinion. To be honest, I just use dates and mail from these apps...so I can't really judge that. Deleted almost everything there and just have my own programs 'tiling the screen'.



My office works with Macs and I like that. But it's not like OSX is perfect. But what do I know.

So how do you launch your programs? From the dock / desktop? I find it much more convenient quickly switching to 'start' screen which contains all of my programs and booom! My 'desktop' contains about nothing = the best for me.
How is that more convenient than launching from the taskbar??
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