Android fragmentation but on the same phone

[jsw]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

The iphone 4 is a two year old phone.

It was ~16 months old when Siri came out and wasn't allowed to run on it, despite running fine on it and the 3GS until Apple bought the company. Had the iPhone 4S never come out and the iPhone 5 came out over two years after the iPhone 4 release, it would have made more sense to have features not on the 4.

Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

[onthecouchagain]

Plus, Google's lack of fear of fragmentation really allows them to, once in a while, make a gigantic leap in software. Think Gingerbread to ICS.

Whereas Apple, in trying to keep legacy devices in the loop, have to make more moderate upgrades to Software (in which some devices, even just one year old, won't get the main feature of said update). It's a slow and long game that I think some are growing, and others will grow, wary of.

[ChazUK]

Originally Posted by jsw

It was ~16 months old when Siri came out and wasn't allowed to run on it, despite running fine on it and the 3GS until Apple bought the company. Had the iPhone 4S never come out and the iPhone 5 came out over two years after the iPhone 4 release, it would have made more sense to have features not on the 4.

Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

I was surprised to see my Galaxy Nexus get Photosphere with the 4.2 update alongside my Nexus S getting panorama when it was upped from Gingerbread to ICS. They even added the Face Unlock stuff to the Nexus S back in the day and Google Now to the Nexus S JellyBean builds.

Nexus updates have, so far for me, given feature parity across multiple devices which is a massive difference to what Apple have given my iPhone 4 or iPad 2.

[RMXO]

go to xda-developers.com & learn how to free yourself from waiting for carrier updates. Rooting & installing new ROM's are very easy once you get the hang of it. My best recommendation for you if you decide this route, is to read & re-read until you are comfortable at it. Ask questions if you have an questions but don't expect to be spoon feed. Use the search function first then ask if you can't find an answer.

There will be threads with how-to's so some of your questions should be answered in them.

One of the main things about rooting & custom ROMs is that it allows you to backup your apps, perform a nandroid & remove carrier bloatwares. Of course, there are more but the rest is up to you to find out.

[daveathall]

Are the Nexus updates only OTA or is there a Google app or the like to update ones phone?

[jsw]

Originally Posted by daveathall

Are the Nexus updates only OTA or is there a Google app or the like to update ones phone?

They're OTA.

They also release the update files, and you can install them yourself if you've rooted the phone, but it's not a simple click-click-and-done thing.

[ChazUK]

Originally Posted by jsw

They're OTA.

They also release the update files, and you can install them yourself if you've rooted the phone, but it's not a simple click-click-and-done thing.

You can also now update via ADB thanks to the new recovery option to push the update.zip to the phone over USB.

Requires some SDK configuration but no root is necessary.

[jsw]

Originally Posted by ChazUK

You can also now update via ADB thanks to the new recovery option to push the update.zip to the phone over USB.

Requires some SDK configuration but no root is necessary.

My bad! Even better.

[daveathall]

Thank you very much for your answers, I am really not technically savvy or confident so would just use the OTA updates.

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by jsw

Google, at least, supports features that the hardware allows.

Google might but that doesnt matter if the manufacturer doesn't. Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android. Apple, while leaving off some features, has never fully abandoned one of their new phones.

[jsw]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android.

... and which were then supported by the developer community.

Your point?

[onthecouchagain]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

Google might but that doesnt matter if the manufacturer doesn't. Android's history is littered with phones abandoned by manufacturers or carriers well before they were even a year old and whose hardware could easily run the newest versions of Android. Apple, while leaving off some features, has never fully abandoned one of their new phones.

So, Android and the nature of its methods aren't for you. You've expressed very clearly how the Nexus line is not an option for you, and other Android devices with untimely updates (read: all of them) are deal-breakers. You seem to really care about timely updates, even if they aren't in full, so unless you're considering Windows (in which case, it's odd to see you posting so much in Android threads) why are you still here? You're free to do what you like, of course, but I can think of only one reason why you're actively posting in Android threads.


By the way, let me help refresh your memory:

Originally Posted by onthecouchagain

You're here to consider the Note II or Droid DNA? Maybe you are, maybe you aren't, but if I may quote your own words regarding updates and fragmentation, which the Note II/DNA will inevitably have trouble with:

"completely unacceptable"

"gone from bad to worse to pathetic..."

"the final straw..."

"Seriously, WTF?"

"great OS completely destroyed by things like this that continue to upset its customers and make them choose other options."

"I now have an iPHone 5 with no intentions on ever going back until something is done."

"Shame."

I think that it's time to take some of my own advice, and pay michaeljohn no more heed.

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by jsw

... and which were then supported by the developer community.

Your point?

Really? I was not aware of any 2 year old Android phones which were released with outdated software then abandoned still being supported with the the current Android OS. Phones like the Motorola Devour, Motorola Cliq XT, LG Ally, HTC My Touch 3G slide, HTC Aria and countless others. could you please let us know where dev support for these phones running JellyBean is at? Thanks

[jsw]

Originally Posted by onthecouchagain

I think that it's time to take some of my own advice, and pay michaeljohn no more heed.

Agreed.

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by onthecouchagain

So, Android and the nature of its methods aren't for you. You've expressed very clearly how the Nexus line is not an option for you, and other Android devices with untimely updates (read: all of them) are deal-breakers. You seem to really care about timely updates, even if they aren't in full, so unless you're considering Windows (in which case, it's odd to see you posting so much in Android threads) why are you still here? You're free to do what you like, of course, but I can think of only one reason why you're actively posting in Android threads.

I really like Android, I am just sick of buying a brand new phone thats always an update or two behind and getting the shaft while other phones get updated, even the SAME one I have but on a different carrier. Then having to pay retail for a new one 6 months later because I want the shiny new OS but my "old" phone has already been put on the back burner, its ridiculous and pathetic. I would be all over the Nexus 4 if Google hadnt gone the cheap route and left LTE radios out of it. New phones like the Droid DNA still keep me interested and are almost making me get one despite the carrier BS, so thats why I keep up in here.

[ChazUK]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

Really? I was not aware of any 2 year old Android phones which were released with outdated software then abandoned still being supported with the the current Android OS. Phones like the Motorola Devour, Motorola Cliq XT, LG Ally, HTC My Touch 3G slide, HTC Aria and countless others. could you please let us know where dev support for these phones running JellyBean is at? Thanks

Motorola Devour - Released Feb 2010
Motorola Cliq XT - Released Mar 2010
LG Ally - Released May 2010
MyTouch 3G Slide - Released Mar 2010
HTC Aria - Released June 2010

Sources: http://www.phonearena.com

All of those handsets listed are over 2 years old.

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by ChazUK

Motorola Devour - Released Feb 2010
Motorola Cliq XT - Released Mar 2010
LG Ally - Released May 2010
MyTouch 3G Slide - Released Mar 2010
HTC Aria - Released June 2010

Sources: http://www.phonearena.com

All of those handsets listed are over 2 years old.

The iphone 4 was released in June 2010. Its over 2 years old as well but is still updated to iOS 6. Where is Jelly Bean for the phones listed above? Hell, those phone never even saw ICS. Pathetic.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

The iphone 4 is a two year old phone. There are no 2 year old Android phones outside of the Nexus line even running JB, let alone 4.2 There are new phones like the S3 not even 6 months old running an outdated OS thats two versions behind. completely unacceptable.

siri was only 1 year out.

The point that I am making is your claim that iPhones get upgraded to iOS6.

It gets a sudo upgrade but not really there. They put pretty bogus blocks in them.
Also the Nexus S is running on Jelly bean. It is not getting 4.2.

[ChazUK]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

The iphone 4 was released in June 2010. Its over 2 years old as well but is still updated to iOS 6. Where is Jelly Bean for the phones listed above? Hell, those phone never even saw ICS. Pathetic.

Definitely pathetic but my Nexus S, released December 2010 had all of these features alongside my Galaxy Nexus:
Panoramic camera.
Google Maps Navigation.
Google Earth with 3d buildings.
Google Now.

iPhone 4 is missing:
Panoramic Camera.
Apple Maps Navigation.
Flyover.
Siri.

Pathetic. e.t.c.

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by "

Definitely pathetic but my Nexus S, released December 2010 had all of these features alongside my Galaxy Nexus:
Panoramic camera.
Google Maps Navigation.
Google Earth with 3d buildings.
Google Now.

iPhone 4 is missing:
Panoramic Camera.
Apple Maps Navigation.
Flyover.
Siri.

Pathetic. e.t.c.

Thats why I said "outside of the Nexus line" Find another 2 year old Android phone getting upgraded to JB, good luck...

[Lara F]

Look, I agree it sucks but if you're on Verizon you 1) wait for OTA updates longer than any other carrier 2) root or 3) go iPhone. That's it and it's not likely to change anytime soon. After how Verizon treated the Galaxy Nexus are you really going to blame Google for not going with them again?

I know Verizon has the best coverage, but this is the price you pay for going with them. And if you're in an urban area I suspect you're not being open minded about alternatives. T-Mobile on +42 HSPA should have excellent speeds on the Nexus 4 and there's over 100 US cities included:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/goo...2-markets.html

[onthecouchagain]

It's really mind blowing people can't understand Android's model. Even if one doesn't like it, can they not see that it's an entirely different idea and approach?

Apple makes iOS and makes the iPhone. They started out on one carrier for 4 years, but that worked out in their favor. They retain control of updates.

Google makes Android, OEMs make the hardware, and unfortunately, the carriers control most of the update process. Google isn't in the position to negotiate favorably with the carriers. Not yet anyway. That's what the Nexus is about. If you hate carriers delaying updates to Android, even if you aren't getting the Nexus 4, you should be in support of the program. Not everything is going to jump off in a flash and be where you want it to be. The Nexus smartphone is, in my opinion, only now finally coming into its own. It's just the modest beginnings. It's absurd to try to compare the two, then get mad that it's not exactly where Apple is. It's equally absurd to try to compare the OEM phones to Apple, as that's a vastly different model and approach.

Google is at least trying to offer a line that attempts to emulate what Apple is doing. There are compromises though because even that, they're doing via a different approach (unlocked, affordable, carrier-free).

You pick and choose what's best for you. Difficult choices are still better than no choices.

EDIT: Keep in mind, that's not to say the OEMs/carriers shouldn't get better at updating. They should. And though there's plenty of room for improvements still, they are getting better.

Anyone who acquiesce and replies to michaeljohn's "arguments" are wasting their time, and only feeding him. I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T" word, but check his post history. It's your choice, of course, to reply to whoever you want, but just pointing it out.

EDIT 2: It's ridiculous to respond to the whole "please find me a 2 year old phone that does this and that." Who cares about two year old phones? Yes, these are problems of Android of yesteryear(s).

[michaeljohn]

Originally Posted by Lara F

Look, I agree it sucks but if you're on Verizon you 1) wait for OTA updates longer than any other carrier 2) root or 3) go iPhone. That's it and it's not likely to change anytime soon. After how Verizon treated the Galaxy Nexus are you really going to blame Google for not going with them again?

I know Verizon has the best coverage, but this is the price you pay for going with them. And if you're in an urban area I suspect you're not being open minded about alternatives. T-Mobile on +42 HSPA should have excellent speeds on the Nexus 4 and there's over 100 US cities included:
http://forums.androidcentral.com/goo...2-markets.html

Thanks, it truly depends on your area. I have had all 4 major carriers and in this area, Verizon is by far the fastest data and best for voice as well. T Mobile is awful out here. Had to walk outside of my house just to get a signal and service goes in and out all over the place. I wouldnt have their service for free. You are right, I will have to live with an outdated Android phone or keep my iPhone 5.

----------

Originally Posted by onthecouchagain

Anyone who acquiesce and replies to michaeljohn's "arguments" are wasting their time, and only feeding him. I'm not allowed to use the big bad "T" word, but check his post history. It's your choice, of course, to reply to whoever you want, but just pointing it out.

Says the guy who has been following me into every single thread and posting the same things about me. Please stop harassing me. If you dont agree with me, thats fine. There is no need to follow me into every thread copying and pasting what you said about me and my views in 4 other threads.

[ChazUK]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

Thats why I said "outside of the Nexus line"

The situation with carriers and OEM's dropping support for hardware is something that really puts me off of non Nexus Android hardware so I agree with you 100% there.

personal tale of Android woe
I got stung with an Orange UK branded HTC Hero that was left on Android 1.5, just because Orange UK hadn't otimised their crap bundled software for the new firmware. They totally skipped 1.6 and jumped to 2.1 eventually then abandoned the phone with CyanogenMod picking up the pieces for me where HTC and Orange UK left behind. From that day on I vowed never to get a carrier branded handset again and you know what, it worked! #happyending

I also dislike the way Apple withhold "features" on older handsets, especially when the jailbreak community manage to add more and more functionality to older models (MMS on the original iPhone really stuck out in my mind as a real dick move by Apple).

You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where GSM the whole GSM/CDMA network setup limits your carrier choice.
You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where CDMA networks effect open development due to licensing issues (Google had issues even getting their CDMA hardware compatible with AOSP in the past).
You are stuck in an unfortunate situation where your carrier choice may hamper if and when you get updated and the fact that they have to certify the crap they want to push on their phone.

Given your situation I'd go iPhone and nothing else on CDMA, or suffer a GSM network with an unlocked Nexus device, and that is me being honest.

[onthecouchagain]

Originally Posted by michaeljohn

Says the guy who has been following me into every single thread and posting the same things about me. Please stop harassing me. If you dont agree with me, thats fine. There is no need to follow me into every thread copying and pasting what you said about me and my views in 4 other threads.

Please. I'm posting in these threads because I'm actually interested in an honest discussion about Alternatives to iOS. I cannot say confidently that you are here for the same reasons.

It's not that I don't agree with you, per se, it's just that you're being amazingly inconsistent with your positions and in your attempts to berate anything non-iPhone, which leads me to only one conclusion as to why you're here. And it's not very hard to demonstrate this reason; the evidence is in your own words.

But don't worry. I won't be replying to you again.