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Old Nov 17, 2012, 02:42 PM   #1
Tri-stan
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Windows 8 or new iMac?

I have already got a custom windows 7 system as listed in my signature. I was originally thinking of selling it and getting a new iMac. Now that I have had a bit more time to read opinions of them I don't know if it is worth getting as it will be near enough the same spec as I have now minus the screen (this could be upgraded) If you are familiar with the u2711 you will know all about the AG coating.

I intend to use the machine for my masters in architecture and I am not sure which setup would best benefit me giving that there would be some cash spare if I kept my current system. Although it could be debated that I would be better off with the iMac or even mbp?

I don't just want the machine to last for the course but go on after that so it's got to last at least 5 years to make economic sense or retain some value in three years time.

There is known problems with both options.

Briefly iMacs: can't run as much architecture software, can't be repaired without apple cover or much upgraded, expensive.

Briefly PC's: windows os can have random driver related blue screens on a brand new system, take up a lot of space and are hard to move, further behind technology speaking, general stability problems are the worst for me I dont want my system going down all the time.

Given the choise which one should I go for given that with the spare cash I could buy an A1 plotter without being broke.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:18 PM   #2
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Possible two displays I could get for my windows 8 box!



http://www.engadget.com/2012/08/27/l...-wqhd-monitor/

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For reference the 2012 iMac. Main headline states that it is thin!

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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:32 PM   #3
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I think you should stay with the windows box. Any well built of isn't going to have stability problems and you can use the money you save.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 03:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
I have already got a custom windows 7 system as listed in my signature. I was originally thinking of selling it and getting a new iMac. Now that I have had a bit more time to read opinions of them I don't know if it is worth getting as it will be near enough the same spec as I have now minus the screen (this could be upgraded) If you are familiar with the u2711 you will know all about the AG coating.

I intend to use the machine for my masters in architecture and I am not sure which setup would best benefit me giving that there would be some cash spare if I kept my current system. Although it could be debated that I would be better off with the iMac or even mbp?

I don't just want the machine to last for the course but go on after that so it's got to last at least 5 years to make economic sense or retain some value in three years time.

There is known problems with both options.

Briefly iMacs: can't run as much architecture software, can't be repaired without apple cover or much upgraded, expensive.

Briefly PC's: windows os can have random driver related blue screens on a brand new system, take up a lot of space and are hard to move, further behind technology speaking, general stability problems are the worst for me I dont want my system going down all the time.

Given the choise which one should I go for given that with the spare cash I could buy an A1 plotter without being broke.
What makes you think PCs are behind the technology curve? I can guarantee you it is quite the opposite, Macs tend to be the ones "behind" the curve. Weaker hardware, less repairability, much weaker software support, etc.

You do not get "random" driver blue screens on Windows. If you have something causing blue screens, fix it. You should NEVER get a blue screen these days in Windows, if you do something is seriously wrong. You are just as likely, if not more so, to get kernel panics in OSX.

If you have a working Win 7 box, stick with it. I have a Mac Pro I am on the verge of selling and moving back to Windows. Windows is just generally superior on more fronts these days, and you get fantastic value for your money, while at the same time getting BETTER technology, stability, and flexibility. Yes OSX is a bit prettier, but that is the primary advantage, and when it comes to work and results, the OSX advantages generally do not matter.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:11 PM   #5
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I would never recommend Windows, especially not Windows 8. iMacs are, hands down, the best desktops on Earth if you don't mind having an AIO.

If you stick with a PC, what can I say? Well, at least the LG girl in the photo above is cute...
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:23 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TennisandMusic View Post
What makes you think PCs are behind the technology curve? I can guarantee you it is quite the opposite, Macs tend to be the ones "behind" the curve. Weaker hardware, less repairability, much weaker software support, etc.

You do not get "random" driver blue screens on Windows. If you have something causing blue screens, fix it. You should NEVER get a blue screen these days in Windows, if you do something is seriously wrong. You are just as likely, if not more so, to get kernel panics in OSX.

If you have a working Win 7 box, stick with it. I have a Mac Pro I am on the verge of selling and moving back to Windows. Windows is just generally superior on more fronts these days, and you get fantastic value for your money, while at the same time getting BETTER technology, stability, and flexibility. Yes OSX is a bit prettier, but that is the primary advantage, and when it comes to work and results, the OSX advantages generally do not matter.
I've been told the opposite in terms of mac reliability/stability. You are rocking pretty old hardware with the Mac pro, new hardware will only make the machine run more smoothly. A refresh is due soon right. In terms of the technology curve macs are far infront in screen technology and hardware software integration.

Take this, my windows machine for every 40 or so sleep cycles the computer would randomly shut off completely/blue screen when entering sleep mode. It seems to do it for no apparent reason. I have also been having loads of flash problems with that stopping working. With windows just loads of little niggles which make it a bad user experience. I don't know if the refined windows 8 will solve this or not. I was looking to iMac for a more simple user experience that I can rely on. No one that I have to keep babysitting all the time, I am fed up dealing with this crap all the time.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 05:42 PM   #7
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I've been told the opposite in terms of mac reliability/stability. You are rocking pretty old hardware with the Mac pro, new hardware will only make the machine run more smoothly. A refresh is due soon right. In terms of the technology curve macs are far infront in screen technology and hardware software integration.

Take this, my windows machine for every 40 or so sleep cycles the computer would randomly shut off completely/blue screen when entering sleep mode. It seems to do it for no apparent reason. I have also been having loads of flash problems with that stopping working. With windows just loads of little niggles which make it a bad user experience. I don't know if the refined windows 8 will solve this or not. I was looking to iMac for a more simple user experience that I can rely on. No one that I have to keep babysitting all the time, I am fed up dealing with this crap all the time.
Well I have an iMac which I think is great. However, I also run Windows as a VM with W7 which is also great. Before the iMac I had a full Windows machine, it too was first class. As another poster has said you really shouldn't ever see a blue screen on Windows these days - it's years since I last saw one plus I don't have niggles either. You know what they say about a good workmen not blaming his tools. I have just upgraded my Lappy to W8 and it's rock solid stable, the boot times are very fast indeed. If you want to save some cash then pay the small bit of cash to upgrade to W8 Pro and try it out. It has to be your decision though, you should do what's right for you.
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Old Nov 17, 2012, 08:55 PM   #8
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I have been looking in to the bsod now and there seems to be a problem with my ocz vertex 3 or its controller on the main board. Error atapi: The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0 so it seems to be hardware/firmware related.

This is not what I want to be dealing with windows machines. With a mac this sort of thing would have been cleared in testing. Having a mac now would mean not having to mess around when these situations arise in windows machines.

Still I am not sure if I want to get rid of this win box. It seems like the knowledgeable people on here all have experience on good working windows machines. Funny people using macs never really have to deal with these problems.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:33 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
I've been told the opposite in terms of mac reliability/stability. You are rocking pretty old hardware with the Mac pro, new hardware will only make the machine run more smoothly. A refresh is due soon right. In terms of the technology curve macs are far infront in screen technology and hardware software integration.

Take this, my windows machine for every 40 or so sleep cycles the computer would randomly shut off completely/blue screen when entering sleep mode. It seems to do it for no apparent reason. I have also been having loads of flash problems with that stopping working. With windows just loads of little niggles which make it a bad user experience. I don't know if the refined windows 8 will solve this or not. I was looking to iMac for a more simple user experience that I can rely on. No one that I have to keep babysitting all the time, I am fed up dealing with this crap all the time.
I use Windows laptops for work. Formerly I used Vista. With 4 GB of RAM on the system it was nearly unusable. Constant crashes and hangs. Sleep/wake worked occasionally. It never made it through a week without a blue screen.

A few months ago I switched to a new system running Windows 7. The system has 8 GB of RAM. It crashes only rarely, which I attribute to the fact that I never run low on free RAM. It's still a hateful, time-wasting, high-maintenance experience. The whole package just feels like it was put together by amateurs, from the system to the OS to most of the applications.

I'm WAY past the point of caring about the numbers in on the spec sheet. I only care that a computer can do what I need done, and waste as little of my time as possible. That makes Mac OS about 10 times better value for me than Windows. If the software I need is available for the Mac, I won't voluntarily run it on Windows, period.

My employer doesn't share my viewpoint; they are perfectly willing to pay us to be less productive with their choice of software, and we've pretty much given up suggesting alternatives.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 07:42 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-stan View Post
I have been looking in to the bsod now and there seems to be a problem with my ocz vertex 3 or its controller on the main board. Error atapi: The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0 so it seems to be hardware/firmware related.
That error looks like your SATA controller is set as IDE mode and not AHCI, SSDs don't play nice with legacy IDE mode.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:11 AM   #11
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One thing to consider in your situation is how long can you go without a computer? If your Windows machine goes down you can get parts overnighted, fix it yourself and be running the next day. If your iMac goes down you may not get it back from Apple for several days to several weeks.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:36 AM   #12
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That error looks like your SATA controller is set as IDE mode and not AHCI, SSDs don't play nice with legacy IDE mode.
I have checked all of the obvious things and it is running in AHCI mode. It only registers, The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0

The driver detected a controller error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0

Below is what happened through the point of waking the computer.
Did it for a second time and the computer produced a blue screen.
Now after the computer has been restarted there are no errors present
when putting the computer through a sleep cycle. I will only have so many
cycles until the errors start building again and I will get another blue screen.
Just loaded a youtube video put it in to sleep and the computer crashed again.
No error on \Device\Ide\IdePort0 this time. Man this is so weird what is happening.

I also keep getting flash player has stopped working or is unresponsive randomly through waking or just using the computer. Not so much with other programs.

I am going to try a ocz firmware update to see if that fixes it.

Sample of errors produced through wake, simluar for sleep:

Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None
Error 17/11/2012 07:15:25 atapi 11 None

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow Programmer View Post
One thing to consider in your situation is how long can you go without a computer? If your Windows machine goes down you can get parts overnighted, fix it yourself and be running the next day. If your iMac goes down you may not get it back from Apple for several days to several weeks.
So the only machine which is comparable to what I am running now is the mac pro and that is well out of my price range. Ow I wish Apple made their computer hardware more user friendly.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 08:46 AM   #13
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You know.. You can buy an expensive car, or a cheap car. The expensive one is expensive to fix, if and when it goes wrong. But it's better built so goes wrong less. The cheap car is cheaper to fix when it goes wrong, so no one really gives a crap when it goes wrong, because, well, it's cheap..
It really isn't a whole lot different with computers. Sure, iMacs, or Macs in general are not very user serviceable. But so what? They don't go wrong a whole lot either. I've had 4 or 5 iMacs, and will soon get a 6th. 1 failed HD is about all thats gone wrong in all of them put together (And it's not like Apple made the HD anyway. Thank Western Digital for that).
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:07 AM   #14
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You know.. You can buy an expensive car, or a cheap car. The expensive one is expensive to fix, if and when it goes wrong. But it's better built so goes wrong less. The cheap car is cheaper to fix when it goes wrong, so no one really gives a crap when it goes wrong, because, well, it's cheap..
It really isn't a whole lot different with computers. Sure, iMacs, or Macs in general are not very user serviceable. But so what? They don't go wrong a whole lot either. I've had 4 or 5 iMacs, and will soon get a 6th. 1 failed HD is about all thats gone wrong in all of them put together (And it's not like Apple made the HD anyway. Thank Western Digital for that).
The car analogy is not a very good one as expensive cars can go wrong more than a cheap simple well built car. Computers are more or less the same but with differences in component build up and software. This is within the consumer line anyway. We are not going to start comparing Xeon and ecc configurations because that is when it starts to get complicated.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:28 AM   #15
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Windows 8 is the worst thing I've ever used. I guess I'm too old but I just can't stand that UI. I despise it on the xbox as well and wont ever use a Windows phone. It's just a way to push dozens of ads at you. W8 is set up to track every url you visit, every program you download or install, what you click on and more and report it all back to MS - for your safety of course! Ironically, they've added 'do not track' to ie 10.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:48 AM   #16
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On the Desktop side, the iMac is really about choosing OS X. They are very capable machine and worth the money, but of course, you have to consider that you pay the premium a bit to get OS X. They are also wonderfully designed machine and they work well, but since Desktop aren't machine that you move and hold in your hands every day, this make this design aspect less important and critical. It always matter, just not as much as on laptops.

However, on the laptop side, overall design tend to matter way much more, and in this area, it's more than just Windows vs OS X like on Desktop. Apple laptops are really the only laptops where the trackpad really work as it should. If you look at the MacBook Pro, it is a very portable powerhouse machine with very good battery life, good screen, good I/O, good design, good processing power, etc. These machines are worth every penny.

Honestly, I believe that if you can afford it, the MacBook Pro (retina or not) are the best choice for a student in your situation, and i would consider adding an external display when you are at home. You will also get a way higher resale value in 3 years if you wish to upgrade.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:17 AM   #17
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Go for a new Mac, whichever model you feel best serves your purpose and budget. You won't be sorry. OS X is an elegant operating system that is a pleasure to use and as people will often say, things just work.

People can say what they will about Windows or imply that your troubles with your current system are somehow your fault but the bottom line is that in your own personal experience Windows has been a real pain in the ass. Why put up with that when there is a superior alternative and you can afford it? What is your time worth? How about your sanity?

I switched back in May of this year and I love my iMac. It's a joy to use and hasn't given me a single problem of any kind. Everything just works.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:35 AM   #18
Tri-stan
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This guy hits the nail right on the head for me, Windows 8 vs Mac osx



No embedded youtube arrr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2Dv...eature=related

Better sticking with seven or buy iMac equivalent.. 8 sucks
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:36 AM   #19
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On the Desktop side, the iMac is really about choosing OS X. They are very capable machine and worth the money, but of course, you have to consider that you pay the premium a bit to get OS X. They are also wonderfully designed machine and they work well, but since Desktop aren't machine that you move and hold in your hands every day, this make this design aspect less important and critical. It always matter, just not as much as on laptops.

However, on the laptop side, overall design tend to matter way much more, and in this area, it's more than just Windows vs OS X like on Desktop. Apple laptops are really the only laptops where the trackpad really work as it should. If you look at the MacBook Pro, it is a very portable powerhouse machine with very good battery life, good screen, good I/O, good design, good processing power, etc. These machines are worth every penny.

Honestly, I believe that if you can afford it, the MacBook Pro (retina or not) are the best choice for a student in your situation, and i would consider adding an external display when you are at home. You will also get a way higher resale value in 3 years if you wish to upgrade.
Not really. Unless someone can afford a retina, the macbook air is by far the best option for students. Much faster from factory (SSD.. In fact, the best SSDs on the market), great battery life and great design/portability.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:49 AM   #20
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Performance wise there is no question that your custom build system is going to be faster then any iMac that's available.

Having built PC's for the past 12 years, I really don't see why you would have stability issues with Windows 8, as long as your hardware isn't defective & your not infected with a virus, it shouldn't be an issue..

Now If you plan on using Mac OSX, or If design matters to you, then I'd so go for an iMac.. You can always install Mac OSX on a PC, but not everyone is comfortable doing that, and you'll need to replace that quadro 2000..

Bottom line, If you want a much faster system and only plan on using Windows, your better off with your custom built PC. If you need Mac OSX, and love the design and display of the iMac, I'd go for the iMac..
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:41 AM   #21
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Performance wise there is no question that your custom build system is going to be faster then any iMac that's available.

Having built PC's for the past 12 years, I really don't see why you would have stability issues with Windows 8, as long as your hardware isn't defective & your not infected with a virus, it shouldn't be an issue..

Now If you plan on using Mac OSX, or If design matters to you, then I'd so go for an iMac.. You can always install Mac OSX on a PC, but not everyone is comfortable doing that, and you'll need to replace that quadro 2000..

Bottom line, If you want a much faster system and only plan on using Windows, your better off with your custom built PC. If you need Mac OSX, and love the design and display of the iMac, I'd go for the iMac..
I have found the cause of my hardware issues and I think these can be fixed now, just annoying that this has got to be done on a recent build computer.

As for apple vs windows I like the ability to be able to change parts but I just want my machine to work and be easy to use. Windows has become more and more out of date and windows is just not getting any better. Windows 8 is just not as polished as osx and does not have the same great features that osx has been able to incorporate to make it an more usable up to date operating system.

Mac has a good design, good os, but lacks some software features and comes at a cost.

Windows can be made in to a relatively well designed and layed out system, has a lacking os but is cheaper in price.

So hard to make a decision especially since the iMac is not even available yet. I don't think the MacBook pro is good value for me.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:03 PM   #22
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You know.. You can buy an expensive car, or a cheap car. The expensive one is expensive to fix, if and when it goes wrong. But it's better built so goes wrong less. The cheap car is cheaper to fix when it goes wrong, so no one really gives a crap when it goes wrong, because, well, it's cheap..
It really isn't a whole lot different with computers. Sure, iMacs, or Macs in general are not very user serviceable. But so what? They don't go wrong a whole lot either. I've had 4 or 5 iMacs, and will soon get a 6th. 1 failed HD is about all thats gone wrong in all of them put together (And it's not like Apple made the HD anyway. Thank Western Digital for that).
Well for me neither do Windows machines either. I have been running Windows machines since DOS and can honestly say I have never had more than a blown fuse in all that time. It's probably just as anecdotal as your experience but no less valid. I have invariably found the user to be at fault, whether it be Windows or Apple, but just like driving every one thinks they are the best.

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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:23 PM   #23
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In the end its all about what OS you want/need, imo windows is a far better OS in terms of work plus you can continue to upgrade your machine in the future; you need to notice that imac these days are just glorified laptops.

If you have problems using windows i say you gotta check yo self before yo wreck yourself

I use both systems and happy.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 01:58 PM   #24
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Go iMac or stay with Windows 7.

Windows 8 is a non-starter and there is absolutely zero reason to go from Windows 7 to Windows 8.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 06:36 PM   #25
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I am slowly falling towards iMac. It will be able to everything I want it to do perfectly and in the end it comes down to price. I then have to say is it worth it?

Well there are a lot of architecture firms that use iMacs and they do for a reason. Creative people are more likely to be working on one than somebody who is not. For me it is all about the operating system, the screen and having good hardware to back it up. The iMac has all of these things where windows does not. I don't really care about the whole thinness thing but it does have benefits, one of them I have argued in other threads is increased simplicity and with it increased reliability.

I am surprised that there are not too much pro mac people on MacRumers, but this is a good thing. One sided debate's prove nothing.
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