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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:31 PM   #51
faroZ06
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Originally Posted by dead_smed View Post
I also find it annoying that it's soon going to expire. I have an old Mac Mini that isn't capable of running 10.8 and can't justify buying new hardware just for desktop iMessaging.
Whatever, use iChat. It's clear that Apple doesn't want us to use Messages and iMessage. It's not an evil Apple move, just a stupid Apple move.

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Solution 2: Everyone submit a bunch of Lion bug reports that say that Messages won't work.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipure View Post
This is a lot like the way they took Siri out for iphone 4 users. If you don't buy their new ****, then say goodbye to your app.
****** Apple !
Wait, did your iPhone 4 uninstall Siri once it was removed from the App Store?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroz View Post
This. I used the beta version of Messages on my '06 mbp earlier this year and uninstalled it because I didn't like it. It went right back to iChat.
It's the same thing as iChat except that it has a couple extra features and can use iMessage. You have to enable the buddy list as it is not enabled by default, and once you do, it looks and feels just like iChat.

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Originally Posted by atMac View Post
Yes you can, they shouldn't have released the beta to begin with if they didn't intend to release a final client.
It's better than nothing. Barely, barely better.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:40 PM   #52
MeFromHere
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Originally Posted by 3bs View Post
I can't upgrade to 10.8 because I can't connect to my college wifi on 10.8 so this sucks.
Maybe your college WIFI is broken.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
Once again Apple users have to buy the new crappy OS for something they could have done with the previous OS.

All the more reason to dislike Apple.

What people seem to forget is that Apple is in the business of selling HARDWARE. They are not a software company at all, and they just write some software on the side in order to sell their hardware.

So you can't really expect that they would want to upgrade things in a way that doesn't involve buying new hardware. They aren't really looking to just give away an upgraded experience, they want to sell new hardware.

It is the new hardware that will provide their users with the best possible user experience, and if they let people use old harware, then their users wouldn't get the best user experience.

So it makes a lot of sense that they wouldn't want to just throw software out there that makes the old hardware keep around - its better for everybody if people buy new laptops.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 09:52 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Snowy_River View Post
To the question of Getting compensation for it, they could offer a $5.00 version of it on the app store for Lion users. Thus, it's free if you upgrade, or it costs you a few bucks if you don't.

On the question of "upgrading hardware every year", every computer in my house is ML compatible, the oldest of which is almost five years old. So, it seems that as long as you've upgraded your hardware within the last few years, you'd be fine with this. This does make me curious about what the most recent machine that was Lion compatible but not ML compatible was...

In any event, is this annoying? Sure. Is it somethig to get all bent out of shape about? I don't really think so. I reserve getting all bent out of shape for things like discontinuing Rosetta support. $29 for an upgrade? Sure, until you factor in all the additional software that worked fine but suddenly won't run anymore because of the dropped Rosetta support. Lion cost me >$800 to upgrade...
It's not a question of not wanting to upgrade - I'd love to upgrade my 2008 MacBook to ML! All the sweet iCloud documents syncing with my iPad would be great!

The problem is that any Apple product with an Intel X3100 GPU or a GMA950 isn't supported by Mountain Lion. There are no 64-bit OSX GPU drivers for them (even though there are 64-bit Windows drivers for them, the rest of the system is capable of supporting a 64-bit OS, and Apple themselves even once shipped a buggy pre-release 64-bit driver in an OSX update before dropping it).

For some reason, Apple decided not to put the effort in to finish those 64-bit GPU drivers. Probably this same kind of planned obsolescence crap.

So yeah, I'd love to upgrade to Mountain Lion, but I can't. I did buy another machine (not for that - it's a RMBP and an enormous upgrade), but I'm not going to just chuck that computer away! It's going to my mum, who also has an iPhone and who I usually keep in contact with via iMessage.

Now I have to explain to her that, while she's messaged me on that same computer for months and months before now (and wanted that on her old windows machine), now she's finally getting a Mac but it can't do that stuff because Apple arbitrarily took it away.

Apple doesn't win anything by doing this to us. They just make it harder for us to communicate, and they give my mother a worse impression of Apple; as a company that actively takes away from its customers.

It also puts all Apple's other iCloud services in to question. Can you really rely on them? How long before my Mac stops supporting PhotoStream, for example? Google and Facebook have rock-solid services that you can use from any damned computer, and they never go obsolete. You're better off using Google Talk and Picasa, or Facebook messages and photos, then relying on iCloud. Even if you're all in the Apple ecosystem.

They are novices at the service game. I hope they turn this around quickly. I've got to say, Apple under Tim Cook seems to be doing a lot more of this crap than they ever did under Steve. Sure, products always go out of date - but Apple never dropped their users when they could technically still be supported.

It's worse when it comes to services. Especially when it's a mode of communication like this. Doubly so when they've been using the product for nearly a year and there's clearly no technical hurdle to overcome; It impacts people in a big way.

Last edited by Saladinos; Nov 18, 2012 at 10:00 PM.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Steve.P.JobsFan View Post
FYI: Software Update DOES reinstall iChat when the Messages Beta is uninstalled. Stop saying it doesn't.
There's an uninstall? Where?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:09 PM   #56
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Everyone here should simply email Apple about how they feel and see what happens.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:11 PM   #57
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Apple has been notorious for disregard of backwards support... Let's talk about the fabled OS X 10.6.9 with iCloud support?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:12 PM   #58
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There's an uninstall? Where?
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS4196?v...S&locale=en_US
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:21 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Simplicated View Post
Apple has been notorious for disregard of backwards support... Let's talk about the fabled OS X 10.6.9 with iCloud support?
Yeah, iCloud and iMessage are pointless to me because I dared to not update to the latest Mac OS X version (or as some fool decided to change it to, OS X). Even if I wasn't already in possession of Lion AND Mountain Lion licenses, which I am, I would have no problem paying $30 for the OS update.

It's just the lack of Rosetta that keeps me from updating. Usually, the main reason is that I don't want to use more computing power to do the same thing with a new, more bloated OS, but Lion actually seems to run faster than Leopard and about the same as Snow Leopard. Mountain Lion has a lot of great, new (or from iOS) features that I've been wanting, so it really sucks for me that the lack of Rosetta has to hold me back.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wikus View Post
Once again Apple users have to buy the new crappy OS for something they could have done with the previous OS.

All the more reason to dislike Apple.
I can't imagine what your complaints would be like if Apple never even made Messages.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ellsworth View Post
Everyone here should simply email Apple about how they feel and see what happens.
Or rather, email them about how it's an idiotic decision to not allow iMessage to work on any Macs other than the ones running Mtn Lion. This kind of thing isn't going to convince anyone to buy new hardware or software. Gee, I reeeaallly want that messaging system that very, very few people use /sarcasm
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:30 PM   #60
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Does no one else have issues with it locking up in the background and taking up 3 GB of RAM? It seems to get stall while downloading pictures every once in a while and for some reason it'll just eat up all of my RAM and sit on it until I force close it.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:44 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by faroZ06 View Post

It's the same thing as iChat except that it has a couple extra features and can use iMessage. You have to enable the buddy list as it is not enabled by default, and once you do, it looks and feels just like iChat.

It's better than nothing. Barely, barely better.
Yeah, I remember. I just wasn't a fan of the the appearance, like having all the chats in one window if there was more than one. You couldn't have them separate if you wanted to. Plus for some reason it seemed like every other time I logged in, I'd be in the middle of a conversation and old messages from the previous day(s) would all of a sudden pop up and keep going and going and going...it was strange.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:47 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Sandstorm View Post
Yeah, keep defending Apple. But the fact is, this is just another dick move in a long string of disgusting artificial limitations and forced pushes for obsolescence.
Exactly.

Apple in part got to where it is today by having a lot of vocal customers who sang the company's praises and helped to grow the user base. These moves of forced obsolescence are quickly eroding that good will.

Tim Cook and the others had better be aware that selling phones is a fickle business and the loyalty of desk top users is worth something.

Why remove a feature now?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:52 PM   #63
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Left Behind

Yup, count me as a +1 to that group who thinks this is stupid because of hardware limitations. My MacBook Pro is a few years old, yet was one of the ones cut right before the 10.8 requirements. The only issue my laptop has with Mountain Lion is apparently the graphics card. WTF does that have to do with some of these features? I seriously think Mountain Lion is worth the upgrade, but not for the thousands of dollars it would take me to do so.

What I'd like to see appear in a 10.7.xx update (for those of us "left behind"):

iMessages (out of Beta)
iCloud support (I love how we are stuck with Mobile Me)
Documents in the cloud

These have nothing to do with the graphics card or older modem... (which prevents Air Drop).
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 10:57 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Saladinos View Post
Now I have to explain to her that, while she's messaged me on that same computer for months and months before now (and wanted that on her old windows machine), now she's finally getting a Mac but it can't do that stuff because Apple arbitrarily took it away.

Apple doesn't win anything by doing this to us. They just make it harder for us to communicate, and they give my mother a worse impression of Apple; as a company that actively takes away from its customers.

It also puts all Apple's other iCloud services in to question. Can you really rely on them? How long before my Mac stops supporting PhotoStream, for example? Google and Facebook have rock-solid services that you can use from any damned computer, and they never go obsolete. You're better off using Google Talk and Picasa, or Facebook messages and photos, then relying on iCloud.
1st - they didn't arbitralily get rid of it. They said it was a beta from the start, they never promised it would be available in the future or forever. Yeah it kind of sucks but it's to be expected. The fact that you didn't tell your mom that they might discontinue the service is your own fault.

2nd - as far as the other services, they are released products. Not betas. When was the last time Apple removed a working non-beta product from an old version of an OS? You don't have to worry about the iCloud stuff becuase most of those were features for Lion. NC, Messages, etc are features of ML. I have a 2009 MacBook and I fully expect that the next OS X upgrade will not be compatible with my computer. That's ok for a 4 year computer in my book.

It could be worse. You could have you "start" menu discontinued with an upgrade to Win8. You want to say screwed? Try using Win8. It's missing a lot more feature then any release of OSX ever is.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:03 PM   #65
wikus
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
What people seem to forget is that Apple is in the business of selling HARDWARE. They are not a software company at all, and they just write some software on the side in order to sell their hardware.

So you can't really expect that they would want to upgrade things in a way that doesn't involve buying new hardware. They aren't really looking to just give away an upgraded experience, they want to sell new hardware.

It is the new hardware that will provide their users with the best possible user experience, and if they let people use old harware, then their users wouldn't get the best user experience.

So it makes a lot of sense that they wouldn't want to just throw software out there that makes the old hardware keep around - its better for everybody if people buy new laptops.
A complete lie.

Apple doesnt make any hardware, at all. Just look at their computers:
Processor: Intel
Motherboard: Intel
Memory: Samsung or other
DVD Drive: Sony or other
Video Card: ATI or Nvidia or Intel
LCD screens: Rebranded Samsung

iPhones/iPad?
Camera: Sony
Processor: Samsung
Memory: Samsung
Screen: LG

So where does Apple come in as a hardware company? They dont do squat for hardware. They simply piece things together in R&D and then have Foxconn do the final assembly while Apple does all the... you guessed it, SOFTWARE.

Furthermore, to debunk your logic, Messages was and still is working for Lion. There is absolutely NO reason why Apple can't continue to support Messages for Lion, its simply a piece of software. I'm sure if the developers were told to do so, they could roll out Messages going back to even Tiger. A lot of people are still on Snow Leopard simply because Lion and Mountain Lion were so incredibly botched.

Don't feed the members of Macrumors apple spin, its insulting to their intelligence and development of rational thinking.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:14 PM   #66
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Guess I will hav to go back to communicating via life.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:16 PM   #67
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I'll be the first to admit that I've been aware that this was only a Beta from the start. However, I'd hoped that the finished product would be available for Lion, even if for a small fee ($0.99-$2.99?). Sorry to hear that's not the case, apparently.

Yes, I plan to eventually upgrade to Mountain Lion, but I was not prepared to do so in the next month. That's not my point. I'm frustrated that Apple continues to follow this policy of withholding features to existing hardware/software setups that are perfectly capable of handling them (both on OS X and iOS).

Messages has been working quite well for me on my Mac... Why disconnect it?

On the flip side, perhaps there are new features coming to Messages that just won't work with Lion. Maybe there's a good reason behind this.
Isn't the whole point of developing a new OS is so that you can include new features and charge money for them? I think we may have gotten a little spoiled by the free iOS upgrades every year but that's hardly typical.

Having said that, it was sneaky of Apple to get people hooked on a feature and then withdraw it, forcing them to upgrade. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't need to do any large-scale beta testing for iMessage, which is hardly a complex piece of software relative to what Apple normally develops. The beta program was just an excuse to get people hooked on iMessage.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:19 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by wikus View Post
Motherboard: Intel
Uh, are you obtuse or stupid? Every Apple computer ever made has been released with an Apple designed custom motherboard. I think possibly the one exception to this was the developers preview Intel macs, but those were interim products that were eventually recalled.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:20 PM   #69
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I find it ironic that this announcement comes right after a iMessage outage.... are you sure it's out of beta, Apple?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:24 PM   #70
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Uh, are you obtuse or stupid? Every Apple computer ever made has been released with an Apple designed custom motherboard. I think possibly the one exception to this was the developers preview Intel macs, but those were interim products that were eventually recalled.
Do you know what design means?
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:25 PM   #71
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Apple in a nutshell. They constantly force their users to upgrade software and hardware on baseless reasons. It's part of their philosophy. You want to be part of this, always have the $$ ready.
So...what are you stating? You don't like apple anymore?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tovenaar View Post
Isn't the whole point of developing a new OS is so that you can include new features and charge money for them? I think we may have gotten a little spoiled by the free iOS upgrades every year but that's hardly typical.

Having said that, it was sneaky of Apple to get people hooked on a feature and then withdraw it, forcing them to upgrade. I'm pretty sure Apple didn't need to do any large-scale beta testing for iMessage, which is hardly a complex piece of software relative to what Apple normally develops. The beta program was just an excuse to get people hooked on iMessage.
You could go back to SL version.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:31 PM   #72
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NEWS FLASH. Apple is a technology company that does business in having you buy the newest and latest every year. Smart business move and it's many like these that make them have the largest Market Cap in the world.
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Old Nov 18, 2012, 11:38 PM   #73
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Post Ok, one beta would die....

so shell out $20 bucks and see before if your computer supports the OS. What about when Rosetta dies? Or PowerPC chips?....Obsolescence, I know....but the new, the bleeding edge and the shining toys have a cost....

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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:06 AM   #74
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A complete lie.

Apple doesnt make any hardware, at all. Just look at their computers:
Processor: Intel
Motherboard: Intel
Memory: Samsung or other
DVD Drive: Sony or other
Video Card: ATI or Nvidia or Intel
LCD screens: Rebranded Samsung

iPhones/iPad?
Camera: Sony
Processor: Samsung
Memory: Samsung
Screen: LG

So where does Apple come in as a hardware company? They dont do squat for hardware. They simply piece things together in R&D and then have Foxconn do the final assembly while Apple does all the... you guessed it, SOFTWARE.

Furthermore, to debunk your logic, Messages was and still is working for Lion. There is absolutely NO reason why Apple can't continue to support Messages for Lion, its simply a piece of software. I'm sure if the developers were told to do so, they could roll out Messages going back to even Tiger. A lot of people are still on Snow Leopard simply because Lion and Mountain Lion were so incredibly botched.

Don't feed the members of Macrumors apple spin, its insulting to their intelligence and development of rational thinking.
He said selling hardware. Keyword = selling.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 12:14 AM   #75
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Typical -- How does it feel to be nickel and dimed by Apple. If it were the banks, everyone would be screaming......
I used to love this company, but I am totally sick of them It appears they don't care mcuh about clients these days, at least in the corporate executive suites.
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